Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[markbarbera]

I can guarantee there is no appetite among council to increase the city contribution to this stadium. Any councillor that thinks he or she can get enough support to pass a resolution that sees the costs to the city more than double in order to proceed with a full-sized stadium at WH is delusional.

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...nd-development

From the article:

He said he would like to see Scott Park and the Jimmy Thompson Memorial Pool redeveloped as well as “more community facilities put into the area.”

On a social level, he said the neighbourhood would also benefit from “mixed housing” that could accommodate residents from a variety of backgrounds and levels of income.

While that would be nice, it's far more likely that that space will become a Boston Pizza.

[markbarbera]

Not likely since there's already a Boston Pizza in the area.

And here I was thinking you had dropped that quote in your post to praise the efforts to maintain the community sporting facilities in the plan for the precinct.

Why spread so much pessimistic attitude around? How about using the energy in a positive way and channel it to support a mixed-use approach?

Personally, after reading the article I think it's exciting to see a neighbourhood embrace the project. Just about every other proposed location was met by strong NIMBY resistance by the residents in the area and/or their council representative.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I can guarantee there is no appetite among council to increase the city contribution to this stadium. Any councillor that thinks he or she can get enough support to pass a resolution that sees the costs to the city more than double in order to proceed with a full-sized stadium at WH is delusional.

They got the support for the smaller stadium at the WH. They will get the support for the additional contribution from the city if needed. From what I have heard they already have enough support to do it. That was part of the latest negotiating plan for the WH before the mayor interfered in the process with this IWS proposal. To say that they are a little pissed with the mayor would be putting it mildly. So don't count on the mayor getting co operation with anything he proposes.

As for financing it, it would be a capital cost ammortized over 30 or 40 years with minimal impact on taxes.

[markbarbera]

If there are councillors "pissed off" at the mayor for working out a solution that keeps the project within the original budget scope because it scuttles a councillor's plan to force a solution that would double the city's financial obligations, then that is a perfect example of what is wrong with this city.

Managing to broker a stadium solution that keeps the federal and provincial investment dollars within the city, works for the facility's principal tenant, keeps the city's financial obligations from skyrocketing and also still meets the general objectives of the Future Fund and Pan Am games committee is an achievement that should be celebrated. If this IWS proposal pans out (and there is no obvious reason why it should not) then I say well done, Mr. Mayor.

Imagine what council could achieve if individual councillors put aside the need to fuel their personal egos and actually worked together in a pragmatic way to come up with workable solutions to the challenging issues this city needs to address.

[bigguy1231]

Mark,

He didn't broker anything, all he did was contact Bob Young and the two of them made an announcement. There is no deal or solution.

As for the egos on council, can you blame them. The mayor offered to renovate IWS without even consulting council. It wasn't even on their radar. Anyone who has the arrogance to go behind councils back deserves whatever he gets. He should have contacted councillors after he met with Bob Young and let them know what was happening before they called a news conference to announce the supposed deal. He tried to do an end around on them and got sacked for his troubles. Why do you think he was so quiet at the council meeting. He knew what he had done was the wrong way to do it. He tried to pull a fast one, and councillors have called him on it.

There is a reason that IWS was never under consideration, it was going to cost almost as much to renovate as to build new. That isn't going to change. They have the numbers already. If anything with the additional parking and the cost of replacing well used playing fields it is going to cost even more than previously thought.

[markbarbera]

As was stated in this article in the Spec on January 11, Bratina was made aware that the Ticats wanted to discuss a potential solution Monday afternoon. That evening he called the organization, they made their proposal and discussed the details well into the evening. To be clear, it was the Ticats who made the proposal to renovate IWS, not Bratina. The mayor and the Ticats hammered out a deal late Monday night to be brought to council for approval for consideration.

Early Tuesday morning Bratina contacted the council members to inform them of the development, well in advance of any press conference. From the time the proposal was originally made to the time councillors were informed of the developments was mere hours. Bob Young appeared before council members at the GIC meeting on January 11, less than 24 hours after first discussing IWS with the mayor. If there are council members complaining they were out of the loop they are being disingenuous.

