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  #2761  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Ah yes, let's keep pretending Trump never denounced anything

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I wonder if the strategy of talking about Russia and Nazis for 4 years is really going to pay off for the Democrats. It seems there are more pertinent issues to keep in the spotlight - not the least of which are climate change and the economy.
His own party is denouncing him over his statements about Charlottesville. As is much of Conservative media, including James bloody Murdoch http://www.avclub.com/article/fox-ce...ocialMarketing.

Anyways, why wouldn't the Democrats run on issues like Trump's tacit support for Neo-Nazis or the criminal investigation into his dealings with a hostile foreign power? First, those are absolutely insane things to be connected with a President, sitting or former. Insane. Second, he hasn't accomplished a single legislative achievement to run against. He's a lame duck president with all branches of government under his party's control. There has never been a failure in the oval office so blindingly apparent to anyone willing to pay attention. Just ask one of the most conservative politicians in the Senate http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...41751?lo=ap_a1
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  #2762  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:12 AM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
It's more than that. His excuse stating the anti fascist protesters inflamed the situation and were equally to blame was praised by David Duke and also used by white supremacists before he took the podium. His talking points are their talking points. His xenophobia is their xenophobia. They embrace Trump over any Republican candidate before him. He welcomes it and gives them tacit support.
Well, the counter protesters did attack the white supremacists as they were making their way towards the square. As others pointed out, the white supremacist did have a permit while the counter protesters didn't.

As for tacit support of white supremacy, one of his closest aids and son in law is Jewish. Guess he's suffering from cognitive dissonance.
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  #2763  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JM5 View Post
Well, the counter protesters did attack the white supremacists as they were making their way towards the square. As others pointed out, the white supremacist did have a permit while the counter protesters didn't.

As for tacit support of white supremacy, one of his closest aids and son in law is Jewish. Guess he's suffering from cognitive dissonance.
Added to the list. Check.
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  #2764  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 1:22 PM
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I don't think Trump is a white supremacist, or even close to it*, but I think he does enjoy fanning the Culture Wars. And by him I mean likely Bannon. I'm not sure Trump is fully aware of what he's doing at all times.

*In general I think Trump looks down at most people that he sees as below him. There's probably some racism here, but not targeted in the way neo-nazi groups or the KKK are. The motivations are probably more aligned with classism.
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  #2765  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 1:39 PM
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I don't think Trump is a white supremacist, or even close to it*, but I think he does enjoy fanning the Culture Wars. And by him I mean likely Bannon. I'm not sure Trump is fully aware of what he's doing at all times.

*In general I think Trump looks down at most people that he sees as below him. There's probably some racism here, but not targeted in the way neo-nazi groups or the KKK are. The motivations are probably more aligned with classism.
I don't think he's even much of a racist or anti-Semite, by the standards of older privileged white American men. The "great" America he claims to want back, however, would be a decidedly white-dominated society (or, if I'm wrong, he has done a supremely poor job of explaining how it would not be). He seems to think, based on comments this week, that everybody having a job would be the panacea. While it wouldn't hurt, I don't think he's ever tried to elaborate on how this would further equality in his country or what that more perfect union would look like.
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  #2766  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
I don't think Trump is a white supremacist, or even close to it*, but I think he does enjoy fanning the Culture Wars. And by him I mean likely Bannon. I'm not sure Trump is fully aware of what he's doing at all times.

*In general I think Trump looks down at most people that he sees as below him. There's probably some racism here, but not targeted in the way neo-nazi groups or the KKK are. The motivations are probably more aligned with classism.
I think he knows exactly what he's doing when he throws red meat to the white supremacists. He also is rabid in his Islamophobia and hatred of Syrian and other majority Muslim immigrants. And let's not forget how he feels about Mexicans... I'm just waiting for the n word tape from the Apprentice to drop.
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  #2767  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JM5 View Post
Well, the counter protesters did attack the white supremacists as they were making their way towards the square. As others pointed out, the white supremacist did have a permit while the counter protesters didn't.
It may be coincidental, but I've noticed that you value following procedures and rules over adhering to some underlying morality.

For example, the white supremacists have the wrong morals: ultimately, they want to subjugate - and perhaps even annihilate - people of colour in the United States. But they applied for a marching permit, and the counter-protesters, whose position is that the white supremacists are wrong (their counter-position isn't to subjugate or kill white people) didn't, so, in your view, the counter-protesters were in the wrong.

