Port of Vancouver Discussion

[wrenegade]

Fantastic news. I love seeing all this Port infrastructure investment.

[Millennium2002]

Something's been bugging me with the port's expansion for the last year or so.

We hear on the news all the time about the port asking for things like an industrial land reserve and/or threatening to take over prime farmland due to a lack of good space or something like that.

And yet, I find it rather ironic that, for many years prior, they never pushed to protect or clean up the old industrial sites of False Creek, Fraser Mills, or East Fraserlands from the residential developments that are now there or are slated to come in the next several years.

Even now, I feel that they're trying to pick an easier fight for land rather than tackle industry's long-blighted image.

For example, the next set of lands to be redeveloped is slated to be the Scott Road Station area. The area is already zoned for industrial uses and can be easily protected as such, but on the ground and via satellite image it's clear that the whole place is just a mess. Surely it's not the port's fault that this happened, and there's no obligation for it to assume the land's liabilities; however, it's easy to forget how such an image leaves a lasting impression on local residents, who will inevitably opt for and are opting for something glitzier and cleaner at Surrey city hall.

So while the port complains that it wants more land, it'll most likely lose the Scott Road parcels very soon to apartments simply because it chooses the easy way and delay the inevitable cleanup for others to do.

In addition to this, I have strong doubts about the port's ability to actively manage its industrial lands for the best uses. For example, there's this giant oversized lot in the Richmond Port Lands (formerly farmland as well) which consists mostly of parking lot space for vehicles to be auctioned. That's like... the best use of space ever... not. And of course the port has just let it be for the last few years rather than figure out a way to squeeze in something else.

Here then we have these vicious transitions slowly falling into place, where farmland -> industry -> contaminated lands -> apartments or parks. And once things turn into apartments or parks, it's virtually indefinitely unusable again for industry. And so the port then takes over more farmland, and the cycle continue like mad.

Now, there is a way out of this. It entails the port buying up contaminated or otherwise unused industrial parcels, and cleaning them up or preparing them to match existing market demands. I have no doubts that this is going to be a pricey and unappealing option for now, but I feel that it needs to be done eventually if the port really wants to retain its industrial land base and behave like a good neighbour in the region.

Overall, I'd like to feel optimistic that the land mismanagement that currently exists in the industrial sector and the port (and perhaps the region) will begin to end soon, but as the economy begins to recover, more silly ironies and decisions will inevitably be made in the next little while in the quest for more quick dollars. And it scares me to think that, sooner or later, most of the farmland that remains in Metro Vancouver will instead be a port-sanctioned industrial wasteland to be covered up by more housing, while its voracious appetite for more proceeds to eat out the rest of the Fraser Valley.

Thoughts/comments/suggestions/rebuttals/etc?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Something's been bugging me with the port's expansion for the last year or so.

We hear on the news all the time about the port asking for things like an industrial land reserve and/or threatening to take over prime farmland due to a lack of good space or something like that.

And yet, I find it rather ironic that, for many years prior, they never pushed to protect or clean up the old industrial sites of False Creek, Fraser Mills, or East Fraserlands from the residential developments that are now there or are slated to come in the next several years...

As far as I know the Port has never been responsible for False Creek, Fraser Mills, or East Fraserlands, those were industrial (lumber) sites. Why should the Port clean it up?

As to the Richmond Port Lands, those are for vehicles being offloaded from Japan destined for dealers across the continent, not auction. Every major port has such a lot. Better there than in Burrard Inlet.

[officedweller]

Yeah, I don't think that False Creek was ever Federally-owned Lands.
Kits Point was a Federally-owned base (but a port was never developed there).

As for the Scott Road Station area, even though it's highly (light) industrialized, it's a community called Bridgeview - and I doubt the City of Surrey would allow it to be completely levelled for just container storage and warehouses.

[jlousa]

The Ports take good care of their own land. They have bought up a lot of industrial land lately to save it for their own future needs. It's not fair to expect them to buy industrial land that others have tarnished just for them to rehabilitate it and then let others use it, all in the name of conserving the industrial base.
The sad fact is a lot of the industrial land owners purposely don't clean up their sites especially in shoulder areas like Scott Rd, the land stays vacant that way and is an eyesore. Hold indefinitely and then try to rezone to residential as it provides the largest windfall, with little pubic backlash as the locals see it as an improvement over the status quo. There is nothing new here and has been going on for decades and not just here, same thing occurs within the ALR, lots of farm land near communities going unused waiting to be rezoned. This is where a very strong ILR and strengthening of the ALR will help as it will take away that possibility.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, I don't think that False Creek was ever Federally-owned Lands.
Kits Point was a Federally-owned base (but a port was never developed there).

As for the Scott Road Station area, even though it's highly (light) industrialized, it's a community called Bridgeview - and I doubt the City of Surrey would allow it to be completely levelled for just container storage and warehouses.

