ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by robertjhajek

Is this Casinopage.com?

This always happens when this topic comes up... if it's legalized, get ready for a lot more of these debates. What you see here is a good example of why it's so controversial. In my opinion you might as well argue about whether apartments should be allowed, but I'm a gambler so it's not "icky" to me. It's a freaking building where people play cards and slots. Some are good, others are bad. It depends entirely on who's running it and where it is. If it's poorly run and in a desolate area with a shitty economy, then it will be shitty. If it's well-run in a strong area, it will be good. I guarantee you we would get a good one, but even if it was mediocre it sure as hell can't be worse than Underground where people are literally being murdered.

[Sura]

Originally Posted by joecool

"are" money? Nice grammar and spelling. I don't understand this mindset. You live in a city. If you want a boring suburb, move to the other side of Gwinnett...

I forgot this one: "Dang Millennials"

I read this site for a couple years before making an account, so I was always up to date on construction. After a year or two I just assumed everyone in the city knew what is going in with Atlanta, as in massive development preparing for an influx on residents helping Atlanta grow into a bigger and better city.

Then things like this happen and I'm reminded of the the county I grew up in- Cobb.

[pica]

Originally Posted by Neighbor

A lot of talk about casinos in other cities, but I haven't seen any mention of NOLA. I thought that the casino there contributed to the city experience and was well maintained. I walked to it from my hotel, zero pedestrian issues. While I think everyone would love to see some sort of MMTH here, that's not an option for the foreseeable future and the casino does not negate that option down the road. I really want to see Atlanta get better and I don't want to wait 2 or 3 decades for it to get there. I say let the m build the casino and the residents get involved to shape how it interacts with the city. I mean, it would be awesome if the Gultch was being turned into a space station, but that's not on the table. Lets get this through but lobby to get the design over some sort of threshold. Would also be nice to get the casino to commit to street car expansion or contribution to the Stitch or some other massive infrastructure project.

New Orleans is not a good example if you're pro-casino. Harrah's is a giant box with almost nothing in the way of engagement with the streets around it. It sits in one of the busiest parts of town, but most of the facade is completely blank. It went bankrupt (for the first time) and temporarily closed less than a year after it originally opened. And worst of all, it replaced an modern architectural landmark, the Rivergate convention center.

People who are in favor of casinos may not like the fact that the rest of us are discussing the many ways in which they are problematic, but casinos are one of the most significant architectural and development topics happening in this city right now. And if the proposal doesn't include a "skyscraper" I'd say that would be surprising news.

[Libertarian]

Casinos are but one of many ways that people are separated from their hard earned money. That said, I think there are stakeholders who would like to see a Gulch built out to link Underground and the Falcons and Hawks nests etc. and any putative future transportation matrix. A no-brainer to develop tax-enhancing decked parking, hotels and amenities.

[Libertarian]

it's been done

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I work in Big Data Science/Software and IHG and Hilton are some of my biggest clients. Care to share your bio?

I work in real estate with both private and public clients.

The last I'll comment on the casino will be this: I'm not anti-casino, I think people should be allowed to gamble, I think it should be legalized. But like with any land use, or large scale development, I do think there should be some levels of restrictions.

There are many studies that show the negative externalities of casinos, but the ones I'm most concerned about are those that will stymie the future development of neighborhoods. Things such as thousands of loss-leading hotel rooms which depress nearby ADRs, insular amenities such as music venues, restaurants, etc. that, while draw people in, keep them in and depress revenue streams of outside competitors (these are the storefronts and venues in a neighborhood that make it unique, livable, and enjoyable).

I think people are overestimating the NET benefits casinos have, while only looking at the quick, short term gain. Do I want The Gulch redeveloped? Yes. Would a casino, I suppose, be better than what is currently there? Sure. But we're not limited with a choice between A and B. There are other options out there and I do not believe a casino to be in the best interest of Downtown and/or even the best proposal for The Gulch, for which there are public proposals (and private ones I have seen that are not public) that are out there.

I think a better location for a casino would be somewhere that is a bit more isolated and will allow it to be more of a destination, where dumping thousands of loss-leading hotel rooms, and restaurants won't have a detrimental affect on nearby neighborhoods. If casinos are such the draw and economic boon, then it will do well there, it does not need the downtown location.

Again, my stance is not on the morality of gambling, but on the economic benefit, for which many studies conclude (especially for casinos in urban areas), there is little to negative benefit.

[Hokiehaven]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

I work in real estate with both private and public clients.

The last I'll comment on the casino will be this: I'm not anti-casino, I think people should be allowed to gamble, I think it should be legalized. But like with any land use, or large scale development, I do think there should be some levels of restrictions.

