The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[josh_cat_eyes]

The new arena/pool/gym etc. in summerside cost 42.5 million. It is said to be one of the nicest in Atlantic Canada. I'd even push the cost up around 50 million when you count the new race track grandstand, and the feild, beach volleyball courts for the Canada Games as well there was a new tennis court constructed. The facility is quite amazing. Truro is lucky to be betting one as well.

As for Moncton, they should have built at Highfield when they built the new YMCA on Vaun Harvey. That way you'd have a pool as well. Add some bowling lanes and a gym, plus you'd have the retail portion remaining of the mall, and build a new 10,000 seat arena. That would be impressive. What if when you built that if it had the casino in it too? That would be the ultimate building/group of buildings

10,000 Seat arena
Casino
10 + Story Office Building (one of the terminal buildings...gutted & expanded?)
8-10 story hotel (the other terminal building...gutted & expanded?)
2 Story Retail mall
4 Story parking garage (one floor underground)
Restaurants
IMAX Theatre
Palladium/Conference Rooms
YMCA:
Lap/Leisure Pool (seating for up to 500-1000 at the lap pool for swimming events)
Gym (Like a school type gym + a weight room)
Bowling Lanes

It still could happen...just half of it wouldn't be justifiable.

[mylesmalley]

If the market could justify all of that, it'd happen. If you get much past the stadium, you're getting into pretty risky turf for the city to be involved.

I'm all for public event venues like coliseums and stadiums, but public IMAX theatres would be pushing it big time. It seems that'd be the only something like that owuld happen.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

If the market could justify all of that, it'd happen. If you get much past the stadium, you're getting into pretty risky turf for the city to be involved.

I'm all for public event venues like coliseums and stadiums, but public IMAX theatres would be pushing it big time. It seems that'd be the only something like that owuld happen.

The retail part of the complex wouldn't be public. It would be likely owned by Crombie REIT as they own Highfield Square anyway. The pool/gym part would be owned by the YMCA and the arena would be owned by the city.

[mylesmalley]

I know what you mean. But my point is that the reason we don't have stuff like an IMAX theatre is because the business case for it apparently isn't there. The city always mentions stuff like that when talking about potential projects, but it seems the only way it would happen would be through some kind of public involvement. If there were a case, the IMAX company would be building one on their own as we speak.

I'm in favour of city-built venues like stadiums and convention centres because, while they in themselves are not always money makers, they can generate good returns for the city by benefiting local businesses, hotels etc.

But again, only if there's a case for it.

[MonctonRad]

A downtown IMAX as part of a redevelopment of Highfield Square to include an arena/events centre is not out of the question.........

Highfield is owned by Crosby REIT
Crosby REIT is a Sobey's company
Sobeys owns Empire Theatres.
Empire Theatres already has an IMAX in Halifax.

If the Crystal Palace Cinemas were renovated for stadium seating and the number of theatres in the complex reduced to 4-6, Empire might look to regain capacity with a new theatre complex in downtown or in Riverview.

An Empire Four complex at Highfield including an IMAX could easily become part of a major redevelopment here.

I think a redevelopment of Highfield Square could easily include:
- an arena with 9-10,000 seats
- convention facilities
- retail space including the existing Bay department store
- Empire 4 theatre complex including IMAX
- renovated Terminal Plaza complex with office and possibly hotel space.
- parking garage
- downtown city transit terminal

A complex like this would allow for tremendous convergence.
Sobeys already owns all this land........

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think a redevelopment of Highfield Square could easily include:
- an arena with 9-10,000 seats
- convention facilities
- retail space including the existing Bay department store
- Empire 4 theatre complex including IMAX
- renovated Terminal Plaza complex with office and possibly hotel space.
- parking garage
- downtown city transit terminal

Perhaps i've been misjudging the size of Highfield, but would it honestly hold that many facilities? A 10K seat arena would take up a fair bit of that Mall, I would think.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Perhaps i've been misjudging the size of Highfield, but would it honestly hold that many facilities? A 10K seat arena would take up a fair bit of that Mall, I would think.