Same with your position on the Confederate states. The Confederacy was all about owning human beings as property, not based on the traditional debt slavery with the right to manumission of ancient times (also morally wrong, but not quite so morally wrong), but a pseudo-scientific belief in racial inferiority that was already morally reprehensible in the 1850s. But, as you posit, because the North attacked them when they threatened to secede, they had the right to defend themselves, and the South had a legitimate fight on their hands.

If we try to be as objective (impossible, but we should try), certain human rights are universal and sacrosanct. Human beings are not inferior based on a pseudo-scientific concept; killing or subjugating other people based on your belief in that person's inferiority is also wrong. I don't think these things can be contested. If groups believe these to be true, they are wrong. Laws and procedures are supposed to exist in the service of preserving those human rights, not the other way around. So you are prioritizing the wrong thing.

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As for tacit support of white supremacy, one of his closest aids and son in law is Jewish. Guess he's suffering from cognitive dissonance.
That's a red herring. Judaism/anti-semitism isn't what's at issue in Charlottesville.
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  #2768  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:23 PM
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Yeah, one thing that's always bothered me about the sanctification of Rosa Parks is that she was in clear violation of a city ordinance.

I mean, you can't argue against this. It's an undeniable fact.
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  #2769  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:28 PM
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Yeah, one thing that's always bothered me about the sanctification of Rosa Parks is that she was in clear violation of a city ordinance.

I mean, you can't argue against this. It's an undeniable fact.
Yep. More succinct than I could have put it.

Trump's permit comment said it all to me. Everything with him and his defenders is about technicalities. Well technically slavery was legal back in the day. Does that make those who fought it the bad guys? Technically segregation was the law too. I guess Martin Luther King Jr. was a criminal. Or if you're Rob Anders Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

Reminds me of this quote:

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  #2770  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:45 PM
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I also just realized that given the number of times Donald Trump has filed for bankruptcy, he might have actually wound up being a slave in Ancient Greece. But not in the Antebellum South, of course.
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  #2771  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Yeah, one thing that's always bothered me about the sanctification of Rosa Parks is that she was in clear violation of a city ordinance.

I mean, you can't argue against this. It's an undeniable fact.
Am I a bad person because this made me laugh?
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  #2772  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Yeah, one thing that's always bothered me about the sanctification of Rosa Parks is that she was in clear violation of a city ordinance.

I mean, you can't argue against this. It's an undeniable fact.
Touché.
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  #2773  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Am I a bad person because this made me laugh?
You want bad person? Yesterday, watching the breaking news from Barcelona, my first thought was "that's appalling". My second thought was "oh good, CNN is not talking about Trump"!
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  #2774  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:02 PM
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Media reporting that Bannon is "out" at the White House. The fun just never stops, although in this case it seems a very good thing.
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  #2775  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JM5 View Post
As others pointed out, the white supremacist did have a permit while the counter protesters didn't.
Wrong. The counter-protestors had a permit.
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  #2776  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Am I a bad person because this made me laugh?
Considering the satirical intent, and the fact that it was moi who made you laugh, I'm pretty sure you're not a bad person!
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  #2777  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Media reporting that Bannon is "out" at the White House. The fun just never stops, although in this case it seems a very good thing.

I wonder if Bannon will turn on Trump now? He seems the type to document everything that has been said in case he needs revenge in the future. It will be a fun ride, that's for sure.
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  #2778  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:12 PM
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It just gets scarier and scarier:

Quote:
US government demands details on all visitors to anti-Trump protest website
Privacy advocates call warrant for IP addresses of 1.3 million people who visited inauguration protest website an unconstitutional ‘fishing expedition’

The US government is seeking to unmask every person who visited an anti-Trump website in what privacy advocates say is an unconstitutional “fishing expedition” for political dissidents.

The warrant appears to be an escalation of the Department of Justice’s (DoJ) campaign against anti-Trump activities, including the harsh prosecution of inauguration day protesters.

On 17 July, the DoJ served a website-hosting company, DreamHost, with a search warrant for every piece of information it possessed that was related to a website that was used to coordinate protests during Donald Trump’s inauguration. The warrant covers the people who own and operate the site, but also seeks to get the IP addresses of 1.3 million people who visited it, as well as the date and time of their visit and information about what browser or operating system they used.

The website, www.disruptj20.org, was used to coordinate protests and civil disobedience on 20 January, when Trump was inaugurated.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rant-dreamhost
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  #2779  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:14 PM
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^more "fresh air" from that fascist and his deplorable administration.
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  #2780  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Media reporting that Bannon is "out" at the White House. The fun just never stops, although in this case it seems a very good thing.
The latest blast of "Fresh Air" from the Fright House. Bannon is Banned:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/steve...ry?id=49295772
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
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