Halifax Stadium Discussion - Page 211

halifaxboyns · #**4201** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 8:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

HRM regional council is a very special crew.

Are they still doing the gratuitous 5-10 minute talks (while arguing with the mayor for more time) without having any real clue what their point is?

It's funny you make that comment because Calgary City council just spent 7 days doing the budget. It wasn't until they were into day 4 (I think?) that some on council realized that procedure limited each councillor to 5 minutes on discussion each. So they started enforcing that and started progressing much faster. Toronto's committee structure limits councillor's to three minutes I think and that's with question and answer, because I know Councillor Vaughn nailed the people doing the core service review on their recommendation to privitize the TTC (great clip on Youtube, makes you wonder about Ford's agenda).

I can't see how a delay is a good thing here...but the head of the Planning/Infrastructure Dept was clear when they approved the $20 million that if it passed, he'd begin talking to private business for investment. He made the point quite clearly and it makes you wonder: Is private business onboard? Does the delay mean that they have someone on board but need time to iron out some things? Or is there no interest?

I wouldn't want HRM to do a survey on CFL interest - but having used a survey company for one of my projects, I can tell you that a balanced online survey can run between 50 to 70,000$. Of course a simple surveymonkey typed survey would be quite a bit less, but not as valid statistically.

someone123 · #**4202** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 8:20 PM**

I highly doubt that the private sector is going to put up the lion's share of $60-70M, with the city kicking in only $20M.

That being said, you can never take these statements at face value. They might say they'll talk to companies because that sounds good but then spend most of their lobbying efforts in discussions with the provincial government and feds, which is probably much more productive. It is reasonable to expect those two levels of government to contribute to a public facility.

The qualified "no" from the provincial government doesn't mean much. They never say "oh yes, we'd love to spend spend spend on a stadium!" because that does not play well in rural areas and weakens their bargaining position with the city. My biggest worry is not that there is no desire to fund this, it's that the time frame is too short. Everybody ultimately supported the Nova Centre but they took far longer than 6 months to commit.

The 5 minute type rules are great. 3 minutes with 16 councillors in HRM regional council would be even better. Some people don't like them but they mean that the speakers have to be prepared and have a clear message -- and if they don't have that they are wasting everybody's time.

halifaxboyns · #**4203** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 8:31 PM**

Halifax gets extra 90 days to raise stadium cash

Canada's ruling soccer body says it will give Halifax only 90 days to come up with the money to build a soccer stadium for the FIFA Women’s World Cup in 2015.

Halifax is vying to be one of up to 10 host cities for the major event, and Tuesday voted to ask the Canadian Soccer Association for a six-month extension to cobble together up to $71 million for a brand new facility.

But on Wednesday, a spokeswoman for the association’s general secretary Peter Montopoli, said 90 days is the most that is feasible to keep Halifax still in the running.

“What we would look at is providing them with 90 days at most as an extension,” Montopoli’s spokeswoman said Wednesday from Ottawa.

“That would put them to March 31,” said the spokeswoman who declined to be named. Instead, Montopoli was expected to speak on the issue later Wednesday, she said.

The 90-day timeline is “realistic” when considering that financing and construction must be completed by Jan. 1, 2015 in order for Halifax to be one of the hosts for FIFA, she said.

The shorter time limit wasn't expected to come as a surprise to Halifax City Hall. Some councillors didn't think the city could come up with enough cash in time.

On Tuesday, councillors, up against a deadline of this month to signify their intent to host the event, voted to ask the association for the extra six months to try to find the extra money.

So far, the city has pledged about $20 million, but the province doesn’t appear interested in footing any money for the facility.

After the councillors’ vote, city staffers were expected to begin the process of finding the right piece of land as a potential stadium site. There are two land parcels on staffers’ radar; one near Dartmouth Crossing and the other in Shannon Park

The rest of the story is here

cormiermax · #**4204** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 8:55 PM**

This is dead.

Waye Mason · #**4205** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 10:21 PM**

RE the SMU site, Bing has great views in their birds eye feature that show the size of the berm the bleacher is currently on much more clearly than Google Maps.

I am not saying this is where a CFL stadium should be built, but in the interim, surely you could put a 8-10-12K bleacher on the west side, and 5-10K temp over the running track on the east side.

