Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Oliver Klozov

What about Bow Trail? Banff Trail? Edmonton Trail?

Edmonton Trail is the southern end of what was the Calgary & Edmonton Trail, the original Hwy 2. Parts of the original trail are stilled signed C&E Trail from Ponoka to Innisfail.

Fair enough. I made that post in haste. I'd extend the use of "trail" to where the existing street evolved from something that was once an actual major historic trail.

[outoftheice]

Well we're another step closer to seeing the SW portion of the ring road... any bets on when we'll see the first shovels go into the ground? My guess is 5 years....

Calgary's SW ring road clears major hurdle

Tsuu T'ina council OK's draft deal

By Kim Guttormson, Calgary HeraldMarch 24, 2009 8:02

The long-awaited south-west ring road has cleared a significant hurdle with the chief and council of the Tsuu T'ina Nation approving a deal with the province to build the freeway across band land.

Band members, who have been informed of the council's decision, will have their chance to vote on the agreement June 30.

Alberta Transportation spokesman Jerry Bellikka said the province has also been notified that the council has approved a draft of the final agreement.

While there are still other hurdles -- including ratification by the band members and approval from the federal government--Bellikka called the council's vote"a very significant step."

"There are still some more steps to go through,"he added, "but this is a very, very positive step," Bellikka said.

Tsuu T'ina spokesman Morten Paulsen said Chief Sandford Big Plume will hold a news conference this afternoon, but would provide no other details.

The mythic southwest ring road has been in the works, off and on, for decades.

Negotiations have ramped up over the past few years, raising hopes that a deal would be reached--especially with the province heralding imminent deals a number of times during that period.

The preferred path of the 20-kilometre road is to run it through the Tsuu T'ina reserve --but that requires about two square kilometres of land be transferred to the province.

Price has been a sticking point, as have some other details.

Dave Fryett, transportation director for the South of Fish Creek community association, said the band council's approval makes him hopeful the ring road is closer.

But he's cautious with his optimism, citing previous announcements that have fizzled.

"I did go to a news conference in 2004 and they said there was a deal, with deadlines and mileposts," he said.

What there is no doubt about, Fryett said, is the need for a southwest connector.

"We need it, we need a southwest ring road. Everything now is reliant on the Glenmore causeway,"he added of commuters trying to travel north-south along 14th Street S. W. or Macleod Trail.

With a draft deal finally going to a vote, if the band members accept it, the province can move ahead with the established route.

But Fryett sees the vote itself as a step forward. Even if the members reject it, he points out, the city and province can then move forward with an alternative route.

"Everybody needs to make a decision," Fryett said.

Ald. Brian Pincott, whose ward abuts the Tsuu T'ina reserve, said he's long been a proponent of not waiting for the band to make a decision about the ring road.

"I've been a proponent of let's move forward and find a solution for Calgary," he said, pointing to the need for an interchange at 37th Street and Glenmore Trail as an example. "I'm still a proponent of that."

If Tsuu T'ina residents approve the deal in June, the federal government still needs to pass an order-in-council to transfer the property to the province. That's been estimated to take anywhere from six months to a year.

Construction on the southwest leg of the ring road--which could eventually expand to 16 lanes but is likely to start with four, with at least five interchanges, including 37th and Glenmore -- is expected to take be-tween three and four years once it begins.

Fryett argues this is the perfect time to start such a major project, with construction companies looking for jobs for the first time in years.

Earlier this month, the province unveiled plans for the southeast leg of the ring road, with 25 kilometres of free-flowing, six-lane roadway built from 17th Avenue S.E. to the Macleod Trail interchange at Marquis of Lorne Trail.

[mersar]

Yeah, lets hope this is a real start and not another false start. Depending on what the agreement reads I actually wouldn't be too surprised to see this one start possibly at the same time as the SE or shortly afterwards (providing the band members approve it, which I find to be quite likely based off their approval of the last vote on the SWRR)

[WeavedWeb]

Originally Posted by Wooster

All I'm saying is that just because you have land doesn't mean you have to use it wastefully. Surely there's a way to make these interchanges more compact and still function effectively. Look at the ramp going East-bound Transcanada turning onto Stoney Trail North in the NW - I swear you drive an extra KM just making the turn around that enormous ramp. It's ridiculous!

