How Lincoln Park Gentrified - Chicago Magazine

[10023]

That’s all really on the periphery of the neighborhood though. I’ve lived in Lincoln Park and never considered Clybourn/North to be in the neighborhood, let alone Elston. That particular shitshow is a function of the Kennedy destroying the urban fabric, really.

[IrishIllini]

Elston is bad west of Ashland up to Diversey and Clybourn from start to finish. Both have potential IMO with the recent interest in the north branch.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by 10023

But why does Lincoln Park need to be denser? It’s already one of the liveliest, most densely populated, and ‘successful’ parts of Chicago. And here is lots of traffic, and the trains are overcrowded.

Complete and utter nonsense, yes Lincoln Park has been historically a lively and pleasant place, but large sections of it's commerical corridors have suffered near outright collapse as the two hospitals that used to be there were shuttered greatly reducing daytime population and foot traffic. Lincoln Ave is half abandoned for two blocks in each direction of Fullerton, that is NOT a healthy neighborhood. Lincoln Park desperately needs renewed density or it will slowly turn into a decrepit she'll of it's former self. It is already outclassed in nightlife and shopping by places like Andersonville, Logan Square, and Wicker Park, now the last vesitages of it's formerly thriving nightlife and dining scene are petering out.

I love all the people on SSP who post about places they haven't been in years, maybe decades. They have some serious shit to sort out in LP or it will slowly devolve into a big bland gated community of mansions with no commerical heart and nothing of interest going on. I already rarely got there simply because there's not much worth traveling there to do or see. It's no longer vibrant in a way it once was...

[tjp]

^good to know I’m not alone with that sentiment!

[10023]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Complete and utter nonsense, yes Lincoln Park has been historically a lively and pleasant place, but large sections of it's commerical corridors have suffered near outright collapse as the two hospitals that used to be there were shuttered greatly reducing daytime population and foot traffic. Lincoln Ave is half abandoned for two blocks in each direction of Fullerton, that is NOT a healthy neighborhood. Lincoln Park desperately needs renewed density or it will slowly turn into a decrepit she'll of it's former self. It is already outclassed in nightlife and shopping by places like Andersonville, Logan Square, and Wicker Park, now the last vesitages of it's formerly thriving nightlife and dining scene are petering out.

I love all the people on SSP who post about places they haven't been in years, maybe decades. They have some serious shit to sort out in LP or it will slowly devolve into a big bland gated community of mansions with no commerical heart and nothing of interest going on. I already rarely got there simply because there's not much worth traveling there to do or see. It's no longer vibrant in a way it once was...

Then it was never vibrant in any great way. The bars were all fratty dives. LP has never had any decent nightlife, with the sole exception of Kingston Mines (to my knowledge, still there).

A bunch of hospital foot traffic frequenting Subway and McDonald’s or that terrible Mexican restaurant isn’t missed by anyone in the neighborhood. And a lot of Lincoln Avenue just needs to be redeveloped.

A wealthy enclave isn’t for you, but it isn’t a failed neighborhood.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by 10023

Then it was never vibrant in any great way. The bars were all fratty dives. LP has never had any decent nightlife, with the sole exception of Kingston Mines (to my knowledge, still there).

A bunch of hospital foot traffic frequenting Subway and McDonald’s or that terrible Mexican restaurant isn’t missed by anyone in the neighborhood. And a lot of Lincoln Avenue just needs to be redeveloped.

A wealthy enclave isn’t for you, but it isn’t a failed neighborhood.

This isn’t about being a wealthy enclave. There are healthy wealthy enclaves, and there are unhealthy ones.

The Gold Coast is a healthy one. So is Streeterville. So is the West Loop.

They have density, they have a mix of uses. Dense projects get built there.

But Lincoln Parkers are notorious for their NIMBYism. I don’t know if it’s a xenophobia, or perhaps if people who are utter douchebags just gravitate toward that part of town. I could afford to live there but if I end up moving to the city, I already know that LP just isn’t for me.

[cannedairspray]

Originally Posted by 10023

Then it was never vibrant in any great way. The bars were all fratty dives.

Yeah, I'm getting the vibe that Louis thought it "used to be better" because he liked that scene 10-15 years ago and now he's kinda over it. Irish Eyes was the pinnacle of bardom in 1998, when it was one of the few bars I could get into when I was 17. Even in 2002, though, I wouldn't set foot there. Did it really get much worse or did my standards change?

[10023]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

This isn’t about being a wealthy enclave. There are healthy wealthy enclaves, and there are unhealthy ones.

The Gold Coast is a healthy one. So is Streeterville. So is the West Loop.

They have density, they have a mix of uses. Dense projects get built there.

But Lincoln Parkers are notorious for their NIMBYism. I don’t know if it’s a xenophobia, or perhaps if people who are utter douchebags just gravitate toward that part of town. I could afford to live there but if I end up moving to the city, I already know that LP just isn’t for me.