I agree with you completely but we are talking about more than just the existing footprint of the mall.

For example, a couple of the posters here have suggested putting a parking garage on the other side of the railway tracks, connected to the new arena via a pedway. The existing parking area to the east of the Bay could also be converted to a parking garage. This would free up all of the parking lot between the existing mall and the rail right of way for arena construction. Some of the existing mall (and the Bay store) could be preserved for retail and restaurants (this would preserve/promote an active retail presence on Main St.)

There is a lot of space also available to the west of the existing mall, behind Terminal Plaza that could be used for a variety of purposes (convention space, IMAX, transit terminal across from VIA station etc.) Also, when we are talking about hotel/office space, we mean refurbishing/reconverting the Terminal Office complex.

All of this is Sobeys property. I think everything would fit.

Below is a proposal by Josh which roughly shows what I mean.....

[JimiThing]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Perhaps i've been misjudging the size of Highfield, but would it honestly hold that many facilities? A 10K seat arena would take up a fair bit of that Mall, I would think.

Here is a photo I put together showing the existing Highfield Square in Blue and an actual 12,000 Seat stadium pasted on top.
I find this depicts the size of the existing structure very well.

[MonctonRad]

Excellent Jimi, if your dimensions are accurate, this just helps to prove that there is lots of space to play around with at Highfield Square.

[JHikka]

I stand corrected it seems. Good luck.

[MonctonRad]

Mapleton bridge expansion to continue
Published Friday January 22nd, 2010

Province says completion date for bridge widening is Sept. 30
By Craig Babstock
Times & Transcript Staff

Motorists on Wheeler Boulevard and Mapleton Road will notice progress on the Mapleton bridge expansion within the next few weeks.

"The concrete beams are currently being fabricated in Saint John and will be erected in roughly three weeks," says Andrew Holland, director of communications for New Brunswick's Department of Transportation.

"That will be followed by the start-up of deck work which will continue through the spring. The completion date is Sept. 30 and it will be open to traffic at that time."

Holland says the province awarded the tender for the bridge work to Modern Construction and work began last June. Three piers and two abutments are already in place.

The total cost of the bridge work is $2.5 million.

The expansion of the bridge is part of a bigger project that involves the widening and upgrading of Mapleton Road from Highway 2 (the Trans-Canada Highway) to Carson Drive. Because of heavy traffic in that area due to the concentration of retail stores, the city decided to widen Mapleton Road and that work took place over the past couple of years.

From Trinity to the TCH, it's now four lanes with turn lanes, while from Trinity to Carson Drive is five lanes plus turn lanes. The bridge will go from three lanes to six once it's complete.

The city has finished most of its work and is now waiting for the bridge to be done. Sometime between July and September, depending on the provincial work, the city will pave the connections to the bridge, then do a final layer of asphalt from the TCH to Carson Drive, according to Alcide Richard, director of design and construction for the city's engineering department.

"When it's all finished it should be able to handle a lot more volume," says Richard, adding that while it will still be busy during the Christmas shopping season, the peak traffic at that time of year will be much better than what motorists are used to.

The bridge work has been on hold for a while at the request of the city. One lane of bridge traffic will have to be closed for a time to allow the joining of the new section of bridge with the old and the city didn't want the bridge reduced to two lanes during the busy holiday shopping season.

When the new section of bridge is eventually attached to the old, there will be some traffic slowdowns because of the lane closure, but Richard described that as "short-term pain for long-term gain."

He says the Mapleton Road area is expected to keep developing over the next few years with even more businesses opening there and the planning for the road and bridge work took that into consideration.

"We've built this for the future," he says.

