High Speed Rail in Canada

[niwell]

I think it would make sense to KWC, and potentially London. The case to Windsor not so much.

[ssiguy]

Windsor does make sense especially if there is a connection to Detroit. What doesn't make sense is stops in Guelph and Chatham.

I think this announcement will do nothing but get the back of Londoners up. The fact that there was an announcement just before they went to the polls 4 years ago and all that has been done since that time is a $15 miillion enviornmental assessment which just happens to be before another up coming election.

This will be met with scorn from Londoners and seen as nothing more than another delay tactic that of a project that may never come to fruition. Fool me once shame on you, shame me twice shame on me.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Windsor does make sense especially if there is a connection to Detroit. What doesn't make sense is stops in Guelph and Chatham.

I think this announcement will do nothing but get the back of Londoners once. The fact that there was an announcement just before they went to the polls 4 years ago and all that has been done since that time is a $15 miillion enviornmental assessment which just happens to be before another up coming election.

This will be met with scorn from Londoners and seen as nothing more than another delay tactic that of a project that may never come to fruition. Fool me once shame on you, shame me twice shame on me.

I really think that the number of people paying attention to this is in the hundreds. If HSR was a real issue with real exposure, PC candidates along the proposed line could easily dredge up the 2013 proposal and show that this is just the Wynne government making empty promises to win votes.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

It is getting some attention on Facebook and Reddit. There are two very different themes depending on the location.

In Toronto, the theme is that nobody travels from Toronto to Windsor so it's a waste of money. Seems to have very little support in Toronto. (The sheer lack of knowledge of Southwestern Ontario's population and its economic dependence on Toronto is evident)

In London, it's more mixed; some in favour, some concern about the cost.

What are the viewpoints in eastern and (especially) northern Ontario? They would have to pay big for that but get zero benefit.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

What are the viewpoints in eastern and (especially) northern Ontario? They would have to pay big for that but get zero benefit.

Northern Ontario would rightfully be pissed off, since this is the same government that dumped the Northlander train.

As for Eastern Ontario, I thought VIA Rail was planning something between Toronto and Ottawa.

One thing everyone has to bear in mind regarding the cost is there has been interest from the private sector. This sounds like a P3 project.

[caltrane74]

Northern Ontario is lightly populated and vast, infrastructure up there cost a fortune. They kick in very little, if anything, to the provincial pot. Sorry vid.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Northern Ontario would rightfully be pissed off, since this is the same government that dumped the Northlander train.

As for Eastern Ontario, I thought VIA Rail was planning something between Toronto and Ottawa.

One thing everyone has to bear in mind regarding the cost is there has been interest from the private sector. This sounds like a P3 project.

I'm sure many in the east will wish it had gone to Ottawa instead. (Beyond Ottawa requires a federal initiative)

I would support it if tax dollars from northern Ontario (at least) did not go into such - perhaps lower the gas tax by a certain amount up there to compensate.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by niwell

I think it would make sense to KWC, and potentially London. The case to Windsor not so much.

Really? There's over 400,000 people in Windsor and Essex County, and 4.3M in Detroit. Do you really think that nobody in Detroit visits Toronto?

[wave46]

Put me in the skeptical column. HSR works in Europe because of the density of highly populated cities in close proximity to one another.

To use France as an example, the metro areas of France connected to SNCF's HSR are much larger than their Canadian counterparts in Ontario.

Given the same funding, improvements in VIA rail service/infrastructure would yield the best per-dollar value for longer distance routes (ex. Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto and London-Toronto) and GO transit rail routes. Give any leftovers to the cities to improve local transit - more person-hours overall are lost commuting within a given city than between cities spaced far apart.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I'm sure many in the east will wish it had gone to Ottawa instead. (Beyond Ottawa requires a federal initiative)

I would support it if tax dollars from northern Ontario (at least) did not go into such - perhaps lower the gas tax by a certain amount up there to compensate.

Im curious about your relationship with Northern Ontario, why so much profound focus on N. Ontario vs the rest of it, were uou born there? If so, whereabouts?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by wave46

Put me in the skeptical column. HSR works in Europe because of the density of highly populated cities in close proximity to one another.

To use France as an example, the metro areas of France connected to SNCF's HSR are much larger than their Canadian counterparts in Ontario.

