Could Expos return to Montreal?

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

i wish we weren't like this.

we remind me of a troubled couple on a long car trip. it's like, everyone (both people and groups of people such as cities or provinces) has their little vanities, their little identities and conceits. they often have a grain of truth (montreal and quebec do take cultural cues from france, toronto does offer an incredibly multifaceted human experience), but as we get older, you know, sometimes we depend on them a bit to much, or perhaps exaggerate their appeal.

among friends, in a convivial setting, these are generally forgiven and even appreciated. "oh, you know, tom's always considered himself bit of a wine... buff (insert half-smirk)."

among people who are tired of each other, however, they grate and grind and are resented. to your loser husband with his failed schemes and maxed visas, you won't give an inch concerning his self-identification as an "entrepreneur." to your flitty wife, with her dubious accent and grating expressions, you won't grant even a layer of "bohemian charm."

fucking canada, eh?

Canada without this pissy bickering wouldn't be Canada at all

[Gerrard]

Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown

I wonder in a new ballpark in Toronto would bring more fans out to games?

Just not in April. The Dome is heinous as a ball park but no one is going line up to pay the 500 plus million to build a real ballpark.

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Movies: Obviously the fact that France dominates the Francophone movie industry skews those stats, but Quebecers flock to the theatres for the latest Hollywood flick in droves as well. If Britain dominated the English language movie industry, the same would happen in English Canada.

Cuisine: Maybe, but again I'd say Montreal cuisine is certainly more "Canadian" centric than Toronto or Vancouver by a mile

Literature: Again, French is the dominant language, and obviously French literature would be more widespread than English and therefore more European literature sold as a result.

Fashion: I will give you this one

Music: On the English stations, the programming is generally the same as the rest of Canada. On the French stations, obviously French artists would be more prevalent than American

Sports: The two most popular teams in Montreal (Habs and Als) play sports that largely developed in the city of Montreal itself, and soccer is bigger in Toronto and Vancouver than Montreal

A few huge misconceptions here. You assume that you can just replace 'American' with 'French (from France)' and everything's equal. It's not.

Cinema: Quebeckers do flock to Hollywood blockbusters but they also flock to their own movies. Domestic cinema is big here and at any given time there will be one or two Québec movies in the top ten. They often make it to number one. There are also French movies but they play a less significant role than either Hollywood or Québec movies. There's even a 10 day festival in February devoted to Québécois films, both french and english. http://rvcq.com/festival-28e/a-propos There is no equivalent in Canada as few people, in Canada, watch Canadian films. TV is even more local with most of the top rated shows being produced here, not in France or the U.S.

Literature: Quebeckers read books from everywhere, as do Canadians. Whatever is translated is read. While French authors are popular, Québec has a long literary tradition (in both english and french) and I would hazard a guess that local authors are more popular than French (ignoring the classics). There is, of course, a festival which attracts over 120,000 people every year. It's the largest literary festival in North America. http://www.salondulivredemontreal.com/

Music: Music transcends language (U2 just built a temporary stadium and sold out 2, 80,000 seat shows in Montréal). Again, although there are some very popular artists from France, the most popular are from here, in french or english. It has nothing to do with "all artists that aren't english are from France".

Cuisine: Traditional Québec cuisine is heavily influenced by French, Irish and Native cuisine. There are many restaurants that serve Québec cuisine but I'm not sure that I've ever seen a 'Canadian' cuisine restaurant.. anywhere. I'm not sure if they exist, but I can go anywhere in the country and see Montréal-style bagels, smoked meat, steak spice, etc. and Québec cheese and poutine being advertised (although poutine is now, apparently 'Canadian').

Sports: Soccer is not just European, it's also the most popular sport in Africa and South/Central America. Montréal goes completely mental during World Cup and set all Canadian attendance records for CONCACAF and the FIFA U-20- and soccer in general. I predict that attendance for the upcoming FIFA Women's World Cup will be outstanding here.