Setting aside any debate about freeways v. transit, the fact of the matter is that if you are going to build a freeway to handle the long-term capacity that the Ring Road is projected to be carrying, these large interchange designs are necessary for both safety and efficiency. Deerfoot Trail was built with a very short-sighted design so that the freeway now handles more than three times the traffic it was designed for. The result is more accidents, more injuries, more delays (which results in more idling, etc) and more cost to the government in maintenance, healthcare, emergency responders, etc. etc. The large interchanges that are being built for Stoney Trail will allow a large amount of traffic to flow safely at a high rate of speed. In turn, this should reduce accidents and travel time for commuters using the freeway.

Anyways, the point is, Deerfoot Trail has similar intersections (i.e., Glenmore/Deerfoot, Deerfoot/16th, Deerfoot/Memorial, Deerfoot/Blackfoot) with high traffic loads comparable to what some of these interchanges are being designed for (except the Deerfoot interchanges are much smaller and more compact) and the results are more accidents, more delays, and unsafe driving.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Well we're another step closer to seeing the SW portion of the ring road... any bets on when we'll see the first shovels go into the ground? My guess is 5 years....

I'd say 5 years at the earliest. Construction hasn't even started yet on the SE portion, and next up will likely be the NE section of AHD in Edmonton which will complete their ring road. After that the SW Stoney portion will be the final project to complete the 2 ring roads. 5 years would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

[craner]

I would be happy if the province can reach their goal of having it done by the end of 2015 which I think is attainable.
We'll see how the Band votes in June and then how long the Feds take to approve if it is radified.
There have been lots of false starts on these negotiations over the last 50 years but I don't think this SW portion has ever proceded this far down the "trail" so I commend them for that. I think both sides stand to benefit from this agreement

[Beltliner]

CHQR has an early report from the Tsuu T'ina presser this afternoon:

Originally Posted by CHQR

Tsuu T'ina talks about Ring Road deal
CHQR Newsroom
3/24/2009

The Tsuu T'ina First Nation has announced they have struck a land deal with the province and the city for the southwest leg of Calgary's ring road.

Chief Sanford Big Plume says the deal still has a major hurdle to clear.

It will be put to a referendum vote on June 30th, but he says he is confident it will pass.

He says he can not get into specifics, but the deal does involve new land for the Tsuu T'ina.

He says if the deal is defeated in the referendum vote, it will die.

[KrisYYC]

The problem with Canadian drivers is our joke of a drivers education program across all provinces. They get you to put around a quiet residential neighbourhood and teach you to panic and slam on the brakes everytime anything gets within 50 feet of the vehicle.

Another problem is people equate paranoid driving with good driving. The most infuriating are people who brake while trying to merge as if it's a yield. Or the douchebags who think "speed kills!!" and sit in the left lane doing exactly 100km/h picturing themselve a civic hero for single handedly enforcing the speed limit much to the chagrin of those "dangerous" drivers who want to do 120km/h.

Having driven in the US, Taiwan and much of Europe I'd say Canadians on average are pretty pathetic drivers.

[mersar]

They had a piece on the news last night about the SE Ring road, and the business group who is fighting against it for fear of it causing an additional $20M/year in costs as a couple interchanges were removed from the plan down around the Shepard industrial area.

[devonb]

Originally Posted by KrisYYC

The problem with Canadian drivers is our joke of a drivers education program across all provinces. They get you to put around a quiet residential neighbourhood and teach you to panic and slam on the brakes everytime anything gets within 50 feet of the vehicle.

Another problem is people equate paranoid driving with good driving. The most infuriating are people who brake while trying to merge as if it's a yield. Or the douchebags who think "speed kills!!" and sit in the left lane doing exactly 100km/h picturing themselve a civic hero for single handedly enforcing the speed limit much to the chagrin of those "dangerous" drivers who want to do 120km/h.

Having driven in the US, Taiwan and much of Europe I'd say Canadians on average are pretty pathetic drivers.

Fully agree. Having recently moved from Vancouver where there is a higher percentage of paranoid drivers, I find Calgarians falter with being over confident in their driving abilities. I've never been in a city where so many driving laws are optional. I had a friend who was surprised to learn that signalling was the law - she thought it was a courtesy. Kind of explains why so few signal when changing lanes, or even taking turns. Being a motorcyclist, I've had a lot of close calls here from people not bothering to shoulder check or give the 'courtesy' of signalling. Overall though, I prefer the drivers here to Vancouver by a large margin.

