Historic Halifax

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

Man, you are such a downer.

Well, when people like the author of that Herald piece (along with many others in this town) overvalue something that is largely a re-creation of something that may or may not have actually been there, the record needs to be set straight. I have been consistent in my view on this for a long, long time. The waterfront has a certain small-time carnival-style charm but is hardly the world-class thing many claim.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Too bad that area is so Disneyfied now, could be any bunch of replica old buildings. Certainly not authentic like Colonial Williamsburg for example.

I'm not sure how you can get more 'authentic' than the original materials that are in those old warehouses and the Morse's building. If they still attempted to maintain their original purposes (i.e. to be 'more authentic'), then they would be outdated and not practical, and people such as yourself would say they are not financially viable to keep and should be torn down.

Therefore, your comment doesn't really seem very logical, IMHO.

BTW, I was in Historic Properties this evening, and there were many, many people milling about and enjoying the premises. This seems to qualify it as a success.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I'm not sure how you can get more 'authentic' than the original materials that are in those old warehouses and the Morse's building. If they still attempted to maintain their original purposes (i.e. to be 'more authentic'), then they would be outdated and not practical, and people such as yourself would say they are not financially viable to keep and should be torn down.

Therefore, your comment doesn't really seem very logical, IMHO.

BTW, I was in Historic Properties this evening, and there were many, many people milling about and enjoying the premises. This seems to qualify it as a success.

The interiors of Historic Properties are like those of a 1970s/80s shopping mall. I have only been in the resto part of the Morses building and that certainly is not as it was either.

If it is a success. the area is succeeding as a theme park and not as a historic preservation.

[someone123]

I thought this article was interesting:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...inal-1.4616879

Fort Clarence was built in 1754 on the Dartmouth side of the harbour, near the refinery. I thought it was destroyed, but it was only covered up in the 1940's. The article shows some photos and talks about possible restoration now that the refinery is no longer in operation.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I thought this article was interesting:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...inal-1.4616879

Fort Clarence was built in 1754 on the Dartmouth side of the harbour, near the refinery. I thought it was destroyed, but it was only covered up in the 1940's. The article shows some photos and talks about possible restoration now that the refinery is no longer in operation.

Fascinating. I wasn't aware of it either. One would think there would be challenges to making it accessible to the public as the site is still being used for oil storage, but at least the company says it's open to dialogue.

It would be nice if the feds could get something going as it should be a national historic site, though the fact that York Redoubt remains in a poor state of repair doesn't add a lot of hope that this could happen.

Perhaps as the world shifts away from oil as a main energy source, the land use for the site will shift to other things, and perhaps something may be done with the fort. In the meantime, what an interesting story. Thanks for posting it.

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Fascinating. I wasn't aware of it either. One would think there would be challenges to making it accessible to the public as the site is still being used for oil storage, but at least the company says it's open to dialogue.

It would be nice if the feds could get something going as it should be a national historic site, though the fact that York Redoubt remains in a poor state of repair doesn't add a lot of hope that this could happen.

Perhaps as the world shifts away from oil as a main energy source, the land use for the site will shift to other things, and perhaps something may be done with the fort. In the meantime, what an interesting story. Thanks for posting it.

York Redoubt has come under a few positive changes over the past couple years, but you're right it does leave some scarce hope about this site. Would be cool to see it unearthed, but how much money would it cost to decontaminate the site. Makes me wonder why they even allowed a fort to be buried for an oil company anyways?

[mleblanc]

Tram tracks being dug up on Gottingen

[Jstaleness]

Makes me sad, I have always hoped we'd see a modern street car system brought back to the downtown area.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

Makes me sad, I have always hoped we'd see a modern street car system brought back to the downtown area.

But if they did they would likely have to tear up the old rails and install new rail beds anyhow.

But I do understand - I always find it kind of neat when chunks of pavement come up in the winter and expose old cobblestone and rails - just knowing it's still down there seems 'neat' to me...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

York Redoubt has come under a few positive changes over the past couple years, but you're right it does leave some scarce hope about this site. Would be cool to see it unearthed, but how much money would it cost to decontaminate the site. Makes me wonder why they even allowed a fort to be buried for an oil company anyways?

I'm glad to hear that York Redoubt has had some improvements. Haven't been out there in years, but did see some pics online showing a state of neglect in the recent past.

