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  #1421  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2013, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
If they build a new arena outside of the downtown vicinity, it'll be a clear indicator to me that any turn-around downtown will be minimal at best. This other arena will compete with Copps for events and take a lot away from it. They also lose the potential opportunity of hosting 41 home NHL games.

We already missed the boat with the stadium, and with an arena elsewhere - not only will there be no increase reasons for people to come downtown, we'll be taking some of those reasons away.
Downtown renewal is a separate issue. I don't think a new arena elsewhere would be an indicator of downtown progress; it would be an indicator of the owner/builder's wants and plan for housing a team.

Losing activity at Copps wouldn't be welcome, but change in the core needs to continue to be based on the very things that have been happening, albeit slowly - increasing the productive land and building uses (residential, employment, commercial/retail, culture/arts, restaurants, etc.)

EDIT: "separate" wasn't the right thing to say - activity downtown does relate to growth/renewal. I just think that in the big picture the arena's role is easily overstated, and if a new arena took away shows and sports it would not kill the broader potential for downtown Hamilton or lead to a "minimal at best" turn-around.

Last edited by ScreamingViking; Dec 16, 2013 at 1:26 AM.
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  #1422  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2015, 9:08 PM
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A very interesting read

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle22646466/

Summed up, I think I read Andlauer may buy the Otters and relocate it to Hamilton. In 2017 move the Bulldogs to Laval. Andlauer may build a 10,000 seat arena in downtown Hamilton.

"In April, 2013, he said he would like to buy an OHL team and build a new arena in downtown Hamilton; some consider FirstOntario Centre, which opened in 1985, a worn-out facility."
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  #1423  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2015, 9:38 PM
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I would love to see Jr hockey back in Hamilton.
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  #1424  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2015, 10:02 PM
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It would be wonderful if that did happen and the facility were built at the West Harbour. If that were the case though, I think Copps would eventually be demolished or somehow re-purposed into some kind permanent trade centre else if it were even possible. I don't think it'll ever be host to an NHL team.
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  #1425  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
A very interesting read

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle22646466/

Summed up, I think I read Andlauer may buy the Otters and relocate it to Hamilton. In 2017 move the Bulldogs to Laval. Andlauer may build a 10,000 seat arena in downtown Hamilton.

"In April, 2013, he said he would like to buy an OHL team and build a new arena in downtown Hamilton; some consider FirstOntario Centre, which opened in 1985, a worn-out facility."
That Katz link was a part of the stadium drama too wasn't it. I recall that at one point Katz was going to come in and take over the stadium and be the saviour of downtown; I guess that was all leverage.
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  #1426  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2015, 10:06 PM
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I've read Mac also wants a 10,000 arena so they could partner up to fund the arena.
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  #1427  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 1:30 AM
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If Hamilton were to ever have a chance at an NHL team (huge if, I know), Copps is out of the equation and so is a 10,000 seat arena. If we have a 10,000 seat arena built, you can bet that no public money will ever be used to build an NHL-ready arena in the future - sinking any chance we had at an NHL team.

It'd be nice to do it right the first time and just build a 15,000 seat arena in Hamilton - similar to the MTS Centre in Winnipeg. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
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  #1428  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 2:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
A very interesting read

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle22646466/

Summed up, I think I read Andlauer may buy the Otters and relocate it to Hamilton. In 2017 move the Bulldogs to Laval. Andlauer may build a 10,000 seat arena in downtown Hamilton.

"In April, 2013, he said he would like to buy an OHL team and build a new arena in downtown Hamilton; some consider FirstOntario Centre, which opened in 1985, a worn-out facility."
I can guarantee you he won't be putting up his own money to buiild a 10 000 seat arena and I'd bet my life the city isn't shelling out 300 million for a new arena lol. Especially now that Copps is managed by global spectrum who has ties to Live Nation which basically has a monopoly on concert bookings.
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  #1429  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 2:20 AM
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I've read Mac also wants a 10,000 arena so they could partner up to fund the arena.
There was a rumor of that. But I have heard that a condition of Ron Joyce donating money to the football stadium was that no hockey arena could be built on campus as he wanted football as the main attraction.

That plus Mac's campus is already ridiculously cramped let alone with another 10 000 seat arena. The citizens of Westdale already lose it because of the students and football games. A 10 000 seat arena wouldn't fly. Those at the ticats games this past summer saw how crowded it already is.
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  #1430  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 2:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
If Hamilton were to ever have a chance at an NHL team (huge if, I know), Copps is out of the equation and so is a 10,000 seat arena. If we have a 10,000 seat arena built, you can bet that no public money will ever be used to build an NHL-ready arena in the future - sinking any chance we had at an NHL team.

It'd be nice to do it right the first time and just build a 15,000 seat arena in Hamilton - similar to the MTS Centre in Winnipeg. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
I think 17 to 18 000 would be a better number. MTS centre just announced today they were expanding the arena with another row of seats adding 300 seats. If they could there sweet spot for capacity would be around 17 000. Still the trend is to build in the 18 000 to 17 000 range and create scarcity as opposed to the arenas in the 90s built with 20 000 capacity. For example Ottawa has an arena with 20 000 seats that often sees 1000 to 2000 empty seats. Ottawa would have been better off with 18 000 seats.
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  #1431  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 2:54 AM
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I think 17 to 18 000 would be a better number. MTS centre just announced today they were expanding the arena with another row of seats adding 300 seats. If they could there sweet spot for capacity would be around 17 000. Still the trend is to build in the 18 000 to 17 000 range and create scarcity as opposed to the arenas in the 90s built with 20 000 capacity. For example Ottawa has an arena with 20 000 seats that often sees 1000 to 2000 empty seats. Ottawa would have been better off with 18 000 seats.
I agree that less is more... and I don't think Hamilton would have an issue selling out a 17-18k arena... but I'm mainly thinking about cost. Mind you, I don't really know how much of a difference in cost it would be between 15k and 17-18k.
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  #1432  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 3:39 AM
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I cannot imagine that McMaster could ever make any use out of a 10,000 seat hockey arena.