[clooless]

More details, in case anyone was curious.

Southeast business owners upset with ring road
CHQR Newsroom
3/25/2009

Business owners along 84th Street are concerned a change in plans to the southeast ring road will cost them tens of millions of dollars every year. Many of the roughly 100 businesses in the Shepard Industrial Park moved there because they were told the ring road would include interchanges at 61st and 106th Avenue. Those interchanges have since been removed from the plans. Richard Warnock is the president of a trucking company in the industrial park. He says his employees are owner/operators, and traveling an extra five kilometers every time they load and unload will have a huge impact on their bottom lines. Group Spokesman Trevor Fridfinnson says the interchanges would cost about 25-million dollars each, but not putting them in will cost businesses between 16 and 20 million every year.

Source: CHQR

Personally I think the complaint is absurd. The Glenmore Trail interchange will be a stone's throw from the industrial park on 61st.

[MalcolmTucker]

If they truely believe it will cost them 20 million each year, perhaps they should just issue a one time levy on these businesses (if these interchanges would be safely spaced) to pay for the interchange. By their math they should be happy to!

[lubicon]

The time they save by using the new ring road, even if they have to drive a few 'extra' km's will probably more than offset the time and fuel they are currently burning using the goat trail of a road system that is currently in place. I'll bet at the end of the day they will still be money ahead when the new road opens.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

If they truely believe it will cost them 20 million each year, perhaps they should just issue a one time levy on these businesses (if these interchanges would be safely spaced) to pay for the interchange. By their math they should be happy to!

Agreed. I'd fault the businesses if they claim the main reason they moved there was a line on a paper that was subject to change, so let them pay if they really think it would cost them so much otherwise

Looking at the maps I can see why the interchanges were dropped (though the ROW for them is still there, so they could potentially be built in the future), theres absolutely nothing out there (theres pretty much just open field between 84th and 52nd at 61st, and at 106th theres really no connection to anywhere west as 106th (which doesn't even exist that far east) would run into the CN yard and theres nothing east either past 84th all the way out to range road 283. So all those two interchanges would do is let the handful of businesses have access to the ring road, and little else.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by mersar

Agreed. I'd fault the businesses if they claim the main reason they moved there was a line on a paper that was subject to change, so let them pay if they really think it would cost them so much otherwise

Looking at the maps I can see why the interchanges were dropped (though the ROW for them is still there, so they could potentially be built in the future), theres absolutely nothing out there (theres pretty much just open field between 84th and 52nd at 61st, and at 106th theres really no connection to anywhere west as 106th (which doesn't even exist that far east) would run into the CN yard and theres nothing east either past 84th all the way out to range road 283. So all those two interchanges would do is let the handful of businesses have access to the ring road, and little else.

Also, for safety reasons, they don't want an interchange every mile.

[srperrycgy]

I was in Houston for the past two weeks and was impressed by parts of the freeways, especially this sucker:



NB I-45 at the Sam Houston Tollway with reversible HOV lane in the centre. I have an appreciation for tolls now. The lack of transit was sad, but not surprising.

[mersar]

Graham Construction has moved a trailer up to the Crowchild and Stoney interchange, along with a portapotty. I'm assuming they must have won the contract for building the remaining bridges for that interchange.

[craner]

Originally Posted by mersar

Graham Construction has moved a trailer up to the Crowchild and Stoney interchange, along with a portapotty. I'm assuming they must have won the contract for building the remaining bridges for that interchange.

Seems to me Graham has got most of the work along Crowchild.
Spring is on the way - lets start building.

[mersar]

Graham hasn't had much recently, though they are becoming a pretty major player on Stoney overall as they are also a major part of the NE P3 as well as doing the Scenic Acres/Tuscany interchange.

Enmax has also been on the bridge a few times in the past few weeks with a crew when I've gone past

[lubicon]

I didn't realize the trailers had been removed from Crowchild/Stoney in the first place. Shows how observant I am, and how often I use that intersection I guess.

There has been a pretty sizeable gang of workers on the Tuscany/Scenic Acres interchange lately as well. Looks like that project is moving along nicely.