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  #521  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2016, 11:47 PM
BiggieSmalls BiggieSmalls is offline
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im not sure that the platforms is the issue but the area above where the waiting areas adn corridors are..

most commuters and travelers spend very little time on the platforms themselves. when the train is called you proceed to the track and board your train.. you spend all your time in teh waiting areas and moving between LIRR/Amtrak and NJT and the subway..

i think there are significant opportunities to expand the crowd areas via a shed on the north side between the two Penn Plazas and where the MSG theater now resides.

i like this compromise to keep MSG where it is and blow out the Theater at MSG which is somewhat of an eyesore across from the post office.

Move the AMTRACK crowd to the post office.. along with most of the locker rooms and staffing infrastructure and open the old AMTRAK waiting area up tp the north. would take some creative discussions with KMART across the street but something could be developed. plenty of room for NJT/LIRR and Metro North
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  #522  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2016, 1:14 AM
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People smarter than I am have concluded that you could reduce Penn Station to a smaller number of wider platforms, and move people more efficiently than the current setup.

https://pedestrianobservations.wordp...#comment-17519
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  #523  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2016, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
People smarter than I am have concluded that you could reduce Penn Station to a smaller number of wider platforms, and move people more efficiently than the current setup.

https://pedestrianobservations.wordp...#comment-17519

Interesting link. Thanks. Penn Station's platforms are such a mess. More so than the mess above it.
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  #524  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2016, 6:35 PM
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This proposal is an absolute non starter. The land over the tracks/platforms is too valuable not to build on it.

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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
People smarter than I am have concluded that you could reduce Penn Station to a smaller number of wider platforms, and move people more efficiently than the current setup.

https://pedestrianobservations.wordp...#comment-17519
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  #525  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2016, 9:16 PM
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I do like that the author is thinking about track layout, which as he points out, is noticeably absent from these other proposals. I think you could definitely speed up throughput if you could reconfigure the tracks. I liked the ideal in the comments of uneven 'spanish style' platforms. That is to say, a wider platform on one side and a smaller platform on the other. An AM peak train would open it's door towards the wider platform to unload, while passengers queued up for the return trip would be waiting on the narrower platform for the doors to open there. A PM peak train would arrive and unload first onto the narrow platform, then opening the doors to the wider platform full of waiting passengers.

One issue though is that savvy commuters (of which there are many) would quickly figure this system out. If a departure is announced on platform 2 for example, a savvy commuter may instead go to platform 1 and push against the exiting steam in order to get priority access to the seats before the doors are opened on platform 2. Controlling escalator direction could discourage that, but staircases will ensure it always happens...
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  #526  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2016, 12:29 PM
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BIG Plans Revealed For Two Penn Plaza Transformation

Nikolai Fedak
March 16, 2016

Quote:
Among the numerous hulking eyesores in new york city, two penn plaza manages to make a particularly negative impact, and its placement above penn station helps cement the latter’s status as an architectural failure. But now we have a first look at plans to transform the structure completely, created by bjarke ingels group/big for developer vornado.

The surrounding blocks are frequently subject to fantastical renderings. The hotel pennsylvania may eventually give way to a 1,200-foot office behemoth designed by pelli clarke pelli. Madison square garden’s air rights have also been imagined in the vicinity. But the plans for two penn plaza are grounded in a reality much closer to realization, as vornado has publicly stated it is going to transform both one and two penn plaza.

Continue Reading





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  #527  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2016, 4:22 PM
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Is it just me or is Bjarke Ingels designing every large project nowadays?

I'd much prefer SHoP. This loos like rubbish, and its one of the few times I'm vocal about a design. Something about it I just can't put my finger on it, but its not sitting well with me.


They need to get some of the facade treatment designs that where used for that Metlife redesign.
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  #528  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2016, 5:27 PM
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Truth be told, BIG only has so much to work with. MSG is an unmitigated, unholy abortion of design.
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  #529  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 12:38 AM
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BIG's plan looks like shit. Even with the turd they have to work with, this can absolutely be done better.
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  #530  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 12:44 AM
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It's quite creative, to say the least. I rather like the way it feels like the shaft façade can't contain the base.
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  #531  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
It's quite creative, to say the least. I rather like the way it feels like the shaft façade can't contain the base.
Yeah, same with me. The base gives it such a uniqueness that I don't recall seeing before. Should make a great pedestrian view!
However, the top portion could be more than a box with a textured curtain.
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  #532  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
BIG's plan looks like shit. Even with the turd they have to work with, this can absolutely be done better.
I actually think it's quite creative. I've thought of a similar solution for Union Station in Chicago. Penn Station and One Penn Plaza are both immovable objects, so BIG tried to "create" open space between the two by reducing the tower at its base to just a structural skeleton. The facade blowout also creates a canopy to provide a big front porch for Penn. Not sure I dig the ruffle, but the concept is solid.

