Dining out, entertainment and the arts scene in places w/ population under 200,000

[SpongeG]

well its alberta, oil country alberta, small town folk

i work in a restaurant in a place further north, once we had proscuito wrapped chicken on special, no one bought it, next day we called it bacon wrapped chicken and the shit sold out. its frustrating. we have to explain what any city person would know, such as a rose sauce, no one has a clue what it is here, i am shocked at the level of how uneducated people are for food and such, they don't even know what provolone is, lol i could go on

in the small town where i live there is one tim hortons always packed, there is one indie coffee shop, always pretty dead, though lately when i go in there seem to be more people, i don't drink coffee so i have no clue what they use but the chai is pretty good and the food is good

anyway i guess the point i was making is gp isn't a town with any kind of food scene other than chains or redneck bar and grills

[1overcosc]

Kingston's downtown is full of independent cafes. I think most CMAs in Canada have indie cafes in their cores.

[hipster duck]

Not to be too much of a BC homer, but there is a noticeable difference in the quality of food options between a small town in BC versus a small town in Alberta. Just crossing the Crowsnest pass from Fernie to Pincher Creek will convince you of that.

While a BC small town won't have Michelin-starred restaurants, you can at least roll up to a town somewhere in the interior and have your choice of a decent bakery, a decent coffee shop and a bar that serves some local microbrew.

Now, of course, BC towns are often a bit more touristy, but even the towns that are in the middle of tourist country in Alberta usually have pretty mediocre fare. Fort MacLeod - which has nicer downtown architecture than just about any BC town of similar size except maybe Nelson - had a beautiful Main street graced with nothing more than a mediocre "Chinese-Canadian" restaurant. Pincher Creek is the gateway to Waterton NP. Why does it not have a single decent sit-down restaurant? We found the food options in Drumheller to be pretty lousy for a town that is home to the Royal Tyrrell museum. I think we decided to eat at the Denny's in Brooks (gateway to Dinosaur PP), after our Yelp search turned up empty.

[someone123]

I know somebody who tried to run a reasonably high-end restaurant in a small town in Alberta and it sounded like a pretty frustrating experience. People would only buy steak and burgers. The town was overflowing with cash at the time; the problem was that customers were reluctant to try new things. They basically just wanted a Boston Pizza level dining experience.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Not to be too much of a BC homer, but there is a noticeable difference in the quality of food options between a small town in BC versus a small town in Alberta.

I've found a pretty big variety even within BC. Nanaimo for example seems to have more food options than Chilliwack and Abbotsford. Those two towns are both extremely suburban. Kelowna seems pretty good for its size but is also very suburban, which seems to go hand in hand with more generic restaurants. Victoria's well above average but is over the 200,000 cutoff.

A lot of small towns in the Maritimes have far more in the way of dining and entertainment options than the Canadian norm. Charlottetown is the biggest standout (maybe Fredericton is like this too; I'm not sure). Lunenburg and Wolfville have a lot more options than you'd normally expect in towns of that size too but they are fairly touristy. Lunenburg is basically a giant tourist trap and the Wolfville area is a kind of mini Niagara with lots of local wineries, etc. Charlottetown is a hybrid provincial capital and tourist trap.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by someone123

I've found a pretty big variety even within BC. Nanaimo for example seems to have more food options than Chilliwack and Abbotsford. Those two towns are both extremely suburban. Kelowna seems pretty good for its size but is also very suburban, which seems to go hand in hand with more generic restaurants. Victoria's well above average but is over the 200,000 cutoff.

There will always be places where the food is not terrific. Every part of Canada - including Quebec - had to go through a bit of a food revolution in the past 40 years from a time when stuff like this was considered to be gourmet. There are probably more beer brands within a 4 mile radius of my home than there were in all of Canada in 1970.

That old culinary Canada still exists in places that got "left behind" and revolved around blue collar resource economies. While I can see the Maritimes having good food in certain places, I can't imagine rolling up to a restaurant in New Waterford and having the dinner of my life. Although you never know.