The West Loop is not a wealthy enclave, at all. Having wealth doesn’t make it an enclave. It’s still an emerging neighborhood.

The Gold Coast is if we’re talking about the real Gold Coast, which is almost entirely residential and no one goes to unless they live there. Is that “unhealthy”?

Dense projects do not get built in the Gold Coast anymore (I mean, 65 E Goethe was the best they could do on a prime lakefront parcel). What you’re probably thinking of (south of Division and west of Rush) is part of downtown, and not a neighborhood (or part of the Gold Coast). Streeterville and River North are definitely downtown, and not neighborhoods.

[the urban politician]

The West Loop is still developing, yes, but it will certainly be one of Chicago’s wealthier neighborhoods when all is said and done. 7 figure condos are selling there.

It has NIMBY’s, but they don’t go balls out to block reasonably sized developments like they do in Lincoln Park.

And hell, I’d be willing to wager that 65 E Goethe would be easier to build in the Gold Coast than in LP. Try building ANYTHING taller than 4 stories (actually, LPers just shot down a 4 story proposal on Lincoln Ave that replaces a gas station—the same height as neighboring buildings) in LP. I bet you won’t get anywhere.

That level says something about the mindset of the people. And that’s a mindset I wouldn’t want to be around. Hence I could never see myself living there.

[the urban politician]

Here it is, a perfectly appropriate TOD of a mere 4 stories on a major thoroughfare got blocked by the community due to “traffic and safety concerns” as well as concerns about “sight lines”, whatever in God’s fuck that means:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/4/11...nt-gas-station

[10023]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The West Loop is still developing, yes, but it will certainly be one of Chicago’s wealthier neighborhoods when all is said and done. 7 figure condos are selling there.

It has NIMBY’s, but they don’t go balls out to block reasonably sized developments like they do in Lincoln Park.

And hell, I’d be willing to wager that 65 E Goethe would be easier to build in the Gold Coast than in LP. Try building ANYTHING taller than 4 stories (actually, LPers just shot down a 4 story proposal on Lincoln Ave that replaces a gas station—the same height as neighboring buildings) in LP. I bet you won’t get anywhere.

That level says something about the mindset of the people. And that’s a mindset I wouldn’t want to be around. Hence I could never see myself living there.

Seven figure condos don’t make it a “wealthy enclave”. A million bucks isn’t what it used to be. And you’re ignoring the meaning of the term “enclave”.

Anyway, all I’m saying is that not wanting developments which exceed the current density of the neighborhood is not unreasonable. Blocking a 4-story building is ridiculous, that’s true (assuming it was opposed because of size - there are plenty of reasons for residents to oppose a particular proposal). My point is that arguments for “densifying” LP, which I take to mean building up significantly, are misguided fanboy-ism from SSP and ignore the fact that people in LP like living in a fairly quiet neighborhood.

Also most of the ‘90s and ‘00s development on streets like Lincoln Ave were absolute garbage, so there’s no wonder more of that is opposed.

Perhaps some architectural standards would engender a more favorable response. Who wants to see more of this?
https://goo.gl/maps/X27RremVfbJ2

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Here it is, a perfectly appropriate TOD of a mere 4 stories on a major thoroughfare got blocked by the community due to “traffic and safety concerns” as well as concerns about “sight lines”, whatever in God’s fuck that means:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/4/11...nt-gas-station

Sure. And then you have this going up:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/10/1...do-development

If I was the alderman I would have pushed for better design. This looks like a doctors’ office building in a suburban shopping center.

[tjp]

Originally Posted by 10023

Then it was never vibrant in any great way.

I disagree. The Halsted / Armitage used to be lined with a lot of high-end retail and had a lot of foot traffic. Armitage is still doing well, but Halsted is outright depressing at this point. Most of the storefronts are empty and starting to fall into disrepair.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by 10023

Seven figure condos don’t make it a “wealthy enclave”. A million bucks isn’t what it used to be. And you’re ignoring the meaning of the term “enclave”.

Anyway, all I’m saying is that not wanting developments which exceed the current density of the neighborhood is not unreasonable. Blocking a 4-story building is ridiculous, that’s true (assuming it was opposed because of size - there are plenty of reasons for residents to oppose a particular proposal). My point is that arguments for “densifying” LP, which I take to mean building up significantly, are misguided fanboy-ism from SSP and ignore the fact that people in LP like living in a fairly quiet neighborhood.
.

But my point is that you don’t actually have to build taller than 4-5 stories to density LP further. There are still lots of underutilized sites in LP that need buildings.

The proposal above that was rejected is a great example. It’s near transit and it would’ve replaced a former gas station. Now it will remain a vacant lot for God knows how long, all so that a bunch of buttholes can have their “quiet neighborhood”.