Site decontamination is something that I hadn't considered, though one would think it would be required in either circumstance. The main difference, I imagine, would be the extra requirements to make it an archaeological excavation with the goal of preservation of the fort underneath. I would expect the budget for such an operation to be easily predicted, though, so it would likely come down to the political will involved to preserve this piece of history.

As to why it was buried? Not that unusual for the times, I think, especially in Nova Scotia. The land was needed for use by an oil company investing in the local economy... it was cheaper to bury it than remove it, plus there was probably little need felt at the time to preserve some old fort for the sake of history. Of course, those are just my thoughts - not fact-based in any way...

[Keith P.]

This tram map of the NSLP system from just before it was abandoned shows its extent.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

This tram map of the NSLP system from just before it was abandoned shows its extent.

Wow - more extensive than I'd imagined. Thanks for sharing.

[OldDartmouthMark]

That is fairly extensive, especially when you consider the size of the city at the time. I was surprised to see that coverage extended into Point Pleasant Park.

Also noted is the line specifically to allow people to shop at the large Simpsons store not far from the current Armdale Roundabout. Below is a pic from, I guess, the 1930s, where you can see the tram line loop just in front of the Simpsons store:


Source

[OldDartmouthMark]

And here is a view from the ground:



Source



Source

[Keith P.]

I believe that was called the "Simpsons Loop". The area surrounding it was landscaped into an attractive urban park-like setting. I remember as a tyke being with my mother at that location and catching one of the Brill trolleys that replaced the trams in that same spot. It was rather pleasant to wait there on a nice day. You can see especially in the first picture how undeveloped the area was when that store was built. It really was out in the boonies. I wonder if Simpsons contributed to the cost of extending the tram service there.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Wow - more extensive than I'd imagined. Thanks for sharing.

It's worth noting that the tracks along Barrington Street once went even deeper into the north end. The original main line (1866) extended from Inglis Street along Campbell Road (Barrington Street) to the first railway station at Richmond (Duffus Street). The line was wrecked in the 1917 Explosion and the tracks were never replaced past Young Street.

The pre-Explosion street railway network can been seen in this 1910 map: the tram lines are showed as dotted red lines.


Source: Halifax Municipal Archives

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Thanks for another great image, Mark. That’s an interesting double bill at the Garrick: The Benny Goodman Story, starring Steve Allen, released in February of ‘56, paired with a six-year old Audie Murphy horse opera.

Of course the Garrick — the guts of it, at least, is now Neptune Theatre — so perhaps the only building in the photo still being used for its original purpose.

I noticed recently that Halifax Municipal Archives posted some photos of the corner of Argyle and Sackville (presumably in preparation for the new Canada Permanent Building about to be built on that corner), that I had never seen before, including these photos of the Garrick. They are from 1959 (confirmed by the movies on the bill, and the cars - brand new 1959 Pontiac sitting there). I can see how the Garrick would have been incorporated into the Neptune refurb.

I'm struck by the tall, narrow Maritime Furriers building next door. What a neat design, and an example of making the most of a narrow lot. Presumably it was taken down before or during the remake of the Neptune?



Canada Permanent site photographs
New Service Restaurant on the corner of Sackville and Argyle Streets
Retrieval code: CR2.13
[195-]



Canada Permanent site photographs
New Service Restaurant on the corner of Sackville and Argyle Streets
Retrieval code: CR2.12
[195-]


The pics also give decent views of the Tramway, Zellers and a good view down Sackville Street to see how it looked 60 years ago.

For comparison's sake, here is how it looks today:
https://goo.gl/maps/kCR4UgdSCRywYr179

[Keith P.]

It's odd, I have a memory of that Maritime Furriers building, but I don't know if it comes from actually seeing it or just seeing pictures of it. Maybe as you say it stood until the Neptune redevelopment. I can't recall.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It's odd, I have a memory of that Maritime Furriers building, but I don't know if it comes from actually seeing it or just seeing pictures of it. Maybe as you say it stood until the Neptune redevelopment. I can't recall.

I'm in the same boat, actually. I'm hoping somebody here will have a memory of it. Likely there is a historical photo online somewhere that might be able to narrow down the timeline somewhat.

[Keith P.]

In the same vein, I am unable to recall what was on the corner where the New Service Restaurant was prior to the redevelopment of Neptune, say, in the 1980s.