24 hour Skytrain - Facts vs Fiction

[hollywoodnorth]

I always hear the BIG misnomer that we can't have 24/7 Skytrain Service due to the needs of maintenance work. And I bought into the rational.

but then I read this on the Copenhagen Metro which is very similar to the Canada Line on Skytrain.

from WIKI >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Metro

Initially, the system operated trains from 01:00 to 05:00 only on Thursdays through Saturdays, but, starting on 19 March 2009, night service was extended to the rest of the week. This caused a logistical challenge, because Metro Service used the nights for maintenance. The routes were therefore set up in such a way that the system could be operated on only a single track, leaving the other free for work.

and the news source >> http://myldretid.dk/nyheder/nr/599



so I guess it comes down to WHERE THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY

[Spork]

Where there is funding there's a way... oh, wait!

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Spork

Where there is funding there's a way... oh, wait!

Yeah. Funding seems to be a problem for Translink.

If only those guys can get their act together...

[nname]

The Copenhagen Metro is so short that for a headway of 20min, each of the branch can run as a shuttle train (thus only use 1 track), and the main line only require 1 passing point.

How would you run SkyTrain with only one track and 20min headway? From the track diagram, it doesn't seems possible... (Surrey segment and Millennium Line is too long without a pocket track; Canada Line doesn't even have one pocket track)

[Waders]

As a start, Translink should adjust when the first train starts.
For example, the first Expo train on Sunday leaving Waterfront Station is 7:50am. If you want to get to Metrotown area before 8am from downtown, the only option is bus.
There is definitely a demand to have service start earlier as by the time the first train arrived at 29th street station, it was already packed with passengers.

[Spork]

Agreed. We need to really improve Sunday and Saturday sevice levels. Saturdays are always super busy (busier than weekdays) as has always been the case with SkyTrain, but it still seems like frequency on Saturdays is quite poor.

[nickinacan]

You can't really compare Vancouver and Copenhagen when it comes to transit. Copenhagen already has an amazing rail network (S-Train) that covers literally all of Copenhagen. They are even connected to the InterCity trains that will bring you all over Denmark, and feature connections into Sweden and Germany (Ever seen a train drive directly onto a ferry?). Vancouver has NONE of this. Not to mention that it is insanely expensive to own and operate a car in Denmark, so the majority of people cycle or take transit to work. Yes there is such thing as a bike rush hour and bike traffic jams... even with multi-lane bike lanes.

[Canadian Mind]

Couldn't certain stations be used as "passing points" that are alternated throughout the night?

[SpongeG]

if they have to do maintenance why not make it 24 hours on friday saturday and sunday and do the closures on mon-thurs

[delboy]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

if they have to do maintenance why not make it 24 hours on friday saturday and sunday and do the closures on mon-thurs

good point, and with the stricter drink and drive laws, you'd think they'd want to offer alternatives since they are hell bent on getting everyone to leave their cars at home.

[officedweller]

Copenhagen charges to take a bike or a dog onto a train.

http://intl.m.dk/Drive+the+Metro/Tickets/Bikes.aspx

http://intl.m.dk/Drive+the+Metro/Tickets/Dogs.aspx

But kids under 12 accompanied by an adult (max 2 per adult) are free.

http://intl.m.dk/Drive+the+Metro/Tickets.aspx

[Metro-One]

Maybe a good compromise on skytrain would be to run the trains non stop from Friday morning to Monday 1:00 AM.

After 2:00 AM friday / saturday the Expo Line leaving downtown would only run once every 10 or 15 minutes until 5AM or so the next morning.

The reason why I say this is because each train should then have a security officer and or an attendant on it from 2AM Fri/Sat until 5AM or so.

This would lead to added security during a period where most people on the transit would be drunk party goers (of course, according to whatsnext on the gang shooting thread no one from the burbs who parties downtown on friday/Saturday night takes transit anyways, so maybe we should just shutdown skytrain at 9pm on those nights)

[nname]

After 10pm each day, break the Millennium Line at Columbia (no overlapping segment)

Run a train every 6min from 10pm to 12am on both lines.

Drop the headway to 10min on both lines after 12am till end of service.

Run a train every 20min from 2am to 7am on Sat and Sun morning; run a train every 10min from 7am to 8am on Sunday morning.

Resource reallocation, I guess...

[racc]

Originally Posted by nname

The Copenhagen Metro is so short that for a headway of 20min, each of the branch can run as a shuttle train (thus only use 1 track), and the main line only require 1 passing point.

How would you run SkyTrain with only one track and 20min headway? From the track diagram, it doesn't seems possible... (Surrey segment and Millennium Line is too long without a pocket track; Canada Line doesn't even have one pocket track)

They could run shuttles between certain stations on one track. People would then have to get off at that station and get on the next shuttle.

Waterfront - Commercial/Broadway - 9 minutes
Commercial/Broadway - Metrotown - 9 minutes
Metrotown - New Westminster - 11 minutes
New Westminster - King George 10 minutes

Fortunately, these are all major destinations/transfer points so many people would be getting off anyway and the travel times for the segments is nearly the same.

While not perfect, it would be an option. It would require three transfers to get to Surrey but it would beat walking and be much cheaper than a cab.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Or you could just close off 1 side at a time. There should be enough switches that you can just run trains in opposing directions on the same track and have one side pull off onto a siding or the closed section for the opposing train to pass. I can't think of any area where you don't pass a set of switches every 10 minutes or so.

[worldwide]

well they have to maintain the switches too.

[trofirhen]

In Paris, they fairly recently extended the operating hours of the Métro (subway) an extra hour later on Friday and Saturday nights, so that the trains are running until about 2 a.m. with normal frequencies.

Given that Friday and Saturday nights would call for later service, for the usual reasons - nightlife, parties, etc - does this not seem like a reasonable concept for Vancouver as well? It does not seem extravagant or technically complicated to me, at any rate.

[volguus zildrohar]

The maintainance idea always throws me for a loop. Why are some systems able to run trains 24/7 while others shut down at 12/1am? Are their rails made of better steel?

In Philadelphia, the regular city subway system shuts down at ~12:30am seven days a week though on certain days of the week those trains should run well into the early morning and maintainence is the primary purpose given for this. However, PATCO, a commuter rail line analagous to New York's PATH train that services Center City, runs 24/7 and half of the infrastructure is as old as Philadelphia's subway is. Maintainence still gets done and people can still get around.

Is there a real need for Skytrain service into the wee small hours?

[DKaz]

New York has 4 tracks on many of their lines, so they can run trains on two of the tracks.

[Nutterbug]

How about restoring the old at grade Interurban track between New Westminster and Vancouver? Remnants of it still exist from New West up to Nelson Avenue in Burnaby.

Obviously, it would be a waste to rebuild it and tunnel it through sections that have since been built over just for a late night Skytrain backup system by itself, but combined with a new rail bridge at New Westminster, could be shared for the following uses:

• Late night Skytrain alternative.
• Amtrak train (future high speed rail) to Seattle.
• South of Fraser commuter rail to Surrey, Langley and Abbotsford. (It could help to alleviate the overflow on the Expo Line when it reaches capacity.)
• VIA train to Toronto.
• Possible passenger train to Kamloops and other points in the Interior.

Could it work?