Given the same funding, improvements in VIA rail service/infrastructure would yield the best per-dollar value for longer distance routes (ex. Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto and London-Toronto) and GO transit rail routes. Give any leftovers to the cities to improve local transit - more person-hours overall are lost commuting within a given city than between cities spaced far apart.

Southern Ontario and Quebec are the only places in Canada that are approaching Euro levels of density and already have some sort of passenger rail network in place, it's a great place to start - you don't get to the point of many people using the railways by not building good rail. And the more you build, it get's exponentially better. Hypothetically, if an HSR network existed today connecting Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, KWC, Hamilton, London, Windsor etc do you think that would be well used? I do.

As for building slower routes, it sounds like the prudent thing to do, but places have often found that even though building faster is more expensive, it usually has a much better business case, because it becomes much more competitive than the car and plane.

Ontario, and elsewhere in Canada just need to get a move on with building out rail, as the next line will always be more justifiable than the first because of the network effects.

[ssiguy]

There is a BIG difference between the Northlander and a HSR...........the Northlander was cancelled because no one was using it. Many northern Ontarians may have been pissed off at it's demise but I bet 90% of the people complaining were people who had never used it.

Also the road network is free flowing unlike southern Ontario where the traffic is horrendous and limited ability to widen the roads or build new ones.

[lrt's friend]

I believe VIA is preparing a proper feasibility study on rebuilding the old CPR line between Perth and Havelock so that a new fast rail link under VIA ownership can run trains between Ottawa and Toronto, VIAs most popular route. Much of the track between Montreal and Smiths Falls via Ottawa is already owned by VIA.

Once properly studied, this may receive federal funding.

So any extension from Toronto to Windsor would be an extension of an Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto route.

As I mentioned elsewhere, proper design (and with the recent pre-clearance agreement with the USA on rail passengers), rail extensions to Detroit and Chicago may eventually become feasible.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by niwell

I think it would make sense to KWC, and potentially London. The case to Windsor not so much.

Leaving out Ontario west of London makes little sense unless the intent is to ensure it gets left behind economically. I don't see how under any scenario how that would be preferable.

Not only is this just the first section of the Quebec - Windsor HSR line but one eventually would want to connect up to the US HSR network. Windsor is a logical place for that to happen. Doing so in Sarnia makes far less sense.

[Razor]

I said it before on here..Having this vast province, let alone vast country can be a curse when it comes to infrastructure..HSR is just one example. I'm for it, but the cost will be tremendous.Way more then most European countries without the Alps to contend with...I'm with all those who stated before that a test line between London and Toronto should be first..Maybe even that piece between Kitchener and Toronto..

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by north 42

Really? There's over 400,000 people in Windsor and Essex County, and 4.3M in Detroit. Do you really think that nobody in Detroit visits Toronto?

Many people in Toronto don't have a grasp of how connected Windsor and Detroit are, or how many people in metro Detroit would take advantage of this to visit Toronto. In the Toronto media they are only hearing "Windsor" which means people only think about that small city at the end of the province instead of the 4.7 million people living in the area.

There is talk of HSR between Chicago and Detroit and in the report released this week by Ontario it proposes building a new train station in Windsor to connect seamlessly to that (even though the current train station in Windsor is only 5 years old).

[OutOfTowner]

Give your collective heads a shake. This isn't going to happen, it's an election tidbit from a soon to be dead government.

Holy fuck -2025? The hilarity!!

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Leaving out Ontario west of London makes little sense unless the intent is to ensure it gets left behind economically. I don't see how under any scenario how that would be preferable.

Not only is this just the first section of the Quebec - Windsor HSR line but one eventually would want to connect up to the US HSR network. Windsor is a logical place for that to happen. Doing so in Sarnia makes far less sense.

Yeah right, and this is going to ever happen at all lol

Let's all argue about the alignment of this figment of our imagination that will never happen in our lifetime!

So much fun..

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Give your collective heads a shake. This isn't going to happen, it's an election tidbit from a soon to be dead government.

Holy fuck -2025? The hilarity!!

Agreed.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Yeah right, and this is going to ever happen at all lol

Let's all argue about the alignment of this figment of our imagination that will never happen in our lifetime!

So much fun..

Now this is a bit over the top, no? A HSR corridor from Chicago to Toronto via Detroit, to far beyond is not only likely within our lifetimes but makes so much sense. The Toronto to London portion is quite possible, just not with the morally bankrupt Wynne Liberal gov't.