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  #101  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2015, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
I keep seeing so many examples of features of the OC Transpo system, from the design of routes to the placement of stops to the information available (or not) at stations and shelters, that can only have been dreamt up by people who don't actually use transit in their workaday lives.
It's the subtle things like this that make OC Transpo a pain.

By contrast, in Kingston there's a lot more attention paid to these things... and there, they require transit management staff to take transit to work. I'm not sure if that's actually connected, but it may very well be. Time to institute that rule in Ottawa.
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  #102  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2015, 6:56 PM
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And the Confederation Line is basically just replacing the transitway in the same location.
It is not a new transportation line, not a new corridor, not a new transit axis.
Yes, but it is a MAJOR improvement to the existing line, in every metric (faster, more comfortable, more frequent, more reliable, higher capacity).

Once you live on the Transitway trunk and use it regularly for off peak trips you realize just how bad it is and just how much the Confederation Line really will improve those trips.
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  #103  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2015, 8:39 PM
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Yes, but it is a MAJOR improvement to the existing line, in every metric (faster, more comfortable, more frequent, more reliable, higher capacity).

Once you live on the Transitway trunk and use it regularly for off peak trips you realize just how bad it is and just how much the Confederation Line really will improve those trips.
This is a quote that we need to keep track of for 2018 and just see what the general public does say about this after the grand opening.

I really question that it will be a major improvement. For one thing, it will be LESS frequent in probably all service hours. It will have much less coverage than the Transitways, and that will continue to be the case for the rest of our lives.

It addresses one major issue and that is peak hour capacity. It will improve speed at that time but most give that back with the added transfers.

You might get a comfort improvement but I expect that a large portion of peak hour riders will be standing. That is typical of such systems everywhere. Crammed trains is the norm in most cities so if that is a comfort feature, we will see if others agree.

Reliability? Well hopefully it can outdo the Trillium Line record. When trains go out of whack, they cause major problems through the whole transit system.

For those living in the south end, the opening of the Confederation Line will make travel to downtown in off-peak hours a real pain in the neck unless multiple transfers is considered an improvement.
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  #104  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2015, 9:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
This is a quote that we need to keep track of for 2018 and just see what the general public does say about this after the grand opening.

I really question that it will be a major improvement. For one thing, it will be LESS frequent in probably all service hours. It will have much less coverage than the Transitways, and that will continue to be the case for the rest of our lives.

It addresses one major issue and that is peak hour capacity. It will improve speed at that time but most give that back with the added transfers.

You might get a comfort improvement but I expect that a large portion of peak hour riders will be standing. That is typical of such systems everywhere. Crammed trains is the norm in most cities so if that is a comfort feature, we will see if others agree.

Reliability? Well hopefully it can outdo the Trillium Line record. When trains go out of whack, they cause major problems through the whole transit system.

For those living in the south end, the opening of the Confederation Line will make travel to downtown in off-peak hours a real pain in the neck unless multiple transfers is considered an improvement.
There are plenty of other benefits involved with this project though. For one, the Confederation Line is going to glamourise transit in Ottawa in ways the Trillium Line never did. We've been relatively stagnant for a long time in terms of boosting ridership, even though we have had a solid base relative to the rest of North America. Its also started driving serious TOD around stations, ensuring that ridership will eventually be sustainable.

So far, the project execution has also been excellent when compared with certain other notable projects in the last few years, which might help restore some confidence to the electorate in how our City operates.
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  #105  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2015, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Yes, but it is a MAJOR improvement to the existing line, in every metric (faster, more comfortable, more frequent, more reliable, higher capacity).

Once you live on the Transitway trunk and use it regularly for off peak trips you realize just how bad it is and just how much the Confederation Line really will improve those trips.
I am not 100% convinced it'll me more frequent in all time periods.
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  #106  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2015, 4:45 AM
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Its also started driving serious TOD around stations, ensuring that ridership will eventually be sustainable.
Where's it doing that already?
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  #107  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2015, 2:06 PM
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Where's it doing that already?
On paper. Havent you seen the papers? They are pretty bad-ass in terms of concept, but no in terms of reality due to local opposition and building restrictions not to mention the market.
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  #108  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2015, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
This is a quote that we need to keep track of for 2018 and just see what the general public does say about this after the grand opening.

