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  #7241  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2017, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian View Post
How about heavy tax breaks for developments that create new jobs/residential doors within 1,000 feet of a Trax/FrontRunner station. The goal would be to create dense urbanized mixed use centers around rail. Beyond 1000 feet is where most of the parking would end up. That's still under 2 blocks walk to the station. These developments would have a market incentive to also provide parking but beyond the 1000 foot tax incentive zone. The tax breaks could be easily justified by the savings to UDOT, let alone what it could do for air quality. Further UTA Park and ride lots adjacent to stations would become more valuable as real estate. They could sell them to help fund transit expansion.
Much too logical, and far too effective. It will never work.

So my commute this morning took me to the Ballpark station, where I was able to see the chaos of the TRAX construction routing first-hand. Unforunantely I headed south after that, so I did not get to see that white whale known as the Black Line, but I still learned some interesting things.

First, the bus bridge between Ballpark and Courthouse is legit. There were 4 buses waiting to take people downtown, and all of them were empty. Instead, the platform was crowded with people waiting for the Blue line, despite the bus drivers standing at the fence across the tracks practically pleading for people to come over and try their buses. It was pretty comical. As I arrived, a Blue Line train consisting of 4 S70's arrived and, though already standing-room only, was just barely able to absorb the entire platform's worth of people, leaving none for the crestfallen bus drivers.

Similar to the oversupply of buses in the pick-up circle, UTA had an oversupply of friendly crowd control people on the platform. They went around from group to group giving personalized instructions on how to get where they wanted to go. They were perhaps a little too good at their job; I got approached at least 3 times, causing me to have to pause and 'rewind' my podcast. Then, when a Red or Green train pulled in, the UTA personalities erupted in much shouting and ballyhooing about bus bridges, the train terminating there, and where it would go next, etc. When the bus drivers joined in as well it meant that 5 or 6 UTA people were calling out separate instructions from 5 or 6 separate directions. It made the place seem much more chaotic and disorganized than it actually was. If anything, that is the best metaphor I have of UTA's operations in general: Well-intentioned, but self-deafeatingly clumsy.

Full disclosure: UTA rail transit operations used to be my employer during college. I often contrast this with another employer of mine just before college, the transportation department at Walt Disney World. They are in so many ways the original Mickey Mouse operation, but even they would never have put up with that sort of chaos. They would have spaced people out so they weren't yelling over each other, had signs that worked, and wouldn't have had contradicting destination markers.

I didn't even mention the signs yet, did I? The Electronic Message Boards on the platform scrolled the single message "Expect Delays Due To Construction" and were absolutely no help. On top of that, each of the TRAX lines had their own method of dealing with the disruption, each disagreeing with the other. The Green Line's method was the worst - flat out denial. Green trains entering Ballpark automatically announced that they were headed for "Downtown Salt Lake City and the Airport", to which the many UTA personalities on the platform responded by shouting over one another about how the announcement was wrong and that the train would not go to either of those places. The Red Line's method was to underpromise; all Red Line trains announced they were on their way to Central Pointe (a pre-recorded announcement and route for when Red Line trains need to go out of service). It took much reassuring from the UTA platform barkers to convince passengers that the train would proceed through Central Pointe and continue on to Daybreak. The Blue Line's monikers were honest but incomplete - they read "BLU - SLC", but made no mention of the airport - a point that the platform attendants made extra sure to loudly rectify.

In private moments I asked the platform attendants how things were going, and they were mostly non-committal. One was upset that trains were off their schedule and were as much as 10 minutes behind (I liked his honest disappointment at the delays) but the rest were far more fatalistic in their outlook ("trains come when they come."). Looking at the Transit Tracker app, it looked as though 6 of the 9 Blue Line trains on the map were trapped downtown, leaving the other 3 alone between ballpark and Draper (I can't imagine what that meant for headways - 25 minutes, perhaps?). Though one of the trains at Draper was displayed as 'Green' on the app, so perhaps it wasn't entirely trustworthy. I also noticed that all the trains on the University Line were marked as 'Red,' meaning if UTA was probably not using the Black Line as a route for scheduling purposes, only as a customer convenience and was therefore probably using pre-programmed destination markers (like Blu-SLC or RED - UNIVERSITY), and then solving any residual confusion with much shouting.