The Canadian university all-time regular season attendance record was just set at 8882 fans this month and the previous record was 6016.


Link: http://english.cis-sic.ca/sports/cis...s/20150115-cgy

Most games have attendance in the hundreds.

A 10,000 seat arena would also likely be too large for an OHL team in Hamilton.

I think that a 17,000 seat arena is a continued good thing for this city. Even if the NHL never shows up, it makes lots of events that would never make their way to Hamilton possible... and construction of a smaller arena would be the death of the dream.
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  #1433  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 3:50 AM
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London knights plays in 9,000 seat capacity at Budweiser Gardens , Kitchener Rangers plays at 7,000 seat capacity arena. I don't see any problem if Hamilton built 10,000 seats arena.
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  #1434  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 4:20 AM
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I was of the understanding that Copps (First Ontario) could host an NHL team with $40-$50 million in upgrades. Much cheaper than new: MTS Centre was close to $140 million to build
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  #1435  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 4:23 AM
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London knights plays in 9,000 seat capacity at Budweiser Gardens , Kitchener Rangers plays at 7,000 seat capacity arena. I don't see any problem if Hamilton built 10,000 seats arena.
Difference is Hamilton is NHL or nothing. We has ohl teams and they failed. Hamilton didnt come out for ohl games like they do in kitchener and london. We're too close to Toronto

Woukd hamilton fans want to play against teams from peterborough and owen sound or bigger cdn or american cities.
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  #1436  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 4:29 AM
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I was of the understanding that Copps (First Ontario) could host an NHL team with $40-$50 million in upgrades. Much cheaper than new: MTS Centre was close to $140 million to build
Jesus. God no. The ship has saled on copps. It was built before luxury suites and club areas were the norm. Its 30 years old. It would cost more to renovate it to host an nhl team than it would cost to build a new arena from scratch.

40 to 50 million wouldnt do nearly enough to get it to MTS standards. It would be more in the range of 200 to 250 million or more. Theyd have to raise the roof build a second concourse on top of the original. Cut into the arena bowl to connect to the second concourse. you can see how it was built with expnion in mind. The exterior red underside of the upper bowl is exposed and is where the second concourse would have been built that led underneath the upper bowl. And the roof was built to be lifted to add a ring of suites.underneath the stands at floor level there is tonss of unused space that was to be built into private clubs but instead is open space with a concrete floor. But ya it would cost way too much and so many other areas are obsolete.
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  #1437  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 4:34 AM
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London knights plays in 9,000 seat capacity at Budweiser Gardens , Kitchener Rangers plays at 7,000 seat capacity arena. I don't see any problem if Hamilton built 10,000 seats arena.
Thats a neat facility that London has
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  #1438  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 1:45 PM
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There was a rumor of that. But I have heard that a condition of Ron Joyce donating money to the football stadium was that no hockey arena could be built on campus as he wanted football as the main attraction.

That plus Mac's campus is already ridiculously cramped let alone with another 10 000 seat arena. The citizens of Westdale already lose it because of the students and football games. A 10 000 seat arena wouldn't fly. Those at the ticats games this past summer saw how crowded it already is.
The arena definitely won't be located within the campus. They are exploring an offsite location. So either way they'll have to work with the city.
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  #1439  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 6:36 PM
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The arena definitely won't be located within the campus. They are exploring an offsite location. So either way they'll have to work with the city.
Regardless I find it hard to believe the city is going to provide funding for a 10 000 seat arena lol. The universtiy has already been running a deficit. CIS hockey draws a couple hundred ppl per game in Ontario. A good night would be a couple thousand, nevermind 10 000.

I dont see the city who only paid 1/3 of the cost of a new ticats stadium after Ivor Wynne was 80 years old shelling out half the cost of a 10 000 seat arena when copps is fine, seats 17 000 and is only 30 years old. Not to mention they probably signed a non compete clause with global spectrum which has a substantial severence fee.

And like I said Mac has been running a deficit and has been falling behind on building maintenance. They aren't in a position to shell out $100 million for a new arena when the majority of their new buildings are funded through private donations. They're priority is education, not a hockey team.

If Mac really wanted a team they could easily play at market Street Arena in Dundas which seats close to 2000 with standing room.

Lets have a look at this past weeks OUA hockey attendance....

104 @Laurier
101 @ queens
254 @uoit
582 @carleton
300 @waterloo
100 @Toronto
100 @Nippising

And you mean to tell me Mac wants to build a 10 000 seat arena in partnership with the city for its proposed CIS hockey team which has to compete for fans with an AHL or OHL team. When we still have to either A) sever the deal with gobal spectrum at copps and pay for demolition or B) continue to run copps and sink millions into the upkeep of it while forcing it to compete with the new arena for events.

Call me crazy but im willing to bet a lot of money a 10 000 seat arena aint coming to hamilton.
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  #1440  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2015, 7:12 PM
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I hope nobody builds a 10,000 seat arena in Hamilton. It would be pointless. The only hockey that would do well in Hamilton is NHL. Nobody cares about anything else. Better to update the existing 20,000 seat arena and focus on big name concerts. With 6 million people to draw from, they should be able to pack that arena at least 100 times a year.
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