I really question that it will be a major improvement. For one thing, it will be LESS frequent in probably all service hours.
No, it will be more frequent or similar frequency in all off-peak times according to the approved frequencies, which are 5 minutes for almost all off peak times going down to 8 minutes in some late evening time periods. The Transitway theoretically is comparable, but it suffers from bunching and failed trips often. Trust me, it's quite common to have to wait 10-15 minutes for ANY bus going to St. Laurent from downtown, on a Saturday. That will be a 5 minute wait tops with the Confederation Line.

Even at rush hour, it's not uncommon, when waiting for a downtown-bound bus at Bayview or Hurdman, to have to wait 3-4 minutes for any bus (and then have 8 show up at once).

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It addresses one major issue and that is peak hour capacity. It will improve speed at that time but most give that back with the added transfers.
It will improve speeds at all times. Granted, the speed improvement in the off peak will be minor (probably no more than 2-3 minutes from Blair to Tunney's), but still an improvement. The travel time improvements will come not only from the removal of the at-grade section in the peak, but from lower dwell times at places like Hurdman, and increased speeds along the route from Hurdman to Blair (right now buses go slowly in this section because of the many curves, this will largely be removed with conversion as LRVs can do tighter turn radii and also because the curves are being smooothed as part of the conversion).

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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
You might get a comfort improvement but I expect that a large portion of peak hour riders will be standing. That is typical of such systems everywhere. Crammed trains is the norm in most cities so if that is a comfort feature, we will see if others agree.
Uhh... most riders on the Transitway, in all time periods, have to stand. Again, as a regular off peak rider on routes like the 95 I can tell you it's always crush loaded, at all times. Even late in the evenings on weekdays.

Most peak period riders will have to stand. That's only logical for a system. It would mean a huge wasted overcapacity if everybody had a seat at rush hour.

Outside of peak, though, there probably always be seats available barring special event surges. Remember that the Confederation Line is going to be running far below capacity.

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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Reliability? Well hopefully it can outdo the Trillium Line record. When trains go out of whack, they cause major problems through the whole transit system.
Outdoing the Trillium Line is certain given the obvious technical limitations that aren't shared.

And the Transitway is NOT reliable at all. Again, refer to my comment above about almost always waiting 10-15 minutes when the schedule says 7 minute headways. Even far into the off peak it's quite common to have bunching on the 95 where 2-3 95s will show up a minute apart from each other and then nothing for over 10 minutes.

When trains have the proper infrastructure (which they do for Confederation, DO NOT for Trillium), they're more reliable than buses. The old O-Train before the new trains was way more reliable than the Transitway.

Even the Toronto subway, which is notorious for being one of the most unreliable subway systems (owing to aging infrastructure that has not been adequately maintained for most of its lifespan), is far more reliable than our Transitway system even in the off peak.

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For those living in the south end, the opening of the Confederation Line will make travel to downtown in off-peak hours a real pain in the neck unless multiple transfers is considered an improvement.
Eh, it will be about the same travel time assuming the use of the Southeast Transitway. Only one transfer added, and a very easy one. Inbound, a few minutes of waiting for the train at Hurdman is cancelled out by the faster ride in. Outbound, the potential long wait for the 97 downtown is simply relocated to Hurdman (ie. transfer wait at Hurdman cancelled out by reduction of average wait time at origin).
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  #109  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2015, 2:22 AM
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Well, let's see what the public's reaction is in 2018. That will tell the tale. As far as speed, let's hope the Confederation Line trains are faster than the Trillium Line trains. Buses have always been able to travel faster on the Southeast Transitway than the trains on the Trillium Line, now much faster.
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  #110  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2015, 3:15 PM
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Well, let's see what the public's reaction is in 2018. That will tell the tale.
Agreed. With the information available at present, it's a logical conclusion that the LRT conversion will be for the better. If certain things change (ie: if the frequencies end up being less than currently improved--although that's unlikely as it would have implications on the O&M contract with RTG) maybe not. A lot also hinges on the redesign of the bus network.

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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
As far as speed, let's hope the Confederation Line trains are faster than the Trillium Line trains.
They will be. Trillium Line trains have to slow to a crawl at sidings, and their speed limit is affected by railway crossings and civil speed limits which are low given the state of the railway. Furthermore, they are diesel, which greatly slows down acceleration, whereas the Confederation Line will be electric. This is significant... according to research done by Metrolinx in Toronto for the GO RER project, the total 'stop time penalty'--amount of additional time added to a run as a result of adding a stop--is 95 seconds for a DMU train, 40 seconds for an EMU train.