Personal comment - It will be interesting to see if commercial development on Mapleton Road ramps up this summer or not.
I think we will see some work on the Mapleton Power Centre this year. Whether we see Best Buy, Bed Bath & Beyond or The Brick however is yet to be seen. I'm sure the lingering recession will still have an effect on development. Across the road at the McManaman's complex, I see that they are now offering a building pad for lease. There is also room for development between McManaman and Costco. Things could get interesting....

[MonctonRad]

Abridged from the Moncton T&T

Intersection improvements planned
Published Saturday January 23rd, 2010

Province, city plan work for busy intersections
By Craig Babstock
Times & Transcript Staff

Two chaotic Moncton intersections are scheduled for major improvements this summer.

The improvements are scheduled for the intersection of Berry Mills Road and Horsman Road and also where St. George Boulevard meets the on- and off-ramps of Wheeler Boulevard at the entrance to Bernice MacNaughton High School.

The Berry Mills and Horsman intersection has become increasingly busy over the past few years because of development in the north end. Many motorists take Horsman to Berry Mills in order to get to downtown Moncton.

Richard says Horsman is going to be re-aligned so it meets Berry Mills at a 90-degree angle. More lanes will be added to Berry Mills to allow proper turn lanes into Horsman.

Also, there will be two left turn lanes coming out of Horsman, leading into two lanes on Berry Mills heading into Moncton, increasing the flow of cars. Opposite Horsman will be a new entrance into the Moncton Industrial Park, facilitating further development.

A traffic light will be put in place to make sure all the vehicles flow in an orderly fashion.

"This is a great solution," says Collins. "It will allow traffic to move more freely from the north end to get to Wheeler Boulevard, downtown and Riverview."

St. George Boulevard is a busy four-lane road and it's particularly hectic around the entrance to MacNaughton, which is right next to the on-ramp to Wheeler. Richard says that entrance to the school was supposed to be a temporary solution, with a permanent entrance constructed through Centennial Place, but residents objected, so the temporary entrance became permanent.

Currently, people heading north on Wheeler exit onto St. George and are supposed to merge into east-bound traffic. However it doesn't always work that way for the many motorists heading into the school. Richard says many do an illegal left turn out of the off-ramp, then zigzag across traffic to get to the school.

"They were making an 'S' movement at peak hours," he says.

The plan is to re-align the off-ramp onto St. George so it's facing the school entrance and put a traffic light in place, allowing people to leave Wheeler and safely get to the school.

"It's always been an issue there and I'm glad we're addressing it," says Collins, adding that the Department of Supply and Service is also planning improvements to the entrance road to the school.

Personal note.......this is more than I was expecting! I knew about the realignment and signalization of the Horsman/Berry Mills intersection and of the new entrance to MID but the addition of two left turning lanes from Horsman onto Berry Mills and two inbound lanes on Berry Mills are quite a pleasant surprise!!

With all this coming to fruition, I have no doubt that the next highway in the Moncton area to see an explosion in commercial growth will be Berry Mills Road. It is the first entrance to the city from the TCH eastbound and lies immediately behind all the growing subdivisions in the northwest end of the city.

There are already rumours of a strip mall (including a Tim Horton's) on the northeast corner of the Berry Mills/Horsman intersection. With the expansion of MID and the new access point to the industrial park, I'm sure there will be much more to follow!

[mylesmalley]

I'm glad to see a completion date for the Mapleton project. It'll make a huge difference in the North End. I can only wonder how much potential development was missed out on while the city and province dragged their feet for years. Certainly if the mall had been started a year before, I'd be done, open, and generating revenue for the city and it's owner.

As for Horesman/Berry Mills. Very glad to hear this as well. However that whole two turn lane thing sounds like T&T fantasy planning to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm aware of only three intersections with more than one turn lane going in the same direction:

-Route 15 ramp eastbound onto Mountain Road
-Amirault st onto Champlain westbound
-Assumption Blvd onto the Gunningsvill Bridge, southbound.

All very busy intersections. Even with an expanded industrial park, I can't see that place getting nearly as busy as the other three any time soon.