In BIG's shoes, I would removed the floorplates close to the bottom entirely and open up the lower levels of the building to create a grand space full of columns. The office lobby would just be a small floating platform inside this space. You could (maybe) make up the lost square footage by adding to the top of the building.
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  #533  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 11:31 PM
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I won't waste a bunch of words. It is creative — but it is also stupid. A gimmick design that people will hate in 20 years because it looks ridiculous.
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  #534  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 11:50 PM
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BIG please go back to Europe....
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  #535  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 5:27 AM
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BIG please go back to Europe....
As much as i love his design philosophy, I'm unfortunately getting more and more annoyed with his New York designs. Ingels is great at designing for European cities, where he is free to establish new and original skyscraper aesthetics in places which don't traditionally have skyscrapers, but New York actually does have skyscrapers, and, if i may add, a highly established local aesthetic for them...

This means that historically, a lot of the more original, out of the box (literally) designs don't age well in NY. I seriously wonder about the future of the BIG Pyramid, for instance. It is a gorgeous building, don't misunderstand me.. but in the future, when it is surrounded on three sides by tall, most likely rectangular buildings, will it still look so good?

The best architects for NY are ones who are able to use Gotham's sharply angular and subtly ominous aesthetic as an asset (SHoP has this perfected Down. To. The. Tee.), rather than see it simply as the barrier of tradition begging to be broken.

My conclusion? What Ingels needs to do is move to LA. He would be able to do there what he has done so well in Europe: create the high-rise aesthetic for a currently low-rise city. If he really worked his magic in SoCal, his influence on the urban fabric of the region could last for hundreds of years.

[Ingels also has something that could give him a lot more power in LA than other architects, which is his deeply human-oriented style and ability to connect with the general population. When people see Ingels's designs and press conferences and youtube videos, its as if they immediately know he's on their side. Likablility is unfortunately something that is very rare in the architecture and development community (especially in LA), and Ingels practically oozes it. If theres anyone on this planet who can break the NIMBYs of LA, it might very well be Bjarke Ingels.]
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Last edited by jbermingham123; Mar 18, 2016 at 5:57 AM.
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  #536  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jbermingham123 View Post
The best architects for NY are ones who are able to use Gotham's sharply angular and subtly ominous aesthetic as an asset (SHoP has this perfected Down. To. The. Tee.), rather than see it simply as the barrier of tradition begging to be broken.
I agree. We need more Gotham like towers. SHoP understands this. Ingels thinks more in the future while SHoP combines element that exist in the city, but only translates them to the 21st Century.
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  #537  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 3:51 PM
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I know I am preaching to the choir here, but the only way to truly bring back Penn is to raze the tower and stadium that sits on top of it.

I'd love a modern take on the old Penn Station. Perhaps all the architecture geeks should write their representatives and city officials to tell them this. Unlike years past, there seems to be genuine interest on a 1st rate rehabilitation of the area.
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  #538  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 5:11 PM
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Yes and yes
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  #539  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by patriotizzy View Post
Yeah, same with me. The base gives it such a uniqueness that I don't recall seeing before. Should make a great pedestrian view!
However, the top portion could be more than a box with a textured curtain.
Eh, the way I think about it is that the station is bursting out of the '70s box that's imprisoned it for a generation. In which context (1) the '70s look of the shaft needs to be maintained, and (2)
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I actually think it's quite creative. I've thought of a similar solution for Union Station in Chicago. Penn Station and One Penn Plaza are both immovable objects, so BIG tried to "create" open space between the two by reducing the tower at its base to just a structural skeleton. The facade blowout also creates a canopy to provide a big front porch for Penn. Not sure I dig the ruffle, but the concept is solid.

In BIG's shoes, I would removed the floorplates close to the bottom entirely and open up the lower levels of the building to create a grand space full of columns. The office lobby would just be a small floating platform inside this space. You could (maybe) make up the lost square footage by adding to the top of the building.
the success or failure of the proposal will be based almost entirely on how airy they make the waiting area feel. Succeed, and they've made an iconic new waiting area for New York, one that actually manages to respond to the site in a deeply visceral way. Fail, and we're right back to where we started.
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  #540  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2016, 4:43 AM
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Looks like Marilyn Monroe's skirt getting blown up by the subway vent.
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