We don't have any info yet on precise travel times, as that depends on train & track design specs which RTG hasn't done yet AFAIK (or if they have, not yet public info). But the P3 contract does require RTG to ensure that off-peak travel times are less than today (24 minutes).

Last edited by 1overcosc; Jun 23, 2015 at 4:51 PM.
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  #111  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2015, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Agreed. With the information available at present, it's a logical conclusion that the LRT conversion will be for the better. If certain things change (ie: if the frequencies end up being less than currently improved--although that's unlikely as it would have implications on the O&M contract with RTG) maybe not. A lot also hinges on the redesign of the bus network.



They will be. Trillium Line trains have to slow to a crawl at sidings, and their speed limit is affected by railway crossings and civil speed limits which are low given the state of the railway. Furthermore, they are diesel, which greatly slows down acceleration, whereas the Confederation Line will be electric. This is significant... according to research done by Metrolinx in Toronto for the GO RER project, the total 'stop time penalty'--amount of additional time added to a run as a result of adding a stop--is 95 seconds for a DMU train, 40 seconds for an EMU train.

We don't have any info yet on precise travel times, as that depends on train & track design specs which RTG hasn't done yet AFAIK (or if they have, not yet public info). But the P3 contract does require RTG to ensure that off-peak travel times are less than today (24 minutes).
I still laugh thinking back to Larry O'Brien's idiotic comment that travel times will be reduced by 15 minutes. He clearly misunderstood what he was being told.
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  #112  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2015, 10:54 AM
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I still laugh thinking back to Larry O'Brien's idiotic comment that travel times will be reduced by 15 minutes. He clearly misunderstood what he was being told.
I think he was basing that number on full build out as envisioned in 2008 TMP (ie: travel savings for an LRT that was fully built out from Blair to Baseline), and also factoring in reductions in average wait time due to higher frequencies. The latter is significant and does effectively reduce trip times but it's a bit misleading to say it as he did.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2015, 1:03 PM
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Yeah, Larry O'Brien was talking with reference to a double track EMU not a single track DMU.
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  #114  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2015, 3:43 AM
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New vision unveiled for upper Rideau Street

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 22, 2015 | Last Updated: November 22, 2015 6:23 PM EST


A new neighbourhood blueprint is poised to dramatically change the look and feel of Rideau Street’s eastern reach, a gateway to Ottawa’s downtown and Parliament Hill.

Although the plan for Uptown Rideau — a 1.2-kilometre stretch of road between King Edward Avenue and the Cummings Bridge — has been under development for months, some community groups remain deeply concerned about parts of it, including a mechanism for developers to play around with a building’s density (without increasing it).

The planning committee will take it up Tuesday, with council to rule on Dec. 9 — the same day it votes on the 2016 budget.

Why the update?

Rideau Street has undergone a massive transformation since 2011. The installation of new water mains, sewers, sidewalks, cycling and transit facilities, landscaping, benches and public art, as well as the opening of a future light-rail station just 600 metres from the western end of the study area, has piqued the interest of developers. Approved in 2005, the last Uptown Rideau plan limited heights in virtually the entire area to a maximum of six storeys, yet already a dozen buildings exceed that limit. Plus, there’s a desire to clear up some ambiguities about the south side of the street, which is covered by a different neighbourhood plan.

What’s there now?

A little bit of everything — restaurants, shops, offices, homes, vacant lots, a supermarket, a few towers. It’s mostly shorter buildings on the south side and some taller ones on the north side. Bytowne Cinema, Sandy Hill Community Health Centre and Rideau Bakery are all located on this strip.

What does the plan call for?

It envisions a vibrant main street with shops and restaurants located in a mix of heritage and new buildings; a street where pedestrians, cyclists and transit users would have priority over motorists. It calls for new height limits of four, six, seven and nine storeys in different sections of the street, with some site-specific exceptions. Generally speaking, building heights would increase from east to west toward King Edward. And more greenspace in the form of POPS — privately owned public spaces. Designed and built by developers, these POPS must be open to the public during the same times as regular parks. They must also have benches, bike parking, trees and lights, and remain accessible forever.

What is density transfer?

It’s basically a chance to play with volume. Developers wouldn’t be able to cram more people into a building, but they would be able to juggle height limits on the same property. They could make a building taller as long as it’s also thinner, for example. The plan outlines certain conditions and clearly identifies which areas and lots would qualify.

