The future of Hamilton's public transit

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by DC83

So does this suggest they'll keep TH&B Stn open for GO as well? That's very interesting!

At least in the interim. The current GO station is a half finished project as far as I'm concerned. Full service was always part of the plan. Things got complicated with the tunnel (CP demanded lowering to accomodate future electrification) and we've been in limbo ever since. Now, however with GO electrification on the table, they could make this a one shot deal and fix the tunnel to allow full rail service into the core, or they could cheap out and set up in VIA's new cardboard box station.

[Jon Dalton]

I should add, once the electrified trains are running into James North, Hunter St. will not be used for rush hour trains. What will it be used for? A patch of pavement for buses to park on, and a siding for CP frieght crews to stop for lunch on their way through Hamilton.

[coalminecanary]

if they can build subways in toronto and skyways over the water they can fix the bloody hunter tunnel. it's all about desire, and they just barely give a shit.

on the plus side, i heard that hsr will end up using hunter go as a hub. not confirmed yet but i think the new terminal idea was finally scrapped. good thing too... that money could be way better spent in about 10 million other ways...

[coalminecanary]

They should just remove the stretch of hunter from bay->queen, divert traffic to jackson. it's mostly large buildings there, i don't think there are any places that can't be accessed from queen/hess/caroline. they must have disrupted much more land and travel lanes when they build the linc for gods sake, it's just impossible for anyone to be creative when it comes to rail. if it aint already built, it's "impossible"

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

if they can build subways in toronto and skyways over the water they can fix the bloody hunter tunnel. it's all about desire, and they just barely give a shit.

on the plus side, i heard that hsr will end up using hunter go as a hub. not confirmed yet but i think the new terminal idea was finally scrapped. good thing too... that money could be way better spent in about 10 million other ways...

Good point. It's way more important to integrate HSR with GO than it is to integrate VIA and GO. Of course they can modify the tunnel, and they don't even need to dig up Hunter St. again. They could also use the CP belt line right of way to connect back to the CN tracks in the east end, but it's like you said.

[SteelTown]

But what's the point if the line at TH&B can't continue on to East Hamilton and the Niagara Region like the CN lines does? Eventually that's the goal for Metrolinx. The CP lines goes into a dense area of Hamilton and cuts along Main St, then it ends up in Industrial side of Hamilton.

[raisethehammer]

a connecting HSR route could go both ways on James between stations.
Very cool.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

But what's the point if the line at TH&B can't continue on to East Hamilton and the Niagara Region like the CN lines does? Eventually that's the goal for Metrolinx. The CP lines goes into a dense area of Hamilton and cuts along Main St, then it ends up in Industrial side of Hamilton.

It can connect back once it gets to Gage. The tracks go across Main St back onto the same line that runs behind LIUNA Stn.

I REALLY hope they stick w/ TH&B as their station/new HSR terminal. It's the only option that makes sense.

GO services commuters more-so than VIA. And who uses HSR/public trasnit most often? Commuters. A connection between GO & HSR is imperative to downtown's (residential) success.

[SteelTown]

Do you really want an elevated train track whipping along Gage Park and over Main St and into dense neighbourhoods?

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Do you really want an elevated train track whipping along Gage Park and over Main St and into dense neighbourhoods?

There are already tracks there!! They're seldom used. Plenty of opportunity for GO to access it.

[SteelTown]

I know but there's absolutely no way GO Transit and the city is going to allow GO Trains to stop all traffic along Main and King Street to allow GO Trains to pass every 30 minutes to have GO Train connection to East Hamilton and the Niagara Region. It'll have to be elevated, more millions needed.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I know but there's absolutely no way GO Transit and the city is going to allow GO Trains to stop all traffic along Main and King Street to allow GO Trains to pass every 30 minutes to have GO Train connection to East Hamilton and the Niagara Region. It'll have to be elevated, more millions needed.

Well considering service every 30mins (in Hamilton) is light-years away, I'm assuming the City will have a change of attitude by that time and realize Public Transit is much more important than the Main Street Expressway.

[go_leafs_go02]

This is my dream for Go Transit through Hamilton, Ontario. Unfortunately, it involves the removal of a neighbourhood to allow connection through downtown for both GO & Via Rail traffic.

I just am against this new James St. N station in like every single way really. I love the TH & B station that is used now. It is perfect for Hamilton. Really, with its location.

It is my dream, and very far from practical. I would like to see the line incorporated, be below grade for the majority of it (from the TH&B line to the present CN routing in Hamilton's east end), allowing for seamless overpasses to be constructed on King, Main, Cannon, and Barton where the roadway would mainly stay at the same level.

The track would also be widened to 2 rail lines, electrified of course for GO trains.



My idea is seen here:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...1c3c&z=13&om=0

I expect plenty of flack for my idea to remove a neighbourhood, but I propose possibly installing a Hamilton East GO station at Barton & Ottawa St. N, right by Centre Mall.

