The future of Hamilton's public transit - Page 13

coalminecanary · #**241** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 12:01 AM**

There are level crossings on busy roads in other cities with way more GO traffic than we will ever have. Burlington, for sure there is at least one if not two. Toronto has a couple -- strachan in particular is a busy road access between lakeshore/gardiner/qew and downtown and it has level crossings -- and there is no sweat there. a level go crossing through the entire city is plain and simple not a big deal. if you get stopped by a go train it's for like 30 seconds.

as far as via, st catharines is a bit of a joke.. they should run the line through hamilton (hunter stn) to ft erie and on to buffalo that way anyways!

coalminecanary · #**242** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 12:05 AM**

Anyway I've said it before... The Hunter station is a jewel. Travellers to Hamilton should get off the train and see an amazing building like that, not whatever crap terminal they build below grade at James North. We need to put on a good face for tourists from the minute they step into town. Not to mention the approach along cootes and then through the back yards of durand is just plain awesome.

All the responses here clarify my point that even among rail lovers, there is this attitude of impossibility. If we can build highways at these immense scales we can certainly solve these puny train problems. God, they built about 10 accesses up and down the escarpment BY HAND back in the day! We can't solve the problem of hunter tunnel and a handful of level crossings? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!

Berklon · #**243** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 5:26 PM**

As I stated a few weeks back, I don't see what will attract many GO commuters from the East end/Stoney Creek from using the station there instead of driving to Aldershot or Burlington. An east-end station would add to their commute considerably.

The increased service later on in the day is good, but I'm not sure that there'll be a lot of people who'll require it - especially from the James North and Stoney Creek area.

DC83 · #**244** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 5:36 PM**

^^ I don't think we need to worry about an East-End Stn (or ANY Niagara Stn for that matter) for a while still.
GO & The Ont. Gov't need to worry about getting decent train service downtown first.

But that was one awesome visual u made, Go_Leafs_Go!!

miketoronto · #**245** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 9:12 PM**

But you gotta get service out to the east, so Stoney Creek people don't have to come to scary downtown Hamilton. When I worked for GO Transit, we had this one customer who kept calling in, trying to get information on alternative GO Transit routings to Toronto, so she would not have to go to the Hunter Street Station in scary Downtown Hamilton and be threatened by drug dealers every 10 feet

I think an East End station would be great, because people could use it to commute to downtown Hamilton.

go_leafs_go02 · #**246** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC83

^^ I don't think we need to worry about an East-End Stn (or ANY Niagara Stn for that matter) for a while still.
GO & The Ont. Gov't need to worry about getting decent train service downtown first.

But that was one awesome visual u made, Go_Leafs_Go!!

thanks...it's kinda just a pipe dream...would be ridiculous in costs...but I think it would be the most benifactory to all Hamiltonians, especially those in the East End/Stoney Creek.

I would love to see the NIMBY's who would live close to that neighbourhood that I propose to take over. That would be a hurdle, but i know in Mississauga close to Port Credit, there is a spot on the QEW where a whole city street in a subdivison was taken over, demolished, to provide expansion to the QEW. It's close to Bronte Creek Rd. I believe.

raisethehammer · #**247** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 10:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

thanks...it's kinda just a pipe dream...would be ridiculous in costs...but I think it would be the most benifactory to all Hamiltonians, especially those in the East End/Stoney Creek.

I would love to see the NIMBY's who would live close to that neighbourhood that I propose to take over. That would be a hurdle, but i know in Mississauga close to Port Credit, there is a spot on the QEW where a whole city street in a subdivison was taken over, demolished, to provide expansion to the QEW. It's close to Bronte Creek Rd. I believe.

sadly, you're right - it would be ridiculous in costs. this city and province will gladly spend that kind of money on highways and roads, but not transit. no sir!
only people with cars deserve that kind of investment.