What are people saying?

Action Sandy Hill is opposed to density transfer because, its members say, it undermines the notion that community planning should result in more certainty. They say the cycling and pedestrian improvements aren’t good enough and remain upset over 560 Rideau St. In August, council approved a 14-storey tower here, which proposes to make use of the new density transfer policy (Action Sandy Hill is appealing council’s decision to the Ontario Municipal Board).

The Lowertown Community Association also opposes density transfer and takes issue with some of the proposed maximum building heights.

But it’s hard please everyone, writes Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury in his comments on the plan. Density transfer is a “novel approach to allowing intensification in creative ways on our traditional main streets,” he writes.

The city must not neglect the importance of Rideau Street, he adds. “From St-Joseph to Wellington, this corridor forms Ottawa’s mainstreet and it is important that we dedicate ourselves to ensuring it has the proper policies in place to grow in a way in which we can all be proud.”

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-rideau-street
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  #115  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2015, 2:11 PM
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Rideau Street should have the same height limit as the CBD... with an increase in allowable stories starting at King Edward heading east. Granted the staggering in height is good... but how can the cities core not be allowed to grow as a core?
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  #116  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2015, 2:31 AM
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Planning committee approves blueprint for Uptown Rideau

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 24, 2015 | Last Updated: November 24, 2015 7:08 PM EST


The city’s planning committee has approved a new community design plan for the eastern portion of Rideau Street that includes the concept of “density transfer”, allowing developers to juggle heights as long as they don’t increase density.

City planners argued that the concept allows for creative design solutions and doesn’t create the canyon effect of large blocks of buildings, all the same height.

The area stretches from King Edwards Avenue to the Cummings Bridge, which has been ripe for redevelopment since new water mains, sewers, sidewalks, cycling and transit facilities have been added in the past four years. A future light-rail station will be only 600 metres from the western boundary of the area.

The new plan calls for a main street with shops and restaurants located in a mix of heritage and new buildings. Pedestrians, cyclists and transit users would have priority over motorists. There will also be more “privately owned public spaces” built by developers.

There have been problems with the previous 2005 community design plan. It limited heights to six storeys, but some buildings already exceeded that limit. Meanwhile, a 14-storey tower proposed for 560 Rideau St. remains a sore point for many residents. Council approved the tower in August despite concerns that the community design plan had not yet been approved. Action Sandy Hill is appealing the decision at the Ontario Municipal Board.

Theoretically, the new plan would allow for a 25-storey building, as long as it doesn’t increase density.

Robert Tritt of the Lowertown Community Association said the group supports the plan and praised the city’s extensive public consultations, but still has concerns about density redistribution. The first test of the new plan will be in January, when Trinity Group presents plans for towers at 151 and 153 Chapel Street.

“The success of the plan will be determined by how you decide to implement it,” he said.

“It’s a massive site,” said Coun. Mathieu Fleury, who represents Rideau-Vanier. “It will be an important site to see if density transfer works.”

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-uptown-rideau
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  #117  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2015, 3:59 AM
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WHY don't we want more density downtown? I can't handle this city sometimes.
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  #118  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2015, 5:16 PM
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This has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Spend 4 years upgrading Rideau to handle an increase of use, but dont allow growth? I understand not wanting a canyon effect, but this isnt the way to do it. The city should be incouraging higher density in along main roads like this. Idiots.
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  #119  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2016, 10:59 PM
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A block of Nicholas Street closing permanently Monday

Patrick Jodoin, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 1, 2016 | Last Updated: April 1, 2016 5:37 PM EDT


Nicholas Street will be closed permanently to traffic from Rideau Street to Besserer Street as of Monday, April 4.

The purpose of the closure is to prepare for Ogilvy Square, a public pedestrian space that will feature cafés, art installations and special events. It will also have “an enhanced pedestrian surface, street trees and bicycle parking,” according to the City of Ottawa.

Construction begins Monday and is projected to be completed by the summer. Ogilvy Square is part of the ongoing renewal of Rideau Street, which the city calls “the Rideau/Arts Precinct.”

The project is being paid for by the Cadillac Fairview Corporation Ltd., the company that owns the Rideau Centre.

Businesses in the area will remain open during construction.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...anently-monday
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  #120  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 2:43 AM
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A park with no benches coming soon to Rideau Street

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 5, 2016 | Last Updated: June 5, 2016 8:22 PM EDT


Fears of homeless people loitering or panhandling are among the reasons why the city isn’t installing benches or permanent seating in a new Rideau Street pedestrian plaza currently under construction.