[raisethehammer]

I saw the canopy today at Eastgate...pretty nice.
Actually that entire transit terminal seems great. Next step would be to have a 'terminal building' with a cafe/shop/newstand etc.... but this is a really nice job by HSR.
The bus-shelters are the newest in the city. I haven't seen that design used anywhere else in the city yet (they should use those new ones at the B-Line stops instead of these ghetto ones. lol)
The only complaint is that the canopy is too short. It should run right out to the B-Line stops on Queenston. Perhaps they'll expand it in the future.
Anyhow...a nice job. For once, I'm impressed by the HSR.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

This is my dream for Go Transit through Hamilton, Ontario. Unfortunately, it involves the removal of a neighbourhood to allow connection through downtown for both GO & Via Rail traffic.

I just am against this new James St. N station in like every single way really. I love the TH & B station that is used now. It is perfect for Hamilton. Really, with its location.

It is my dream, and very far from practical. I would like to see the line incorporated, be below grade for the majority of it (from the TH&B line to the present CN routing in Hamilton's east end), allowing for seamless overpasses to be constructed on King, Main, Cannon, and Barton where the roadway would mainly stay at the same level.

The track would also be widened to 2 rail lines, electrified of course for GO trains.



My idea is seen here:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...1c3c&z=13&om=0

I expect plenty of flack for my idea to remove a neighbourhood, but I propose possibly installing a Hamilton East GO station at Barton & Ottawa St. N, right by Centre Mall.

idea to do LRT on these tracks was floated a few years back...CP won't allow it. Apparently there is WAY too much train traffic. I thought it would be great, but no luck.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I know but there's absolutely no way GO Transit and the city is going to allow GO Trains to stop all traffic along Main and King Street to allow GO Trains to pass every 30 minutes to have GO Train connection to East Hamilton and the Niagara Region. It'll have to be elevated, more millions needed.

There are also level crossings on Wellington, Victoria, Wentorth, Sherman, Ottawa, and so on, all important streets for industrial access. With hourly trains along the CN line from James St, they would be looking at grade seperation on at least some of these roads. It wouldn't involve ugly elevated tracks (which are a feature of any city with decent rail acces), but rather dipping the road down under the tracks like we did with James, John and Catharine streets. Pedestrian access can be maintained to the buildings on each sides of the tracks.

[go_leafs_go02]

I will attest to that about that rail line being busy. My grandmother lived in a small town called Fenwick in the Niagara Region right in the heart of the region in Pelham. The CP line runs right through there, and it's the TH & B line. She lived within a few hundred metres of the track, and my goodness, for a single rail line, that track gets alot of rail traffic. I'm not sure about that number of trains per day, but they do run quite frequently in both directions at all times of the day. It doesn't hurt that they whistle loudly through the whole town, 24/7.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

idea to do LRT on these tracks was floated a few years back...CP won't allow it. Apparently there is WAY too much train traffic. I thought it would be great, but no luck.

There is too much train traffic, and hopefully there will be alot more of it in the future. I live right beside the tracks and hear all the frieghts go by. Besides, that rail line is too far away from any appreciable density for most of its length.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

There are also level crossings on Wellington, Victoria, Wentorth, Sherman, Ottawa, and so on, all important streets for industrial access. With hourly trains along the CN line from James St, they would be looking at grade seperation on at least some of these roads. It wouldn't involve ugly elevated tracks (which are a feature of any city with decent rail acces), but rather dipping the road down under the tracks like we did with James, John and Catharine streets. Pedestrian access can be maintained to the buildings on each sides of the tracks.

However. We are talking about GO Trains, and VIA trains, when in comparison to Freight trains, are very very short. A 1-2 min inconvenience for drivers at a crossing for a GO train or VIA train to fly through is nothing. I don't think you would be waiting very long at all, delays would be minimal.

Freight trains can have well over 100 cars. GO trains, even expanded will have only 12 or 16, I can't recall the number, and Via trains are between 4-12, and the current Niagara spur usually has 3-5 cars only, including the engine.

[Jon Dalton]

The GO trains could pass by in the amount of time one usually spends waiting at a red light. Speeds will have to be reduced going through the city, especially in the vicinity of level crossings, but this is universal. It will be more of a public safety issue than one of traffic flow. We used to run heavy rail ON the street, let alone across it. Typically the grade seperation projects come about as rail activity increases. The number of GO trains to Stoney Creek and beyond will be minimal at first. There won't be hourly trains until a significant shift in transportation patterns takes place, and they can at least muster up the will to build a bridge or two. I'd question the logic of planning a GO station anywhere east of Hamilton in the first place. A regional network should only go so far so as to maintain efficient, frequent and reliable service, and after that it's up to the national (VIA) network. We shouldn't encourage people to commute 3 hours from Niagara to Toronto. We should be thinking, long term, about Hamilton as a secondary hub of the network, but that's far off in the distance considering 1/3 of us leave the city for work. Regardless, it's on the province's agenda, let's talk about getting half decent service into our core before we compromise to serve sprawling areas that will probably fight against even having a GO station.