So, overall, I'm not impressed from a customer-relations standpoint. UTA certainly did not make itself any new friends today. For the extent of the work they are doing (reducing their busiest section of track down to single-track) I think they are handling it reasonably well, but perhaps next week they will do better. Most disappointing is that they seem unable to update their routing and scheduling on the fly, as demonstrated by the hack-job of routes and destination markers I saw today. It really shouldn't be that hard to load up a new route into the train cars' computer so that the routing doesn't have to be done manually and the directions don't have to be given by shouting. It isn't just a matter of slick customer-relations, it is a matter of operating efficiently (manual operations waste so much time).
I'm sticking with my previous judgement: Well-intentioned, but self-deafeatingly clumsy.
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  #7242  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2017, 6:02 PM
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joscar joscar is offline
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Temporary Black Line

I decided to ride the Black Line Friday evening. UTA was using the old Siemens SDs on the line. And while my train actually had "University" on its moniker, some of the others on the black line were displaying the blue "Salt Lake" moniker. There were many a confused person on the platforms in downtown with all the reroutings and such.

I snapped a pic of this rather rare scene.
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  #7243  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2017, 3:48 PM
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Cool picture joscar. I tried to take a few pictures, but none of them are worth sharing.

So I rode the Black Line over the weekend. It was pretty anticlimactic. Like mentioned above, there is no Black Line moniker, destination marker, or announcements. They use a mix of blue and red line destination markers instead. The operator makes all the announcements themselves. Still cool to hear, but not exactly what I was hoping for.

Some takeaways from this weekend:

I had been hoping that we'd see a fully-formed ready-to-implement Black Line that was only waiting on a rebuilt junction. I'd heard from multiple UTA sources that they've done a lot of work behind the scenes to get it ready. Instead, we got a hack-job of cobbled-together line segments that no public-relations officer should ever approve of.

But perhaps none of that indicates that the black line isn't ready to go, because the construction really messed up a lot of stuff. It was amazing to walk downtown over the weekend as see the glorious mess of trains trying to saw their way through the irregular traffic. All the traffic lights in downtown are precisely timed to UTA's regular schedule; with trains thrown off because of construction and re-routes, trains were stopped all over the place where they shouldn't unusually stop, causing all kinds of delays to an already delayed system. Then there was the single-track problem, as the Blue Line was forced to run on the Westbound track for nearly the entire length of main street. I'd never seen that before - trains running on the wrong side of the street against traffic.
Throughout all this, the Blue Line trains kept their 'Train Designation' light on - that little LED cluster at the bottom left corner of the windshield. That stayed blue even when the destination marker said 'GRN-Airport'. For the Black Line, the little LED cluster actually made a 'black' light. I don't know how they did it, but you could tell the lights were on, and they were black. That stayed the same even when the destination markers said 'blue' or 'red'. So perhaps the internal automatic routing and scheduling and train monitoring systems were in fact ready and working with revenue passengers on board, even as the blue line had to be routed manually around them (manually in this case meaning someone in an office has to click a mouse to turn a switch, not a man on the tracks with a crowbar).
On the whole I am very happy UTA is using the Black Line designation instead of some 'temporary university' line or 'Red Line North' or something else UTA is likely to do. It bodes well for the Black Line's future, and shows that people at TRAX have at least laid some of the ground work to get it going someday. Let's hope that the 4th and Main intersection needs to be rebuilt soon (hopefully into a Grand Union in order to future-proof it) so that there will be no more physical impediments to its implementation. Because man, was that Black Line train packed!
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  #7244  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 2:32 PM
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This is mostly irrelevant, but I cannot help myself.

This is a picture of a red Tesla Model 3 prototype charging in Salt Lake City. Production should begin on this car next month, costing 1/2 the price of the Model S. With any luck, we will start seeing these things in droves here in Utah, driving without any emissions and managing traffic flow much better than humans with their advanced autopilot and self-driving features.
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  #7245  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 5:28 AM
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This is mostly irrelevant, but I cannot help myself.