There are many studies that show the negative externalities of casinos, but the ones I'm most concerned about are those that will stymie the future development of neighborhoods. Things such as thousands of loss-leading hotel rooms which depress nearby ADRs, insular amenities such as music venues, restaurants, etc. that, while draw people in, keep them in and depress revenue streams of outside competitors (these are the storefronts and venues in a neighborhood that make it unique, livable, and enjoyable).

I think people are overestimating the NET benefits casinos have, while only looking at the quick, short term gain. Do I want The Gulch redeveloped? Yes. Would a casino, I suppose, be better than what is currently there? Sure. But we're not limited with a choice between A and B. There are other options out there and I do not believe a casino to be in the best interest of Downtown and/or even the best proposal for The Gulch, for which there are public proposals (and private ones I have seen that are not public) that are out there.

I think a better location for a casino would be somewhere that is a bit more isolated and will allow it to be more of a destination, where dumping thousands of loss-leading hotel rooms, and restaurants won't have a detrimental affect on nearby neighborhoods. If casinos are such the draw and economic boon, then it will do well there, it does not need the downtown location.

Again, my stance is not on the morality of gambling, but on the economic benefit, for which many studies conclude (especially for casinos in urban areas), there is little to negative benefit.

[atlwarrior]

Can we please get back to actually skyscrapers that are being built today.

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by atlwarrior

Can we please get back to actually skyscrapers that are being built today.

YES, Thank you.........

[Atlanta3000]

Casino Discussion

Since when is a $2 Billion development in Downtown that will likely consist of skyscraper(s), not an appropriate topic on this forum?

[Dale]

Can someone direct me to the post concerning the casino announcement ?

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Dale

Can someone direct me to the post concerning the casino announcement ?

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2016/10/03/mgm-resorts-ceo-promotes-proposal-for-2b-atlanta.html

[sbrptree]

"The impact of casinos on neighboring property values is “unambiguously negative,” according to the economists at the National Association of Realtors. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...asinos/375691/

Only ones who seem to be in favor are areas with depressed economies hoping for a silver bullet and the casino developers pushing them.

[West Peachtree]

Originally Posted by robertjhajek

Uploaded on imgur on my phone, no idea how to make it small.

Thanks again for this great photo.

There is a Facebook page entitled "West Peachtree & 7th" that has a brief slideshow showing the 880 W.P. former Drew Eckl Farnham 4 story law office building before demolition and throughout the stages of now complete demolition. That page is not affiliated with 880, I am quite sure.

Photos and articles of a few other neighborhood development projects are included, too, though nothing inside baseball, so far.

The view of "Alexan 880" from new ALTA Midtown high rise at 8th and West Peachtree, though, can't be beat. Excited to see this 22 story skyscraper "Rise Up".

Updated photos of 880 and NCR especially, always appreciated.

Good luck Falcons, while we're at it.

[robertjhajek]

Originally Posted by West Peachtree

Thanks again for this great photo.

No worries man. I have a great view everyday of post millennium, hanover west peach, 880, modera, and NCR, i'll be sure to keep y'all updated every month.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by robertjhajek

No worries man. I have a great view everyday of post millennium, hanover west peach, 880, modera, and NCR, i'll be sure to keep y'all updated every month.

Speaking of Post Midtown Millennium- it looks like they have topped off finally since the parapet walls are already up now.





I just wish they had utilized brick on the tower portion in lieu of EIFS painted to match the brick color. The renderings intentionally don't differentiate the materials from the tower and the base but in reality it will be more decipherable.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by sbrptree

"The impact of casinos on neighboring property values is “unambiguously negative,” according to the economists at the National Association of Realtors. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...asinos/375691/

Only ones who seem to be in favor are areas with depressed economies hoping for a silver bullet and the casino developers pushing them.

This is exactly why the Gulch Downtown is appropriate for a Casino. This area has one of the lowest population densities in the city.

http://arcg.is/2kLLRpA

[thepope117]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

This is exactly why the Gulch Downtown is appropriate for a Casino. This area has one of the lowest population densities in the city.

http://arcg.is/2kLLRpA

The airport makes more sense because you won't end up cannibalizing downtown's hotels during conventions, killing further residential development, and shaping the retail potential from downtown.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Speaking of Post Midtown Millennium- it looks like they have topped off finally since the parapet walls are already up now.

I just wish they had utilized brick on the tower portion in lieu of EIFS painted to match the brick color. The renderings intentionally don't differentiate the materials from the tower and the base but in reality it will be more decipherable.

Good point about the materials. I too wish they were brick. Has me interested in what will be used for Alta on the Park, as their renderings appear to have an interesting facade.

FWIW, Post, Modera, and Apogee are making a huge impact on the skyline from the connector. AMLI is decent infill, but the other three really stand out.

[jwbab]

It appears the Commercial Land Development permit for the the Hard Rock Hotel and residences in Castleberry Hill has been filed today.

Link: LD-201700008