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I disagree with with the "baseball cities" point you make. The cities in the US where baseball is most popular are New York, Boston, Philly, San Francisco and LA. These are some of the most "vibrant" cities in North America. I'm not saying that baseball leads to vibrancy - simply an observation.

Oh I agree, I made my point badly. What I was trying to say is that baseball will not make a vibrant city any more vibrant, nor will it make a dull city any more vibrant. It's kind of.. vibrant neutral. As a spectator sport, it's one of the least vibrant.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

Interesting question... Rogers Centre isnt bad, but it still has the feel of a multi-purpose park. My main complaint with that place is the heavy-handed security. Last fall when I was there they threatened to kick out a guy in my section who was heckling the outfielder - which is pretty normal at a ballgame. Of the ballparks I've been to, I would rate them as follows:

1. Fenway - a bare bones park, but the nostaglia and atmosphere is amazing
2. Safeco - an awesome modern retro stadium, has all the luxuries, great food selection, amazing sightlines
.
.
.
3. Skydome
4. Big O

I think the main reason for the Jays attendance woes is the fickle nature of the Toronto sports market. The Leafs are always number 1, and it seems like one other team is the flavour of the month at a given time. Right now it's TFC, before that it was the Raptors, the Jays in the early 90s, Argos in the 80s and so on. I think that the Jays are on the right track again, Anthoupolous is doing a great job setting up for a pennant run next season or the year after - which will do the most to bring more fans down.

Its odd how Rogers Center is still looked at as "new" (hardly). Its a awkward park and does still have a multi-purpose feel. When the park is full its is a amazing experience. When its empty and the roof is closed I feel like I am in a hospital emergency waiting room.

If Toronto shapes up the faults of Rogers Center are quickly forgotten.

LOL @ Vancouver. What a folly of a sports town.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Immigration is not really the determining factor. Quebec and Montreal tend to be very "Euro-philic". A lot of people in Quebec - and I am not talking about immigrants - think that anything that is European (movies, cuisine, literature, fashion, music, sports, etc.) is automatically better than anything North American. There is a lot of this "posing" that goes in Quebec.

Immigration is a huge factor. Cities with massive immigrant populations tend to have immigrants that don't assimilate to Canadian culture, but stick to their old world culture. Little Italy in Toronto? They don't even give Canadian sports like football or baseball a chance. They just stick to soccer because everyone in their neighbourhood is from Italy too so why bother? Go to places like Halifax, Regina, or Edmonton and they tend to take up Canadian traditions. When people socialize they need to do what other people are doing: in smaller cities with less immigration that means Canadian pastimes.

Those Quebecers may like to think of themselves as European, but they're thoroughly north American. They're holding on to this myth to feel different or unique, but it's just a myth. I'm from Europe and there's little European about Quebec society or culture. It's 100% Canuck. Having old buildings from 100-200 years ago doesn't make you European. Halifax has those too. So does Boston and Mexico City.

I don't understand the self loathing at all. Canadians have a lot to be proud of culture wise. Btw, some Torontonians do it too: they view their own culture as 2nd rate. It's really sad actually. I prefer Canadian culture to European: sports, music, lifestyle, architecture, food, etc.

Why does it take an immigrant to point these things out to Canadian born?

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Immigration is a huge factor. Cities with massive immigrant populations tend to have immigrants that don't assimilate to Canadian culture, but stick to their old world culture. Little Italy in Toronto? They don't even give Canadian sports like football or baseball a chance. They just stick to soccer because everyone in their neighbourhood is from Italy too so why bother? Go to places like Halifax, Regina, or Edmonton and they tend to take up Canadian traditions. When people socialize they need to do what other people are doing: in smaller cities with less immigration that means Canadian pastimes.

Those Quebecers may like to think of themselves as European, but they're thoroughly north American. They're holding on to this myth to feel different or unique, but it's just a myth. I'm from Europe and there's little European about Quebec society or culture. It's 100% Canuck. Having old buildings from 100-200 years ago doesn't make you European. Halifax has those too. So does Boston and Mexico City.