Ogilvy Square will replace a short stretch of Nicholas Street between Rideau and Besserer streets that was closed to vehicle traffic permanently in April.

Cadillac Fairview, which owns the Rideau Centre, is building the square to the city’s specifications as part of a site plan agreement approved after the company announced the mall’s $360-million expansion in 2013.

Drawings of the new square show a line of trees on one side and a large restaurant patio on the other. There will also be bike racks and space that can be used for various special events or for the installation of public art.

But there’s no place to sit.

The city concluded that benches or permanent seating would be hard to work around or move every time it wants to use the space for a special event, even though it remains unclear who would ultimately be responsible for programming activities in the new square, which provides a key link between the ByWard Market, the future Rideau LRT station and the redeveloped Arts Court complex that’s set to open next year.

“It’s not that permanent seats couldn’t go in a couple of locations at some point, but we’ve chosen to take a more adaptable approach and be able to monitor the success and failures of the seats as opposed to putting something in permanent and then having nothing but complaints come in for people (who) are loitering or panhandling or causing other kinds of public nuisance that we’re always responding to,” said David Atkinson, a planner in the city’s urban design unit who has overseen the recent streetscaping work along Rideau.

“We’re creating a lot more opportunity that was never there,” he said.

The city has received “nothing but complaints from business owners and the police” after some granite blocks installed along Rideau became popular places for people to sit on or congregate, Atkinson added.

But the lack of seating — and the reasoning behind it — irritates some residents and community groups.

“Vague concerns about flexible use of space and fear of itinerant individuals should not be the basis for urban planning,” Liz Bernstein, president of the Lowertown Community Association, told city officials in a letter last month.

Temporary chairs and tables, similar to what New York City introduced in Times Square several years ago, are fine for special events, Bernstein says, but there should also be dedicated seating for people who just want a place to sit during their lunch break or between stops at the various attractions nearby.

If the only seating available is on a restaurant’s patio, then the city is privatizing public space, she said.

Plus, homeless people wouldn’t necessarily be the only ones who’d use the seats. Seniors, nursing mothers and tourists may also seek out a place to sit, said Corinne Sauvé, a researcher with A Way Home Ottawa, an initiative to develop a plan for preventing youth homelessness.

Homeless people already face various forms of discrimination, including being pushed out of public spaces, she says. “That being a reason for city hall to not put any furniture on Ogilvy Square is unacceptable.”

“Having no home means that you have to find home wherever it’s possible, and public spaces allow that comfort,” Sauvé said.



Fears of loiterers and panhandlers are something Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury says he’s pushed back against before.

“We design public spaces for people,” he said. “If there are housing, mental health and addiction issues, that’s one thing we need to work towards, but it shouldn’t impact the public realm because gutting the public realm won’t improve the look and feel, won’t improve the enjoyment of the community.”

The lack of benches is out-of-sync with the city’s recent efforts in Lansdowne Park and numerous road reconstruction projects, all of which have resulted in more places for people to sit.

The first goal of the city’s Older Adult Action Plan is to help people “navigate the natural and built environments safely and with ease,” which includes installing additional benches on existing sidewalks and pathways.

Similarly, the 2014 Rideau/Arts Precinct Public Realm Plan called for the city to create a pedestrian plaza on Nicholas Street that would become an amenity for the neighbourhood by using special paving, lighting and furnishings.

Atkinson says he agrees with the philosophy of providing seats wherever possible, but says the Rideau Street area has a “different context.”

Even though Ogilvy Square is closed to traffic, he says the city must maintain a six-metre right-of-way for emergency vehicles to use, which is another argument in favour of not installing anything permanent.

Fleury says he’s trying to convince staff to designate the square as a park, which would negate the requirement to retain road access. Such a change might ultimately require the approval of committee and council.

Seating will be a key consideration once it’s clear who will be responsible for overseeing programming and events in the square, Fleury said, adding workers are installing anchors in advance to tie down any furniture that might be brought in down the road.

The new square takes its name from Ogilvy’s, the former department store that stood on that corner for more than a century. The building’s façade has been incorporated into the massive Rideau Centre expansion.

The mall and the square are both scheduled to open in August. Work on the square, as well as the sidewalk on the Rideau Street side, is costing Cadillac Fairview about $1.6 million.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-rideau-street
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