In BC, it's the same thing: I've had good food in Tofino, Courtenay, Parksville and Nanaimo, but Port Alberni - a sad, stagnating pulp and paper town - was such a washout that we ended up eating KFC.

We aren't like Italy, France or Spain where even simple, provincial dishes have had a certain refinement to them for centuries. In these countries, simple age-old pleasures that you could do in any podunk village - like having an espresso, or drinking Campari and soda - have now become associated with contemporary urban luxury and elitism in Anglo cities.

[someone123]

Yeah, there are definitely different worlds. Alberta is interesting in that you find economically vibrant places that feel culturally behind the times. In the Maritimes, like in most of Canada, the level of sophistication in dining options matches the level of economic well-being fairly closely, so it's easy to conflate the two.

You are correct in guessing that New Waterford isn't great (although, in fairness, I haven't been there for a long time). Cape Breton has a lot of areas that feel kind of like Port Alberni and environs. Nanaimo could have easily remained Sydney's twin in an alternate universe with less tourism and real estate investment. There probably was some period of time when they were about the same, maybe in the 70's and 80's.

In the same way that Ontarians are guilty of forgetting about Northern Ontario, people living in the central part of the Maritimes tend to forget the peripheral areas. Often "the Maritimes" means more or less a one-hour radius around the highway between Halifax and Moncton. I am definitely guilty of thinking that way most of the time.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Kingston's downtown is full of independent cafes. I think most CMAs in Canada have indie cafes in their cores.

when i lived in kingston we went to one called the chinese laundry, we went daily, around that time a new place opened up called the sleepless goat. this was around 1993-94

good times

[urbandreamer]

Downtown Milton is actually pretty nice. Ignore the hideous post-1970s suburbs and you've got a nice pub scene happening downtown. Not that I've ever been there at night.:p

Main Street Schomberg is pretty quaint--too touristy of course but still has this almost Kensington Market vibe minus the pedestrian hordes. They have a great indie coffee shop.

I know everyone raves about French patisseries and Italian bakeries in the GTA but if you want proper English baked goods where do you go? I go to Erin Ontario! Caledon and Guelph area small villages often feel relatively sophisticated compared to towns in Niagara Region or Perth County etc. There's tourist traps like Elora and Fergus that have dozens of indie cafes and restaurants. I tend to visit these towns during blizzards or early Sunday morning hours when I can enjoy the architecture without being rudely inserted in some GTA day tripper's selfie album.

I haven't explored the St Thomas-Chatham-Sarnia-Windsor-Leamington area yet so hope to make some interesting discoveries next year. (One of my weekend hobbies is driving around rural Ontario--Toronto is beginning to bore me.) Anyone familiar with the cafe scene in those regions?

[TownGuy]

I'll give a nod to Port Hope.

Look at this little corner of their downtown for instance. Wonderful cafe and an atmospheric theatre. The rest of the downtown is basically a continuation of this.

IMG_1381 by A. Madsen, on Flickr

There is also little to no big box stores in Port Hope which is unheard of for a place nearing 20,000 people.

[hipster duck]

Port Hope is a real gem. I think it's the fact that it has a curvy main street on a hill that is lined with 4, not 2 or 3, storey commercial blocks. It looks a lot more like upstate NY or even parts of New England or the Eastern Townships of Quebec than a place like St. Thomas or Chatham which looks more like Michigan.

Now that I think of it, Ontario transitions from "Midwestern" to "Northeastern" somewhere west of Port Hope (no Appalachia in Canada). Cities like Port Hope, Cobourg, Kingston and Brockville are a little more mid-19C and water-focused, and less late 19C and rail focused.

[TownGuy]

Agreed about the 4 storeys. Look at this towering beast.

https://goo.gl/maps/U1N8yNuf7TQ2

[urbandreamer]

Ha yeah I've been to the (urban)dreamers cafe. The coffee was pretty meh but there's other indie spots nearby. The problem with PH is it feels a bit too fake touristy whereas nearby Cobourg has a real old Ontario feel which is refreshing leaving the GTA. Then there's Prince Edward County and its charms, Picton somewhat excluded.