Moreover, is that implying that the city plans on widening Berry Mills? It's three lanes from Colishaw to Wheeler. Maybe going to continue that to the new industrial park?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

As for Horesman/Berry Mills. Very glad to hear this as well. However that whole two turn lane thing sounds like T&T fantasy planning to me.

Moreover, is that implying that the city plans on widening Berry Mills? It's three lanes from Colishaw to Wheeler. Maybe going to continue that to the new industrial park?

I don't think it's T&T fantasy planning (although we can be accused of that here on our forum! )

I didn't copy and paste the entire newspaper article but it sounded like the information was coming directly from the DOT and also from an interview with Chris Collins. I think this is in fact the actual plan!

Right now, in the mornings, left turning traffic on Horsman can be quite backed up. In addition, inbound traffic on Berry Mills during the morning rush can become backed up at the traffic lights at the Edinburgh Drive intersection as far back as Horsman Rd. This is a distance of about 1 km!!

Perhaps we are witnessing a case of unusual forward planning on the part of the city and the province. Maybe they expect big things from the MID expansion. Maybe they expect a commercial boom on Berry Mills. Perhaps they just want to encourage people to use Berry Mills rather than Mountain Rd.

In any event, I think that this is really going to happen! This will make a big difference in the northwest end.

[BlackYear]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There are already rumours of a strip mall (including a Tim Horton's) on the northeast corner of the Berry Mills/Horsman intersection. With the expansion of MID and the new access point to the industrial park, I'm sure there will be much more to follow! [/COLOR][/I]

Once the infrastructure on this corner is complete, it wouldn't surprise me to see a Tim Horton at this corner. It wouldn't surprise me to also see an Irving Mainway truck stop/restaurant across the street as well.

These two would definitely start the industrial/commercial boom in this area.

I also believe that they should consider making Berry Mills road from the Edinburgh corner to the highway a four lane. A four lane without a central divider. Rather a four lane with a fifth central lane for left/right turns for future development long this stretch or road.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Budyser

I also believe that they should consider making Berry Mills road from the Edinburgh corner to the highway a four lane. A four lane without a central divider. Rather a four lane with a fifth central lane for left/right turns for future development long this stretch or road.

Four lanes sounds like a good idea, although I really dislike the fifth middle lane for turning either way. They've always seemed semi-dangerous and a bad idea to me.

[love*moncton]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A downtown IMAX as part of a redevelopment of Highfield Square to include an arena/events centre is not out of the question.........

Highfield is owned by Crosby REIT
Crosby REIT is a Sobey's company
Sobeys owns Empire Theatres.
Empire Theatres already has an IMAX in Halifax.

If the Crystal Palace Cinemas were renovated for stadium seating and the number of theatres in the complex reduced to 4-6, Empire might look to regain capacity with a new theatre complex in downtown or in Riverview.

An Empire Four complex at Highfield including an IMAX could easily become part of a major redevelopment here.

I think a redevelopment of Highfield Square could easily include:
- an arena with 9-10,000 seats
- convention facilities
- retail space including the existing Bay department store
- Empire 4 theatre complex including IMAX
- renovated Terminal Plaza complex with office and possibly hotel space.
- parking garage
- downtown city transit terminal

A complex like this would allow for tremendous convergence.
Sobeys already owns all this land........

Sobeys does not own the land. Only the buildings. Land is leased.

[MonctonRad]

Welcome to the forum love*moncton!

I stand corrected. If Sobey's/Empire/Crosby doesn't own all this land then who does? The only other possibility I can think of is CNR.

[mylesmalley]

I think CN still owns the land, and it's on a 99 year lease.


and welcome Love*Moncton!

[MonctonRad]

If this land is owned by CNR, it doesn't really complicate matters very much anyway................at least you don't have to worry about assembling a large parcel of land for the development from multiple different landowners!

I think CN would be a good corporate citizen over all this, especially if they stand to make more profits from an extended or renegotiated lease.