Why don't Australian cities get more love and respect here?

[Commentariat]

Originally Posted by The North One

True but those are usually exceptions when it comes to the newer western world. (I can really only think of San Jose as a "boring" multicultural city)

But I think a big part of the lack of respect or admiration of aussie cities has to do with the fact that the country still hasn't graduated from being Briton's isolated little pet/child and has little influence on the world.

Thanks for proving my point

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by The North One

I think Canadian cities are much less generic and more interesting than Australian ones. I mean does Australia even have significant non-white populations or immigrants? It just seems sterile and boring.

I think the British influence is also much stronger than in Canada which I think is a negative.

So much to hit:

What is up with some people in the West who love to hate their own cultures?

Non-white population makes a city less boring? Is that the only measure? Or is it diversity of skin color that only matters to you? Places like Japan, South Korea, and Switzerland would be incredibly boring places to you? That is the lamest reasoning for making a place "boring" or not.

Why is British influence a negative?

[Shawn]

I finally had the pleasure of visiting Melbourne a few weeks ago and man, what a place. I can absolutely understand the Boston-Melbourne Sister City connection.

I work with heaps of Aussies, and I have come to believe that Australians are actually a lot more like Americans than Canadians are in many ways. This is something I didn't really see on my own until I heard it repeatedly from Japanese and Korean coworkers: Americans and Australians have very similar "bright, cheery, friendly, outgoing" dispositions and are "charmingly and convincingly confident all the time." Whereas the perceptions of Canadians and Brits is more along the lines of "calm, collected, emotionally under control" and come across as "reserved and less approachable but more reliable" than Americans and Aussies.

Broad, broad stereotypes there, but I feel a good amount of truth too.

[Nouvellecosse]

There several things I love about Australian cities. I love that they seem to have zero surface parking in or even near the CBD, that the highrises seem to be better integrated into the urban fabric rather than having large set backs and/or podiums (both of which I hate) and that despite having suburban sprawl, the sprawl doesn't seem to have the huge expanses of parking we have in NA and it doesn't seem to have weakened the CBDs. If anything, the CBDs seem stronger for the sprawl, almost as if people come to the city seeking relief from suburban banality while in NA, only the strongest cities have resisted their CBDs from being diminished by suburban shopping malls and office parks and even most of them have too much in the way of massive parking garages.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by The North One

The Australian population is over 90% white so I'm guessing any diversity is few and far between.

Sydney and Melbourne are quite diverse.

[isaidso]

This might be more about Australia having a sky high profile in the UK that's completely out of whack with what's actually there. If you didn't know any better one might assume Australia was a global super power with 300 million people.

In north America, people have a good impression of Australia but it's profile here is where you'd expect it to be. We treat Australia like we do South Korea, Italy, or Mexico. Australia is actually the smallest of those I listed. For an Australian or Brit, this might come off as not having love or respect for Australia (or Australian cities) but it's really a fairer representation of where Australia is in the world. We like Australia but aren't obsessed with the place the way the Brits are.

[Phil McAvity]

Thi mijor seetees in Awestrilia ah Seednee, Melbun, Brizbin, Peuth and Edilide but I blime thi Awestrilian icksent awn ah inability te undistand thim.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I finally had the pleasure of visiting Melbourne a few weeks ago and man, what a place. I can absolutely understand the Boston-Melbourne Sister City connection.

I work with heaps of Aussies, and I have come to believe that Australians are actually a lot more like Americans than Canadians are in many ways. This is something I didn't really see on my own until I heard it repeatedly from Japanese and Korean coworkers: Americans and Australians have very similar "bright, cheery, friendly, outgoing" dispositions and are "charmingly and convincingly confident all the time." Whereas the perceptions of Canadians and Brits is more along the lines of "calm, collected, emotionally under control" and come across as "reserved and less approachable but more reliable" than Americans and Aussies.

Broad, broad stereotypes there, but I feel a good amount of truth too.

Agree with all of that except for 2 points. Canadians are more like New Zealanders in demeanour than Brits.

Secondly, Toronto is Melbourne's twin. Boston's twin is Montreal.

[Jaborandi]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Agree with all of that except for 2 points. Canadians are more like New Zealanders in demeanour than Brits.

Secondly, Toronto is Melbourne's twin. Boston's twin is Montreal.

Afraid I can't agree. Melbourne is more like Montreal with its wealth of over the top historical architecture and more importantly, its self confidence and ease with itself in its cultural style and superiority.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

So much to hit:

What is up with some people in the West who love to hate their own cultures?

Non-white population makes a city less boring? Is that the only measure? Or is it diversity of skin color that only matters to you? Places like Japan, South Korea, and Switzerland would be incredibly boring places to you? That is the lamest reasoning for making a place "boring" or not.

Why is British influence a negative?

US culture is one of constant input from other cultures since the start. Do you hate US culture?

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Agree with all of that except for 2 points. Canadians are more like New Zealanders in demeanour than Brits.

I can see that, definitely. Canadians and Kiwis do seem to have more of a quiet, understated confidence about them than Brits do on the whole.

Originally Posted by isaidso

Secondly, Toronto is Melbourne's twin. Boston's twin is Montreal.

In spirit, yes. I was talking about the official Sister City program, in which Boston and Melbourne have been paired since 1985.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I can see that, definitely. Canadians and Kiwis do seem to have more of a quiet, understated confidence about them than Brits do on the whole.