I don't understand the self loathing at all. Canadians have a lot to be proud of culture wise. Btw, some Torontonians do it too: they view their own culture as 2nd rate. It's really sad actually. I prefer Canadian culture to European: sports, music, lifestyle, architecture, food, etc.

Why does it take an immigrant to point these things out to Canadian born?

Lol! The entire "Québec is European" myth is almost entirely a construct of American travel writers. I don't know how many articles I've read that tout "Paris without the jet lag" or "Europe on a budget". Nobody here thinks that and if you were ever to make the comparison you'd be laughed off as a tourist or a newcomer from somewhere else in Canada. Don't blame Quebeckers because nobody can figure out why they're different yet similar in so many ways- then chalk the differences up to being "more European". Believe me though: there are significant differences between Québec and ROC., more than just older buildings and different language. If you haven't figured that out by now then you probably never will.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Those Quebecers may like to think of themselves as European, but they're thoroughly north American. They're holding on to this myth to feel different or unique, but it's just a myth.

I am a Québécois and I don't need anyone to tell em who I am and who I am not!

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by habfanman

A few huge misconceptions here. You assume that you can just replace 'American' with 'French (from France)' and everything's equal. It's not.

Cinema: Quebeckers do flock to Hollywood blockbusters but they also flock to their own movies. Domestic cinema is big here and at any given time there will be one or two Québec movies in the top ten. They often make it to number one. There are also French movies but they play a less significant role than either Hollywood or Québec movies. There's even a 10 day festival in February devoted to Québécois films, both french and english. http://rvcq.com/festival-28e/a-propos There is no equivalent in Canada as few people, in Canada, watch Canadian films. TV is even more local with most of the top rated shows being produced here, not in France or the U.S.

Literature: Quebeckers read books from everywhere, as do Canadians. Whatever is translated is read. While French authors are popular, Québec has a long literary tradition (in both english and french) and I would hazard a guess that local authors are more popular than French (ignoring the classics). There is, of course, a festival which attracts over 120,000 people every year. It's the largest literary festival in North America. http://www.salondulivredemontreal.com/

Music: Music transcends language (U2 just built a temporary stadium and sold out 2, 80,000 seat shows in Montréal). Again, although there are some very popular artists from France, the most popular are from here, in french or english. It has nothing to do with "all artists that aren't english are from France".

Cuisine: Traditional Québec cuisine is heavily influenced by French, Irish and Native cuisine. There are many restaurants that serve Québec cuisine but I'm not sure that I've ever seen a 'Canadian' cuisine restaurant.. anywhere. I'm not sure if they exist, but I can go anywhere in the country and see Montréal-style bagels, smoked meat, steak spice, etc. and Québec cheese and poutine being advertised (although poutine is now, apparently 'Canadian').

Sports: Soccer is not just European, it's also the most popular sport in Africa and South/Central America. Montréal goes completely mental during World Cup and set all Canadian attendance records for CONCACAF and the FIFA U-20- and soccer in general. I predict that attendance for the upcoming FIFA Women's World Cup will be outstanding here.

You talk like Quebec and Canada are seperate entities. My post was responding to a person who stated Quebecers prefer the European versions of all those things to North American, which obviously isn't true. Most of the European influences in all those areas is from France in Quebec, hence why I was constantly referencing France. I am well aware of the Quebec film and music industry, I was comparing North American and European influences.

Oh, and there are a ton of "Canadian" restaurants out there, literally every city has them.

And Quebec is in Canada

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Immigration is a huge factor. Cities with massive immigrant populations tend to have immigrants that don't assimilate to Canadian culture, but stick to their old world culture. Little Italy in Toronto? They don't even give Canadian sports like football or baseball a chance. They just stick to soccer because everyone in their neighbourhood is from Italy too so why bother? Go to places like Halifax, Regina, or Edmonton and they tend to take up Canadian traditions. When people socialize they need to do what other people are doing: in smaller cities with less immigration that means Canadian pastimes.