[SignalHillHiker]

Port Hope reminds me of here in terms of the scale of the commercial area. That downtown is beautiful.

[1overcosc]

The entire corridor from Port Hope through Brockville is chock full of beautiful downtowns. Driving the old Highway 2 through them all is slow but is a great experience.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

well its alberta, oil country alberta, small town folk

i work in a restaurant in a place further north, once we had proscuito wrapped chicken on special, no one bought it, next day we called it bacon wrapped chicken and the shit sold out. its frustrating. we have to explain what any city person would know, such as a rose sauce, no one has a clue what it is here, i am shocked at the level of how uneducated people are for food and such, they don't even know what provolone is, lol i could go on

in the small town where i live there is one tim hortons always packed, there is one indie coffee shop, always pretty dead, though lately when i go in there seem to be more people, i don't drink coffee so i have no clue what they use but the chai is pretty good and the food is good

anyway i guess the point i was making is gp isn't a town with any kind of food scene other than chains or redneck bar and grills

Sounds a lot like Timmins. Although I'd say most younger people here are better when it comes to knowing what rosé sauce and provolone cheese are.

The coffee thing is the same here as well. We have 8 Tim's locations for a population of 43,000 and they are all crazy busy. We have two independent cafe, one just recently opened and they are generally pretty quiet. But the indies are profitable.

Our biggest barrier here to getting good and interesting places is labour. Most places are having trouble finding people to work and most cannot find people who can give good customer service and make products properly.

[Acajack]

I am surprised that some of our friends from Alberta haven't reacted strongly given how their province is being singled out here.

I mean, these places exist all over the country - maybe Alberta stands out more because of its economic profile and the fact it has/had quite a few places with lots of low skilled people making high wages in boomtowns.

One of my aunts works in a grocery store in a struggling Acadian town in New Brunswick, and the comments about people not being interested in finer stuff or not knowing it even exists could come from her as well.

[Beedok]

Medicine Hat didn't seem too bad for food options.

[1overcosc]

On this topic, I had a pleasant surprise walking in downtown Kingston today.

One of the Starbucks locations downtown has closed and is now being converted to an independent cafe. We're now down to just 2 Starbucks and 2 Tim Hortons in the downtown core, compared to over a dozen indie cafes.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am surprised that some of our friends from Alberta haven't reacted strongly given how their province is being singled out here.

I mean, these places exist all over the country - maybe Alberta stands out more because of its economic profile and the fact it has/had quite a few places with lots of low skilled people making high wages in boomtowns.

One of my aunts works in a grocery store in a struggling Acadian town in New Brunswick, and the comments about people not being interested in finer stuff or not knowing it even exists could come from her as well.

Nova Scotia has some dire food towns (the province's second-biggest towns, Sydney and Truro, are both weak, with a few exceptions). And New Brunswick fares worse: it feels like you can't get anything but fried clams in some towns.

But then there are towns like Lunenburg and Wolfville and Tatamagouche, among others, and there are stand-out restaurants scattered here and there in even more rural areas, especially up and down the South Shore. It has a bit of a Prince Edward County (Ontario) feel in places.

Alberta really doesn't have that. Even the third-biggest city, Red Deer, is pretty thin gruel as far as dining options go. Not to say there's nowhere good to eat, but relative to the size of the place, they're few and far between.

Banff would be an exception.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Nova Scotia has some dire food towns (the city's second-biggest towns, Sydney and Truro, are both weak, with a few exceptions). And New Brunswick fares worse: it feels like you can't get anything but fried clams in some towns.

.

Yeah, thank goodness I have a residual childhood thing for coques panées (breaded clams) at Dixie Lee, otherwise I'd go hungry in many places I sometimes go to for family reasons!