In spirit, yes. I was talking about the official Sister City program, in which Boston and Melbourne have been paired since 1985.

It's well intentioned but boy does it lead to some odd pairings. Logical pairings for the sister city program are rare.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by mhays

US culture is one of constant input from other cultures since the start. Do you hate US culture?

The United States culture is indeed a fusion of many. I would say our strongest is English and German although Hispanic(mainly Mexican) is becoming quite mainstream.

However, I don't get your point. Where did I say I hated our culture? And lets not kid ourselves...US culture is heavily influenced by European culture of yesteryear. From our political foundations to religious leanings to our work ethic is very much linked to European traditions.

But in any case, my point was to show how people like The North One hate their own culture, or think others are better in some way. Subjectively I appreciate other societies for what they are, but I still think ours is worthy of praise, even with its faults. I just never understood the thought process.

But again, I don't get the point of your post.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

you guys realize that cities can be multicultural while being extremely boring.

and that cities can be very monocultural and be interesting and exciting.

I think it's actually more likely that a multicultural city is boring, because cities lacking dominant monocultures generally adapt globally consistent city norms.

Is Frankfurt more or less interesting in that most folks aren't even German? I would say less interesting. What's so unique about sushi and shopping malls?

It doesn't mean that multicultural cities can't be interesting, of course, but replacing local traits with global monoculture generally isn't interesting (IMO).

[cannedairspray]

There's a weird fetishization that some have about multiculturalism. It's completely independent from a place being interesting. It might be, it might not, but it has fucking nothing to do with how many skin colors you can see or languages you can hear.

[eschaton]

As an aside, can someone point me to where the traditional urban neighborhoods are in Australia, aside from the rowhouse neighborhoods in Melbourne, and to a lesser extent Sydney?

I've never been, but doing the old streetview tour thing, it seems like they go straight from the CBD to neighborhoods dominated by detached-single family homes, just like U.S. Sun Belt cities. In many cases the vernacular seems to be dominated by these one-story homes on relatively small lots, but set back from the street fairly far, giving them a vaguely LA-like vibe.

[johnnypd]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I finally had the pleasure of visiting Melbourne a few weeks ago and man, what a place. I can absolutely understand the Boston-Melbourne Sister City connection.

I work with heaps of Aussies, and I have come to believe that Australians are actually a lot more like Americans than Canadians are in many ways. This is something I didn't really see on my own until I heard it repeatedly from Japanese and Korean coworkers: Americans and Australians have very similar "bright, cheery, friendly, outgoing" dispositions and are "charmingly and convincingly confident all the time." Whereas the perceptions of Canadians and Brits is more along the lines of "calm, collected, emotionally under control" and come across as "reserved and less approachable but more reliable" than Americans and Aussies.

Broad, broad stereotypes there, but I feel a good amount of truth too.

Australia's biggest "ethnic" bloc, if you will, is working class Brits, who have a more rambunctious attitude than the middle and upper classes. The culture is very, very similar to what you see here, but with the addition of sunshine, the subtraction of class antagonism, with some new world optimism thrown in for good measure.

I also agree with those saying a multicultural city is not necessarily going to be a more interesting place, either from a visitor's perspective or as a resident. Newcastle and Liverpool are more interesting than some comparable cities by virtue of having retained their unique local culture more successfully than some other British cities. Yet Aussie cities seem to have done a good job at retaining their inherent irreverent, laid back culture at the same time as modernising and becoming multicultural.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Jaborandi

Afraid I can't agree. Melbourne is more like Montreal with its wealth of over the top historical architecture and more importantly, its self confidence and ease with itself in its cultural style and superiority.

Yes, but in terms of feel I found Melbourne to be a lot more like Toronto. It's got a buttoned-down, organized, sensible nature that you don't really have in Montreal. Or at least much less of.

In this sense Montreal is more like Sydney which is more devil-may-care in attitude. Though that's probably the only similarity between those two cities.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think it's actually more likely that a multicultural city is boring, because cities lacking dominant monocultures generally adapt globally consistent city norms.

Is Frankfurt more or less interesting in that most folks aren't even German? I would say less interesting. What's so unique about sushi and shopping malls?

It doesn't mean that multicultural cities can't be interesting, of course, but replacing local traits with global monoculture generally isn't interesting (IMO).

This. Multiculturalism has its place and can make for some good eating choices but I prefer to experience the people and the culture of the place I'm visiting. I can stay here in Houston to soak up the multiculturalism.

[johnnypd]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As an aside, can someone point me to where the traditional urban neighborhoods are in Australia, aside from the rowhouse neighborhoods in Melbourne, and to a lesser extent Sydney?

I've never been, but doing the old streetview tour thing, it seems like they go straight from the CBD to neighborhoods dominated by detached-single family homes, just like U.S. Sun Belt cities. In many cases the vernacular seems to be dominated by these one-story homes on relatively small lots, but set back from the street fairly far, giving them a vaguely LA-like vibe.

For Sydney i would suggest King's Cross, Darlinghurst, Potts Point, Ultimo, Surry Hills, Paddington, Redfern, Darlington, Newtown, Glebe, Balmain. The first three or four places mentioned have large, older apartment buildings blended in with terraced housing, whereas the others lean towards single family homes, albeit packed together on tight streets. There's dense nodes developed or developing at Waterloo, Bondi, North Sydney neighbourhoods, Manly but they tend to feature newer buildings.