Halifax Stadium Discussion

[q12]

Here is a better view of the grounds, I believe it can be expanded beyond this set-up.


https://twitter.com/DerekBySEA/statu...45908007161856

[JHikka]

Current capacity is 6,200. Can be expanded up to 8,000 under the current agreement IIRC

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by q12

https://twitter.com/RugbyCanada/stat...62450161905664


https://twitter.com/AllanAprilCTV/st...43247187333122

And amazingly when I walked by yesterday it looked like everyone made it in spite of there not being parking within a 30 second walk of the entrance! It was great to see all the people downtown enjoying the game.

[q12]

https://twitter.com/CanPLDesign/stat...65313995538432

[ns_kid]

The Herald reports that Maritime Football has narrowed the potential sites for a CFL-level stadium to two, Dartmouth Crossing and Bayers Lake.

Anthony Leblanc met with CFL execs Friday to review the business plan and said they're negotiating with landowners and details about the two sites will be disclosed when MFL officials next meet with HRM council, possibly on July 17th.

Leblanc is still talking about the integrated Ottawa Lansdowne redevelopment as a model for Halifax. This makes no sense to me, if Bayers Lake and Dartmouth Crossing are truly the sites in play. The Ottawa development is very much an urban site, surrounded by mature neighbourhoods, established business districts and the Rideau Canal, and well served by transit. Leblanc seems to acknowledge the difference, admitting, "there isn’t a site in, call it downtown Halifax, that is sufficient." But he goes on to insist, "there is a true mixed-use development potential". Given that there is already ample low-density mixed-use development in those suburban areas, I am unsure what untapped potential a stadium adds.

Leblanc is right to point to the examples of Las Vegas and Seattle in their bids for NHL franchises. Both were very successful in selling season ticket commitments before there were facilities built or franchises awarded. In my view, MFL is already short of time to build consumer anticipation and support.

[roccerfeller]

They definitely need to get the stadium site right first, but if there aren't urban options then you gotta do what you can... provided it makes sense. It sounds like neither of those sites make sense though? Are any of them feasible? Are the advantageous in the sense of attracting rural New Burnswick and rural Nova Scotia fans?

We're all pulling for you guys! We need a team on the east coast. Being from Newfoundland myself, I would certainly support it and as my eastern team

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

They definitely need to get the stadium site right first, but if there aren't urban options then you gotta do what you can... provided it makes sense. It sounds like neither of those sites make sense though? Are any of them feasible? Are the advantageous in the sense of attracting rural New Burnswick and rural Nova Scotia fans?

We're all pulling for you guys! We need a team on the east coast. Being from Newfoundland myself, I would certainly support it and as my eastern team

Well, either Dartmouth Crossing or Bayers Lake would be attractive to rural NS and NB fans (and likely a lot of metro HRM fans too). The possibility of combining a shopping trip with going to the game, and not having to fight traffic by going on to the peninsula or god forbid downtown, plus likely plenty of parking. With land availability in those two spots being discussed they really become the two most sensible options.

[someone123]

I think these locations, if chosen, will be a mistake. Dartmouth Crossing is already supposedly mixed use and you can already see how interesting it is to visit. Bayers Lake is a traffic nightmare. A suburban location does not guarantee good transportation connections.

Picking a site for people who live in New Brunswick is a bad idea. Most of the ticket buyers will be people from within the region. This is how it works even in Regina. Furthermore driving 3 hours vs. 3 hours plus 20 minutes of city traffic is a very small difference. But for visitors who are staying downtown it will be much harder to get out to one of those office parks, and the appeal of visiting a city is reduced when you have to travel a lot to see the sights (and there's no ride sharing).

I don't know how much public money they will ultimately ask for but I'm worried this project will get the worst of both worlds, and will be led by a private interest group but funded mostly by the public. If it's going to be funded by the public it should be planned like a public infrastructure project to maximize public good over many decades. This means putting it in a really good location even if it takes a bit longer and costs a bit more.

[Colin May]

As old Mr Jodrey often said : "Where does this deal sugar off ?"

[Haliguy]

I agree, not the greatest locations especially if they want to use the Ottawa model at Lansdowne.

[teddifax]

I wonder...there was a rumour a while ago that there was to be a Premium Outlet Mall built in the new area of Bayers Lake. I think that would tie in very well with a stadium and hotels quite well.. This would truly make it a destination...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by teddifax

I wonder...there was a rumour a while ago that there was to be a Premium Outlet Mall built in the new area of Bayers Lake. I think that would tie in very well with a stadium and hotels quite well..

Tanger Outlets is across the highway from the CTC in Kanata and it has had zero impact on visiting the arena or going to games there. People drive in, they go to an event, they leave.