HAMRetrofit · #**248** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 2:29 AM**

I was originally in favor in consolidating the stations at TH&B. I think I have changed my mind. Perhaps having two train stations will be the best in the long term. They could each become hubs with access into different regions to the east. The first into the East Mountain, Welland, Fort Erie, and Buffalo axis. The second into the Stoney Creek, Grimsby, and St. Catharines axis.

Manhattan has two trains stations in separate locations: Penn Station and Grand Central Station. The 43rd Steet bus terminal is in a separate location as well. Perhaps as Hamilton grows up having multiple major stations will be a major benefit since it will have far greater infrastructural capacity. Perhaps this will be a slight inconvenience but if the downtown becomes worth it then it does not matter.

In Toronto I wish there was two separate stations to serve uptown as well as downtown. Union is not actually the best model of a train station anyways.

DC83 · #**249** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 2:54 AM**

^^ Toronto used to have the North Toronto Station in Summerhill. Now it's an LCBO. so I see what ur saying.

SteelTown · #**250** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 3:45 AM**

Glad to see someone seeing the benefits of two Stations in the core. A big complaint is the lack of North-South route in the lower end of Hamilton well having two stations will definitely force the HSR to re-evaluate some routes to improve North-South connections.

Once there's a GO Station in Stoney Creek it'll definitely be at Centennial Parkway if using the CN line.

Jon Dalton · #**251** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

thanks...it's kinda just a pipe dream...would be ridiculous in costs...but I think it would be the most benifactory to all Hamiltonians, especially those in the East End/Stoney Creek.

I would love to see the NIMBY's who would live close to that neighbourhood that I propose to take over. That would be a hurdle, but i know in Mississauga close to Port Credit, there is a spot on the QEW where a whole city street in a subdivison was taken over, demolished, to provide expansion to the QEW. It's close to Bronte Creek Rd. I believe.

That's not exactly a quality neighbourhood and I wouldn't expect residents to be that attached to it. Worse has been done in the name of highways as raisethehammer pointed out. I'm sure everyone would complain if that were proposed today, even people who would never dare to venture into that area by foot, because these days rail is seen as a leftist agenda rather than infrastructure.

the dude · #**252** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 1:18 AM**

i've got a stupid question about LRT. how do you calculate the cost per km? for example, a route from eastgate to mac would be approximately 12.5km one-way. so, would it work out to x[12.5] or [25], taking into account both directions? thanks.

SteelTown · #**253** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 1:33 AM**

That's not a stupid question.

For Hamilton it's times 2 because it's King/Main therefore on two streets. But you have to calculate the distance from Eastgate to the Delta square as one and then the distance from from Delta square to McMaster as two.

Edit: Well no because the cost per km includes two tracks for one going West/East and another going East/West. For Hamilton instead it's just one track along King and Main so really it's 12.5km times whatever the cost it.

the dude · #**254** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 1:40 AM**

ah, i see. it just occurred to me that the potential costs are much higher than i had imagined. thanks, steeltown.

the dude · #**255** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 1:44 AM**

ok, that's what i was wondering. does the cost/km include two sets of tracks? sounds like it does.

SteelTown · #**256** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 2:43 AM**

Yea I believe it includes two tracks. Though you have to think about King St as it's not straight like Main. King curves down towards the Delta square so that's probably an extra cost.

raisethehammer · #**257** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 3:42 AM**

cost per km if we did it both ways on Main St would be much lower than running a line on King and a line on Main.
it's not just the tracks, but overhead wires, electrical boxes etc.... much more efficient to do the tracks 2-way on one-street and use the same overhead and underground infrastructure instead of doubling the cost from the Delta to Mac just because Hamilton city hall refuses to allow Main and King to function as proper city streets.

go_leafs_go02 · #**258** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 4:05 AM**

i heard King & Main were going to 2 way streets in 2009 anyways.

flar · #**259** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 5:05 AM**

King goes 2way in 2010, but just right downtown

raisethehammer · #**260** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 1:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

i heard King & Main were going to 2 way streets in 2009 anyways.

unless Hamiltonians elect a mayor and council with big enough balls to run Public Works (instead of Public Works running the city) you'll never see that happen.