Those Quebecers may like to think of themselves as European, but they're thoroughly north American. They're holding on to this myth to feel different or unique, but it's just a myth. I'm from Europe and there's little European about Quebec society or culture. It's 100% Canuck. Having old buildings from 100-200 years ago doesn't make you European. Halifax has those too. So does Boston and Mexico City.

I don't understand the self loathing at all. Canadians have a lot to be proud of culture wise. Btw, some Torontonians do it too: they view their own culture as 2nd rate. It's really sad actually. I prefer Canadian culture to European: sports, music, lifestyle, architecture, food, etc.

Why does it take an immigrant to point these things out to Canadian born?

Immigrants have always had difficulty assimilating into Canadian culture for the first generation, even in Halifax or Regina. But the second generation is almost fully immersed in Canadian culture and will have very few cultural differences from other Canadian kids, and thenceforth enjoy "Canadian" things.

The only one here calling Quebec European is you. Quebecers don't consider themselves European, they consider themselves Canadian (60% of them anyway) or Quebecois.

You won't get an argument out of me for the last one. I am a strong proponent of Canadian culture and I thoroughly enjoy it and prefer it to American by a landslide. Though you are right far too many of us have an inferiority complex.

[telyou]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sydney is most vibrant compared to what?!?!

Compared to the more than 100 cities i've visited. Hence why i said IMO.

Originally Posted by habfanman

There is, of course, a festival which attracts over 120,000 people every year. It's the largest literary festival in North America. http://www.salondulivredemontreal.com/

Eh, it's not the largest literary festival in NA. Word on the Street is. And IFOA is still larger then Salon du Livre.

Originally Posted by habfanman

Montréal goes completely mental during World Cup and set all Canadian attendance records for CONCACAF and the FIFA U-20- and soccer in general. I predict that attendance for the upcoming FIFA Women's World Cup will be outstanding here.

Maybe it had something to do with the fact they had the largest stadium? And the 2 knockout stage games they hosted had an average attendance of 43,000, far from being sold out.

[telyou]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Why does it take an immigrant to point these things out to Canadian born?

I've been asking myself that same question since my second day in Canada.

[thurmas]

Wasn't this subject supposed to be about baseball. Last time I checked Tim Raines didn't care how many french language films Quebecers see in a year.

[Rico Rommheim]

What the hell. I click on this thread and you guys are discussing literary festivals and the Quebec box office. Then I clicked on the proposals thread and we're talking about the congress and the state of the US economy. I think I'll go get me some beers instead.

[PhilippeMtl]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Vancouver also has the longest tradition of supporting soccer, much longer than Montreal.

Not sure where you get this fact... Maybe you don't know about Montreal Manic; the average game attendance was more than 20 000 with some sell-out ( 58 000) at the Big O.... 30 years ago!

Whitecaps was a huge team back in these days, but I don't think one city has a longest tradition compare to an other...

Both cities have a rich ''soccer'' history for North American cities...

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by telyou

I've been asking myself that same question since my second day in Canada.

Ya, ain't that the truth. People often don't recognize things about themselves that are glaringly obvious to outsiders. Baseball's a Canuck sport, so it's only fitting that this country get more than the 1 MLB team it presently has. Let's see a return of MLB to Montreal, then its arrival in Vancouver.

[jlousa]

We don't want it in Vancouver, we'll gladly send our team to Alberta in exchange for some beef and barrels of oil.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by jlousa

We don't want it in Vancouver, we'll gladly send our team to Alberta in exchange for some beef and barrels of oil.

Speak for yourself. Plenty of people (myself included) would like to see major league baseball come to Vancouver.

[Metro-One]

It would satisfy Canada's largest Japanese population, haha! My wife included

[blacktrojan3921]

I think it's very likely that Montreal would get itself an expansion team in the future if they ever built themselves a brand new ballpark.