Again, as I have said all along, taxpayers are going to end up helping rebuild this stadium anyway, as it is almost condemnable in its current state, so we are going to invest in this site one way or the other.

Keith P. · #**4206** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 10:30 PM**

The sentiment expressed below matches how I feel when I watch Council, especially when they talk about our "domed" stadium (or is it indeed "doomed"?):

We're all doomed

Given the small, uninspired design brief, "doomed" may be the right word. I am starting to come around to Mr. Mason's view that some money be used to fix SMU and the proper large stadium be shelved for a few years.

fenwick16 · #**4207** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 10:45 PM**

This is an image that I posted about 4 months ago (below). A FIFA soccer field requires space around the playing field, which is already wider than a Canadian football field, so it is not possible to put stands much closer to the field than they already are at SMU Stadium.

Empire · #**4208** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 10:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

HRM regional council is a very special crew.

Are they still doing the gratuitous 5-10 minute talks (while arguing with the mayor for more time) without having any real clue what their point is?

They’re all the same....5 min blurb and then a very confused look like I'm not sure anymore just exactly WTF I'm trying to say and still yapping when Kelly shuts off the mic and says "thank you for your comments"....very, very sad. Watts can blab a bit more than the others but her rationale for issues drives me crazy. For example, she ranted and raved over and over how there are so many places where this money could be more helpful....tiny little soccer fields, maintenance on the Forum...on, and on and on. Well it's like this ....that's not the way it works. If it worked like that you would take all of the rec. budget road budget etc. and dump into health care the #1 priority. Watts it just doesn't work like that. You could rationalize that the bike path to Bayers Lake from Ashburn and the new bike corridor from Sackville are a waste of taxpayers dollars when there are playgrounds and sidewalks in Watt's riding that need the money....Watts it just doesn't work like you describe.......get over it!

-Harlington- · #**4209** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 10:51 PM**

From what i read in the metro today the ''domed'' thing they are talking about is more of a bubble for indoor soccer so they can have it as a 300 day a year venue, there are bubbles like this at northcliffe in clayton park and in bedford for tennis

Im not sure if this is in the actual proposal they are working on but the media seems to think it is .

Waye Mason · #**4210** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 11:35 PM**

Well, given that HRM was denied a 6 month extension, and we probably cannot get our case together in the 90 days we are going to get, FIFA is no longer a factor.

Really, we are using the ruse of a strong soccer investment to get a stadium many of the posters on this board hope to convert to a CFL stadium sometime shortly after it is built.

So, a football stadium at SMU as a cheaper interim solution while the case is made for CFL is not out of the question, is it...

thurmas · #**4211** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 11:54 PM**

It's politicians like these that keep the maritimes down compared to the rest of canada. The whole country wants you guys in the cfl but the slugishness, aprehension, self doubt and cheapness is mind boggling to get this little stadium built.

fenwick16 · #**4212** Posted **Dec 7, 2011, 11:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Well, given that HRM was denied a 6 month extension, and we probably cannot get our case together in the 90 days we are going to get, FIFA is no longer a factor.

Really, we are using the ruse of a strong soccer investment to get a stadium many of the posters on this board hope to convert to a CFL stadium sometime shortly after it is built.

So, a football stadium at SMU as a cheaper interim solution while the case is made for CFL is not out of the question, is it...

What does it accomplish? The SMU Stadium could be fixed up for a few million dollars but it won't be big enough for the FIFA tournament or the CFL. Why doesn't SMU just start a fund raising campaign? They could simply restore it to the way it was. I am surprised that they haven't already started requesting donations.

q12 · #**4213** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 12:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

What does it accomplish? The SMU Stadium could be fixed up for a few million dollars but it won't be big enough for the FIFA tournament or the CFL. Why doesn't SMU just start a fund raising campaign? They could simply restore it to the way it was. I am surprised that they haven't already started requesting donations.

Agreed. SMU can piss off and build its own stadium. As a city that will be passing the half millon mark sooner than we know it, we want something for the future that could be expanded for the CFL or other soccer events.

RyeJay · #**4214** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 12:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

Agreed. SMU can piss off and build its own stadium. As a city that will be passing the half millon mark sooner than we know it, we want something for the future that could be expanded for the CFL or other soccer events.