Yes, Bratina was quiet for much of the meeting. He was chairing the meeting for much of the night. From my observations, he held his tongue to allow the council members to speak their mind so to keep the meeting civil and discourage it from escalating into an emotion-driven discussion. I find it interesting that critics of Bratina that were so quick to predict he would be a hot-tempered mayor who'd lead raucous meetings are now critiquing him for keeping quiet and allowing all council to speak their mind during the council meeting.

IWS had not been considered previously because of the limitations of the area around IWS when the original track proposal also required a practice track. When the track events were moved out of Hamilton the space limitations became irrelevant. That is why IWS can now be seriously considered.

With regards to costing the development of the IWS site, everyone involved is well aware of the budget limitations and are planning the project within the constraints of that budget. Rest assured the plan that will be presented to council on the 27th will be costed to be within budget. This is a last-chance scenario for the Ticats and the city to land a 20K+ stadium from the Pan Am Games, and neither party is likely to let the opportunity slip away.

[bigguy1231]

Well it looks like the IWS rebuild is a no go. According to this report in the Spectator, http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...tadium-stumble, the rebuild is going to cost between $154- $174 million.

[bluevue]

should have stayed on focus with WH, and the private money (whitestar group etc) would have covered the shortfall and built a fantastic entertainment district. Young would have come over anyway when he saw the full package and what little he would have had to contribute (given what we now know....location etc was not as big as a deal breaker as he made it out to be). Bob Young without question caused this 'shortfall'. Yes he is entitled as a business owner to play where he chooses, but the WH district wold have made him way more money in the long run. Good luck with this now Cats.

[SteelTown]

Only way to rescue the renovation of IWS is if Ti Cats forks over money, private sector steps up, and/or the province forks over money.

If not we'll have a 5,000 civic stadium at the West Harbour.

[thurmas]

WOW this makes the guys who built Olympic Stadium in Montreal look good!

[drpgq]

I must admit that I'm a bit mystified why this is so expensive (apart from the Ticats non-stadium demands, which seem somewhat silly). I actually don't think a Ticat West Harbour solution would ever have been achievable now.

[Migs]

So let me get this straight, Ivor Wynne will be as expensive as a brand new stadium, but will have poor access, inadequate parking, poor exposure, & be inadequate for Grey Cups? Wow you guys deserve much better than this.

[markbarbera]

The costs are coming out much higher for all venues across the board. Toronto is also griping about their costs doubling since first agreeing to the Games.

Infrastructure Ontario is sole source for venues and is pushing the pricetag up incredibly on building these venues. Who's the watchdog for this agency?

For comparative notes, it is interesting to note that IO is now pricing a new 25K WH arena at $217 million (not including remediation costs)

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

The costs are coming out much higher for all venues across the board. Toronto is also griping about their costs doubling since first agreeing to the Games.

Infrastructure Ontario is sole source for venues and is pushing the pricetag up incredibly on building these venues. Who's the watchdog for this agency?

For comparative notes, it is interesting to note that IO is now pricing a new 25K WH arena at $217 million (not including remediation costs)

Any idea which other projects are projected to go over?

And FYI - http://www.joeycoleman.ca/City_Council_Live.html - Joey Coleman is streaming the meeting live.

[mattgrande]

Naming rights for the first five years:

City gets 90% of the first $500,000 per year
City gets 50% of anything above and beyond $500k.

They assume naming rights will net $750K per year, so best-case scenario the city gets $575,000 per year from naming rights.

Also, and I'm not sure if I heard this correctly, but I believe they just said the Ti-Cats will ask the city for $2M to help host the Grey Cup.

[SteelTown]

Chris Murray: Ticats likely to withdraw request for $18-mil in transitional costs bc of funding gap problem

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

Any idea which other projects are projected to go over?

The aquatic centre built on top of an old landfill is a good bet.

[dennis1]

Let's just cancel this.

[SteelTown]

I'm sure they'll somehow narrow down the funding gap.