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Originally Posted by untitledreality
Did I say that CPW15 had a prewar layout? No, I said it had a traditional arrangement. And where do you get the idea that prewar properties go for less than modern buildings? Even in Chicago prewar buildings fetch enormous sums. Look at any of the well maintained luxury prewars along NLSD. Or even the better maintained Hyde Park prewars.
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You clearly haven't got the slightest knowledge of how real estate economics works. When you appraise a building a traditional layout is a knock, PERIOD. You cannot debate this. There are volumes of aggregate data out there that show traditional floor plans (minus adjustments for whatever inferior and superior qualities they have) sell and rent for less. Also, you are a moron if you really think the reason real estate in the Gold Coast or along LSD sells for gobs of money because it has a pre war layout.
And again, you just keep fucking ignoring the unavoidable fact that NO ONE builds pre-war floor plans anymore because they would sell for way less money if they did. If this is not the case, then tell my why it is that absolutely no one builds those layouts anymore.
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Of course no one will ever build new with carbon copy floor plans, but the essence of traditional living arrangements still has tremendous value.
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No no no, we aren't just talking about the fact that no one builds "carbon copy" floor plans of old styles, we are talking about the fact that
no one builds floor plans that are even remotely close to prewar layouts anymore.
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BS. Minimal boxes that maximize the buildable volume while simply providing perimeter windows does not equal 'maximizing quality of life'. Densities over the site will be identical (because what developer wouldn't fully build out a site), you are just pushing the density vertical. Its still 'pack em in'. See a contemporary building like 235VB as an example... 700+ units and deep, dark floor plans... see also SONO
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So you are admitting I'm right? You are admitting that modern buildings tend to stretch that density out over greater heights. You are admitting that there is a fundamental difference in the way we mass buildings now versus in 1930. Therefore you are also admitting that I am correct in that a true pre war building can never be built today.
Also, 235 is a great example. That building had been in financial trouble because no one wants units where the bedrooms have almost no light. The prices in that building have been severely depressed as a result. That's because 235 is a piss poor example of a modern layout.
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Did I once mention 860-880? But since you brought it up... 850 NLSD is shallower exterior to exterior than 860-880 due to its interior light well. I was actually speaking of buildings like the previously mentioned 235 and SONO.
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Doesn't matter if you mentioned it, it is the example that I'm using. And no, 850 does not have a shallower interior depth. It is almost exactly as wide as either 860-880 tower, yet a majority of the windows look into the dingy light well which is EXACTLY MY POINT. That is not acceptable anymore. People don't want a view of the fire escape. Therefore a building like 850 can never be built again.
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You're right... no one is building carbon copies of 1920s residential towers anymore... and I didnt say they should... I said that for those who build faux classical should look to their prewar counterparts for design cues instead of trying to slap a traditional exterior on a modern tower.
Buildings like the Ritz, Elysian, LP2520, Park Tower, 840 NLSD, K Station, Michigan Ave Towers, Museum Park 1-4 and the Columbian will continue to be built... if these developers and architects continue with faux classicism they should at least do a better job at relating to their historic counterparts through materiality, addressing the streetscape, massing and updated traditional living arrangements.
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And herein lies the problem. You don't know what the hell you are talking about and are just saying "well I think developers and architects should do this" without taking into account the fact that they would go bankrupt if they listened to you. In order to create a pre-war massing they'd have to revert to pre-war style layouts and would go belly up just like 235 almost did. No one wants the drugs you are pushing, not this forum, not developers, not homebuyers, not realtors. The designs you want people to resort to don't exist because they can't exist. They are economic impossibilities.
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