Well isn’t a “quiet neighborhood” what side streets are for? Main thoroughfares, particularly when you are near an L stop, are supposed to be for larger structures. If you live next to the L in a major city you can’t expect peace and quiet.

This isn’t SSP fanboyism, it’s common sense urban planning.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by tjp

I disagree. The Halsted / Armitage used to be lined with a lot of high-end retail and had a lot of foot traffic. Armitage is still doing well, but Halsted is outright depressing at this point. Most of the storefronts are empty and starting to fall into disrepair.

Plus the northeast corner of Armitage and Halsted is a giant parking lot. I’m sure nobody will try to build anything there anyhow because the NIMBYism will be so damn intense that it won’t be worth the effort

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by 10023

Then it was never vibrant in any great way. The bars were all fratty dives. LP has never had any decent nightlife, with the sole exception of Kingston Mines (to my knowledge, still there).

A bunch of hospital foot traffic frequenting Subway and McDonald’s or that terrible Mexican restaurant isn’t missed by anyone in the neighborhood. And a lot of Lincoln Avenue just needs to be redeveloped.

A wealthy enclave isn’t for you, but it isn’t a failed neighborhood.

It's really easy arguing with people who don't know what they are talking about. Lincoln Ave wasn't lined with subways and McDonald's. There were maybe half a dozen chain stores, most of which are still around, and dozens of small businesses catering (sometimes literally) to hospital traffic. There was a great Mediterranean place that went under because a huge portion of their business was catering and lunch traffic from the hospital, that's what has been lost, not frat bars. Also again your assessment of what businesses populate LP is a joke. Do you consider the Biograph, Lincoln Hall (not that you even know what that is since you probably haven't been here since it opened, it's the one bright spot along this stretch), Cafe Babareeba, etc as "frat bars"?

Lincoln Park was never all frat bars though maybe that's your experience as a big ten frat bro, LP had a huge diversity of businesses catering to everyone from frat bros to millionaires to DePaul college kids to doctors and nurses to artsy types. The diversity of those businesses has skewed almost exclusively to millionaires of which there are far fewer meaning there are far fewer businesses.

[10023]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

It's really easy arguing with people who don't know what they are talking about. Lincoln Ave wasn't lined with subways and McDonald's. There were maybe half a dozen chain stores, most of which are still around, and dozens of small businesses catering (sometimes literally) to hospital traffic. There was a great Mediterranean place that went under because a huge portion of their business was catering and lunch traffic from the hospital, that's what has been lost, not frat bars. Also again your assessment of what businesses populate LP is a joke. Do you consider the Biograph, Lincoln Hall (not that you even know what that is since you probably haven't been here since it opened, it's the one bright spot along this stretch), Cafe Babareeba, etc as "frat bars"?

Lincoln Park was never all frat bars though maybe that's your experience as a big ten frat bro, LP had a huge diversity of businesses catering to everyone from frat bros to millionaires to DePaul college kids to doctors and nurses to artsy types. The diversity of those businesses has skewed almost exclusively to millionaires of which there are far fewer meaning there are far fewer businesses.

So I actually went to Cafe Babareeba a few years ago, because I had fond memories of it as a teenager. It was very disappointing, and like cannedairspray I’m wondering if the place has changed or if my tastes have just evolved. But Trotter’s and Alinea aside, LP has never been a renowned restaurant neighborhood.

I used to see movies at the Biograph. Lived basically around the corner. And yes Lincoln Hall is new, but based on the website and food menu, it’s not any more interesting than I would have imagined.

LP is certainly not all millionaires. It’s still a bunch of post-Big Ten accountants and lawyers and the like in their 20s and 30s. But if it were ever a diverse, bohemian neighborhood with great restaurants and nightlife, then that period must have occurred prior to the late 1990s.

[jtown,man]

I hear this in about 1 in 10 post on SSP...

What the hell is "great night life?"

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I hear this in about 1 in 10 post on SSP...

What the hell is "great night life?"

You know it when you live it. Bars, theaters, lounges, clubs, restaurants, plazas, shops, and whatever else in succession/close proximity that is vibrant well into the evening.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

You know it when you live it. Bars, theaters, lounges, clubs, restaurants, plazas, shops, and whatever else in succession/close proximity that is vibrant well into the evening.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking mega clubs and djs lol I was like wtf do people care about that crap so much!?

[10023]

I would define it as anything I do after work. Could be a pub, could be a restaurant, could be an art gallery, could be a music venue. Could be something different like rooftop cinema or booze heavy mini golf for grown-ups. In London it’s often something at a members’ club.

Generally speaking, the vast majority of this stuff is in cities and not suburbs. When it’s in a suburb that’s generally because it’s a SINO (suburb in name only) and actually fairly urban.