A stadium Halifax wants isn't even being proposed at the moment.

I'm glad we got a 90-day slap in the face.

fenwick16 · #**4215** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 8:36 AM**

The following story indicates that Premier Dexter has not said "no".

(source: http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/1044953)

Quote:

CSA Gives HRM 90 Day Reprieve on Stadium
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Premier Darrell Dexter told reporters yesterday he had more of an information session than an official ask from the municipality.

“I indicated to them so far as I knew there was nothing from the federal government that would look like the contribution to the stadium,” he said, “and that, traditionally, our contribution would be part of a tri-level investment in the project, and that I hadn’t seen anything to suggest that that was going to happen.”

Kelly said the suggestion the province is in if the feds are in is one of the most positive comments he’s heard of late.

Personally, I don't think the stadium idea is dead - I give it a 50-50 chance. The question in my mind is whether a Dant Clayton style stadium in Dartmouth Crossings is a good idea. This is the type of stadium that HRM will be getting - http://jessicaparry.files.wordpress..../td-track1.jpg. It would be a step above the London TD Waterhouse Stadium (all aluminum decking) but not by much. Halifax can do better, even if it is half concrete and half Dant Clayton stands.

Over the past year, HRM hasn't advanced the stadium design; the Events NS proposal from 1 year ago was actually a better proposal, in my opinion - http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/999...umproposal.jpg. I did a sketch of an Events_NS-like stadium on steroids which I posted yesterday - http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/685...19500seats.jpg . I think it could be tweaked to provide a decent sized stadium at a decent price.

I have always considered good public transportation connections to a stadium to be important. When I look at the Halifax Metro Transit route map - http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/S...2011_print.pdf - Shannon Park seems to be better than Dartmouth Crossings (although neither are my first choice).

One thing to consider is that the entire Shannon Park site doesn't have to be cleared and reclaimed in order to fit a stadium in. It wouldn't even need a large parking area in the beginning (initially people could be shuttled from other locations). There appears to be room for a stadium within the actual Shannon Park green-space shown in this link - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rfd...=b&form=LMLTCC. HRM could start building a stadium with just pedestrian bridges over the train tracks instead of an overpass for cars if parking is off-site. Over time, the entire site could be reclaimed for parking, additional recreation facilities and even residential buildings, but after the stadium is built. I think that a Shannon Park stadium is doable - but just go one step at a time.

Waye Mason · #**4216** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 11:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

There appears to be room for a stadium within the actual Shannon Park green-space shown in this link - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rfd...=b&form=LMLTCC.

That is not part of the federal site, that is the field that is part of and behind a working HRSB school. My kids have played soccer there. I don't think it is very likely that a 10-20K seat stadium would be built hard up against a public school, thus depriving it of any kind of field.

The site that is available, ie the unused not handed over portion of Shannon is south of Sioux Drive.

JET · #**4217** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 1:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

That is not part of the federal site, that is the field that is part of and behind a working HRSB school. My kids have played soccer there. I don't think it is very likely that a 10-20K seat stadium would be built hard up against a public school, thus depriving it of any kind of field.

The site that is available, ie the unused not handed over portion of Shannon is south of Sioux Drive.

Waye, I don't think that is correct. The fields are owned by DND.

Empire · #**4218** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 4:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

Waye, I don't think that is correct. The fields are owned by DND.

Who owns the swamp land on the north side of the 111. Looks like an ideal location for a stadium?

Swamp land 1:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax...h&z=17&vpsrc=6

Swamp land 2:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax...12,231.22,,0,0

kph06 · #**4219** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 5:09 PM**

DND owns the school and soccer field land, as well as the swampy area north fo the bridge Empire asked about.

Waye Mason · #**4220** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

Waye, I don't think that is correct. The fields are owned by DND.

Sure, checked ExploreHRM, the land is owned by DND, but the school and fields are operated by HRSB, and about 430 kids go to that school.

I suspect that at a minimum there are contractual obligations between DND, the Province and HRSB around that part of the Shannon site. If we want to tear down that school, and/or leave it with no playing field, then you need to add the cost of a new school and playing field somewhere near by, that is 10-14 million plus land if you don't own it already.

I'm just saying, realistically I don't see that as a easy viable site.