This is a picture of a red Tesla Model 3 prototype charging in Salt Lake City. Production should begin on this car next month, costing 1/2 the price of the Model S. With any luck, we will start seeing these things in droves here in Utah, driving without any emissions and managing traffic flow much better than humans with their advanced autopilot and self-driving features.
Did you take that? Those dudes look like they have disguises on. Was one of them Elon???
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  #7246  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 2:59 PM
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Did you take that? Those dudes look like they have disguises on. Was one of them Elon???
No, I did not take this picture. I grabbed it from Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...ity_utah_sent/

But I did talk yesterday with some of the Tesla sales people at their Gallery on State Street, where that picture was taken. They confirmed that, despite looking like cheap costumes, those beards are real. Those two dudes are employed as Tesla Traveling Technicians. These are people whose whole job it is to take a car on a drive - sometimes short, sometimes cross-country - in order to identify issues with it in various conditions. Who knows what they were trying to test for here in Utah, they weren't allowed to share any details of their assignment with the Tesla sales people. Apparently they kept the car under a cover while it was being supercharged, and asked for people to be far enough back so as to not be able to see the interior before they took the cover off to drive away. Apparently the dudes also asked for pictures not to be shared, and this picture got posted on the internet by a friend of a friend of a friend of someone who ignored their warning but knew better than to post it with their own account. Then, before leaving, they first drove the car to the Tesla Gallery's back shop for a while before leaving north, presumably to throw any followers off their trail since there is little they could actually fix or adjust on the car with the tools in that back shop. Some of the Tesla people think they were on their way to Jackson Hole.

It's crazy how secretive this company is about un-released products. Free publicity I guess. I'm happy to provide it for them!
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  #7247  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2017, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
No, I did not take this picture. I grabbed it from Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...ity_utah_sent/

But I did talk yesterday with some of the Tesla sales people at their Gallery on State Street, where that picture was taken. They confirmed that, despite looking like cheap costumes, those beards are real. Those two dudes are employed as Tesla Traveling Technicians. These are people whose whole job it is to take a car on a drive - sometimes short, sometimes cross-country - in order to identify issues with it in various conditions. Who knows what they were trying to test for here in Utah, they weren't allowed to share any details of their assignment with the Tesla sales people. Apparently they kept the car under a cover while it was being supercharged, and asked for people to be far enough back so as to not be able to see the interior before they took the cover off to drive away. Apparently the dudes also asked for pictures not to be shared, and this picture got posted on the internet by a friend of a friend of a friend of someone who ignored their warning but knew better than to post it with their own account. Then, before leaving, they first drove the car to the Tesla Gallery's back shop for a while before leaving north, presumably to throw any followers off their trail since there is little they could actually fix or adjust on the car with the tools in that back shop. Some of the Tesla people think they were on their way to Jackson Hole.

It's crazy how secretive this company is about un-released products. Free publicity I guess. I'm happy to provide it for them!
Just like Elon's other company SpaceX, Tesla has a huge fan base of stalkers. They have to take those precautions because of them.
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  #7248  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2017, 6:45 PM
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And here I am watching the live feed of the SpaceX static-fire test in Florida today... I could be type-cast.

Back to transit. This article (DESERET NEWS LINK) proposes making UTA only an operator of its transit network, while leaving the planning of expansion and service changes to a state panel of some kind or another.
If the panel is part of UDOT, I think I could support that. I just want for there to be 1 agency in charge of transportation planning so that they are forced to collaborate, rather than compete and step on each others' toes.
I think I know what Makid will say about this (he's probably behind this) but I wonder what everyone else on this forum things?
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  #7249  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2017, 7:02 PM
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And here I am watching the live feed of the SpaceX static-fire test in Florida today... I could be type-cast.

Back to transit. This article (DESERET NEWS LINK) proposes making UTA only an operator of its transit network, while leaving the planning of expansion and service changes to a state panel of some kind or another.
If the panel is part of UDOT, I think I could support that. I just want for there to be 1 agency in charge of transportation planning so that they are forced to collaborate, rather than compete and step on each others' toes.
I think I know what Makid will say about this (he's probably behind this) but I wonder what everyone else on this forum things?
Hatman, I just had an idea and sent it to a few State Legislators. If anyone also sent my idea to anyone that would listen, I think we should thank them for getting more people discussing possible options. I am glad that it is being looked into.