Lansdowne is a great model to follow but it needs to be urban. Neither Dartmouth Crossing or Bayers Lake fit that bill.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Lansdowne is a great model to follow but it needs to be urban. Neither Dartmouth Crossing or Bayers Lake fit that bill.

Well, 30,000 people are not going to walk, bike or bus to an event and that is the only mode of transportation HRM Council would support in an urban location, so that is a non-starter for any proponents.

[MonctonRad]

The Achilles heel of football stadia (versus hockey/basketball arenas and baseball stadiums) is that the regular season (for CFL) only constitutes nine home games, with another 1-2 playoff games thrown into the mix.

This means that for 355 days of the year, a football stadium occupies dead space in the city. Does it make sense to have such a large facility occupy so much space in a downtown core when it is unoccupied so much of the time?

The Metro Centre on the other hand will see 34 Mooseheads home games per year (and up to 16 playoff games), and about 20 NBLC home games per year (plus playoff games). Add in other events (Tattoo, concerts etc), and the Metro Centre could be busy for over 100 nights per year.

A hockey arena therefore can have a significant impact on surrounding businesses (restaurants, pubs and hotels); football stadia not so much.

For this reason I feel strongly that hockey arenas should be downtown (like the Metro Centre and the new events centre in Moncton). Football stadia however can easily be located in less urban environments.

I think Dartmouth Crossing is a fine choice.........

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Achilles heel of football stadia (versus hockey/basketball arenas and baseball stadiums) is that the regular season (for CFL) only constitutes nine home games, with another 1-2 playoff games thrown into the mix.

This means that for 355 days of the year, a football stadium occupies dead space in the city. Does it make sense to have such a large facility occupy so much space in a downtown core when it is unoccupied so much of the time?

The Metro Centre on the other hand will see 34 Mooseheads home games per year (and up to 16 playoff games), and about 20 NBLC home games per year (plus playoff games). Add in other events (Tattoo, concerts etc), and the Metro Centre could be busy for over 100 nights per year.

A hockey arena therefore can have a significant impact on surrounding businesses (restaurants, pubs and hotels); football stadia not so much.

For this reason I feel strongly that hockey arenas should be downtown (like the Metro Centre and the new events centre in Moncton). Football stadia however can easily be located in less urban environments.

I think Dartmouth Crossing is a fine choice.........

When I read this, my first reaction isn't to build it in a less urban setting, but rather to ask why it's worthwhile building such a large and expensive facility that would get so little use in the first place? If it can't also be used for other things, maybe there are better places to invest. I'd have to be pretty rich to build a house I was planning to live in less than 2 weeks a year.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

When I read this, my first reaction isn't to build it in a less urban setting, but rather to ask why it's worthwhile building such a large and expensive facility that would get so little use in the first place? If it can't also be used for other things, maybe there are better places to invest. I'd have to be pretty rich to build a house I was planning to live in less than 2 weeks a year.

There would only be about 10 professional football games per year at the stadium, but there could be other uses for the stadium. The Saint Mary's Huskies could play games there. Perhaps high school playoff football games. There might be a few concerts every year that could make use of a large outdoor facility. Still though, it would be hard to imagine more than about 25 dates per year the stadium would be in use. Outside of CFL games and major concerts, the crowds in the stadium would be pretty small.

It's a Catch-22 situation. Beyond CFL football, the stadium will be little used, but if you want a CFL team, you need to have a stadium. There is no way around this.

A football stadium downtown would be a waste of valuable real estate with little benefit for area merchants. Even during the football season, it would only be in use once every second week. Better to put the stadium out in Dartmouth Crossing where it won't suck the oxygen out of the surrounding neighbourhood........

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There would only be about 10 professional football games per year at the stadium, but there could be other uses for the stadium.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=6062

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=6064

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=5477

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=5988

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There would only be about 10 professional football games per year at the stadium, but there could be other uses for the stadium. The Saint Mary's Huskies could play games there. Perhaps high school playoff football games. There might be a few concerts every year that could make use of a large outdoor facility. Still though, it would be hard to imagine more than about 25 dates per year the stadium would be in use. Outside of CFL games and major concerts, the crowds in the stadium would be pretty small.

Certainly Saint Mary's would move their games there. You would also get the AUS playoff there. Concerts and music festivals would be viable for HRM finally. You could also get the Mooseheads to do a "Winter Classic" type outdoor game there. Rugby and soccer games would likely occur. Aside from all that, it could easily be used for exhibitions, trade shows, auto shows, and various other outdoor events. I have no idea the number of paying dates it would attract but certainly more than 25. Now, whether that makes money I have no idea.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by elly63

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=6062

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=6064

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=5477

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=5988

Send your resume to the promoters - they and HRM need a miracle worker...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Send your resume to the promoters - they and HRM need a miracle worker...

And you need to stop to stop making up worst case scenarios against it because it isn't a soccer stadium. You'd be all for it, if it was.