1 aspect that was talked about in the article is that the State would pickup the debt that UTA currently has. If this were to happen while also allowing UTA to keep the current funding levels for operations and maintenance, UTA could add the Black Line and double bus service while having some funds left over for possible fare reductions. It would get all of the busier bus routes to 15 minute or better frequencies while also expanding service and improving frequencies on all other lines

From the State angle, imagine the possibility. Spurring the creation of 2,000 to 3,000 jobs (Drivers, mechanics and more). So they could sell it as a job creation and air pollution reduction plan.

The only thing I haven't heard is how Cities that want improved transit would be able to go about it if City/County boundaries are crossed (Blue Line expansion to Lehi/Orem & South Davis BRT/Streetcar).

As long as Cities/Counties are able to raise taxes (Property/TIF/Sales) to increase transit within their borders, I am all for it provided that there is some funds dedicated to paying for the operation of the increased service. We don't want UTA to pay for service and maintenance but then not be able to run any additional service that is added without reducing existing services.

One thing to note from the article is that it does talk about transit funding from the State Level. I think this will be part of the carrot to get additional support in the upcoming session.

I am interested in what other people think that this could mean as well.
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  #7250  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2017, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
...

It's crazy how secretive this company is about un-released products. Free publicity I guess. I'm happy to provide it for them!
Every car company is secretive about their new cars. They drive cars around with stealth coverings over every inch of them.

2018 Nissan Leaf
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  #7251  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Every car company is secretive about their new cars. They drive cars around with stealth coverings over every inch of them.

2018 Nissan Leaf
Crap, that is so much better looking than the first gen leaf. I'm in the market for an electric car right now, and while I love Tesla, something tells me that they're stuck in 2010 in terms of design language...
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  #7252  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 4:45 AM
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Crap, that is so much better looking than the first gen leaf. I'm in the market for an electric car right now, and while I love Tesla, something tells me that they're stuck in 2010 in terms of design language...
I personally love the look of Tesla's. I have recently been looking into the Nissan Leaf as my next car. I don't have a reservation for the Model 3 and if I put one down now I wouldn't get the car till the end of 2018 or sometime in 2019 if I did put the money down. Range isn't something I am worrying about, as it would be something I drive to work or to church since we have a bigger car that can hold my family of 6. The current Nissan Leaf doesn't get much better than 110 miles on an extremely good day, with rumors of over 200 miles in the next years model. I personally hate going to the gas station and knowing I can plug in at home or other locations as I shop or eat appeals to me.
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  #7253  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2017, 2:59 AM
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Crap, that is so much better looking than the first gen leaf. I'm in the market for an electric car right now, and while I love Tesla, something tells me that they're stuck in 2010 in terms of design language...
I LOVE the 1st gen Leaf. The 2018 Leaf is looking like the same old Asian crap.

Last edited by Stenar; Jun 17, 2017 at 3:35 AM.
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  #7254  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2017, 8:24 PM
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I had a dream last night that I was driving down town through construction and they were putting new trax lines in and it was so freaking glorious. sigh.
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  #7255  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2017, 8:26 PM
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I'm sure this is just a move to move inventory of current Leafs before the 2018's come out, but I saw this a few weeks ago.
Nissan is offering a $10,000 incentive for Rocky Mountain Power customers in Utah who purchase the 2017 Nissan LEAF.

https://www.rockymountainpower.net/c...t_Customer.pdf

https://www.rockymountainpower.net/leaf
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  #7256  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 11:41 PM
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  #7257  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 12:00 AM
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I'm thinkin Derek Kitchen has his sights set on 2019.
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  #7258  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 7:31 PM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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I'm thinkin Derek Kitchen has his sights set on 2019.
I hope so
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  #7259  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:10 PM
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I hope he runs in 2019 but it is on the same election cycle as his city council seat which might be risky for him. Lose the Mayors race and loose council seat at the same time.
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  #7260  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 11:29 PM
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I hope he runs in 2019 but it is on the same election cycle as his city council seat which might be risky for him. Lose the Mayors race and loose council seat at the same time.
He could run for both at the same time. He wouldn't be the first politician to try that. I have not been impressed with him and wouldn't vote for him for mayor, though.
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