My understanding is the city and private is buying up all of bridge view for industrial use. There already is a new city park there. I rember looking at a house there years ago that was for sale and it had a no redevelopment clause in the sale as area was going to be rezoned. Also there is no structure there to build.

I built a shop there years ago and after the piles were installed and the lay out started the best you could do for layout was within an inch as there was that much movement in the pile cabs from day to day.

[GMasterAres]

The Scott Road stretch has been building up in recent years. Many of the auto wreckers are gone and industrial parks are being constructed as land is cleaned up. Port industry isn't just port owner either. You have to count port industry as those businesses supporting the port and warehouses constructed over the past 10 years such as FedEx, VanCam, and Vitran, while they aren't 100% port focused, they very much do work with the port and CN yards along that stretch.

There's plenty of land preserved for Industry in the Scott Road and Bridgeview area as per the City of Surrey land use plan:

http://www.surrey.ca/files/Southwest...dgeview.pdf‎

You'll notice the plans call for residence and residential business/commercial to mainly be restricted to around Tannery Road (to me a major connector between SFPR and Surrey Central), Scott Road station (Surrey keeps being hammered for not densifying around SkyTrain stations so this makes sense), and strips on the north side of KGB where there is already residential in place.

Outside of that everything else is Industry and you're seeing recent "upgrades" such as the Central City Brewery industry building being built, and a bunch of new things along Bridgeview Drive.

The stretch between Tannery and Bridgeview Drive I think will stay much as it is with minor changes only because land owners will sit and wait to see what happens now with the Patullo Bridge replacement. I have a friend that owned a 1 acre plot of land for example down near 116th and they sat on it as a storage lot for years until the SFPR was started then their land was purchased for well over $1 million for the purpose of a "future interchange." They wouldn't have gotten that had they not waited.

So you probably have similar happening until the alignment of the Patullo is known.

[officedweller]

Pics of the South Shore project at the Port Metro Vancouver website:

http://southshorecorridorproject.com...photo-gallery/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/

More at the link above...

[red-paladin]

I am not sure if this has been posted yet.

• Video Link

[casper]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, I don't think that False Creek was ever Federally-owned Lands.
Kits Point was a Federally-owned base (but a port was never developed there).

As for the Scott Road Station area, even though it's highly (light) industrialized, it's a community called Bridgeview - and I doubt the City of Surrey would allow it to be completely levelled for just container storage and warehouses.

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (a Federal Crown Corporation) owns Granville Island. Not certain when or how they acquired Granville island and redveloped much of the south shore of false creek but they did a fair bit of the redevelopment of that land from Industrial to Residential and Commercial. However given they have "Housing" in their name as opposed to "Port" they obviously had a different focus.

Back in the 1970 and 1980 it was politically acceptable to have the federal government, through a crown corporation, take an active role in urban planning, development and remediation of industrial land. Not certain that it would be acceptable in today's political climate. That said when you look at Granville Island today, a substantial amount of the industrial heritage was retained not just one of two token buildings here and their. It makes for an interesting comparison to the Olympic Village and the Expo lands.

[officedweller]

Yes, of course, forgot about that.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Pics of the South Shore project at the Port Metro Vancouver website:

http://southshorecorridorproject.com...photo-gallery/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/


http://southshorecorridorproject.com...ucture-photos/

More at the link above...

Can't wait until the city sponsored, Gordon Price & Co. authored study that will deem those "outdated" and call for their demolition. Should happen about 6 months after they finish construction I'll bet

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Can't wait until the city sponsored, Gordon Price & Co. authored study that will deem those "outdated" and call for their demolition. Should happen about 6 months after they finish construction I'll bet

Nah not until people are convinced the DTES is nice and they start building condos south of there.

Also I used to work in that area and I could swear they've photoshopped it to make it look much cleaner than it really is.

[GMasterAres]

That video looks good. The animation 4 down on the playlist really shows off the project which looks to be a good thing.

[amor de cosmos]

• Video Link
http://www.bcshippingnews.com/video/...e-gantry-crane

[wrenegade]

The thing is a behemoth. It's awesome to see it person.

[jlousa]

Pretty sizeable Port expansion project within Vancouver. Looks like Centerm will be expanding and investing ~$220M to double capacity from 900,000TEU to 1.8M TEUs. Cruise operations will be consolidated out of Canada Place as Ballantine will be converted to container traffic.

http://www.bcbid.gov.bc.ca/open.dll/...&filetype=Blob

[spm2013]

Sounds awesome! Can't wait for people to complain about it blocking Crab Park

[SFUVancouver]

Interesting. Thanks for the news, Jlousa.

[LeftCoaster]

Wow that is great news. Really slid under the radar but that's a big boost in capacity. I wonder given how little expansion space there is how much of this boost will come via automation and better operational efficiencies.

I like that Ballentine will no longer be a cruise ship port too, always irked me that tourists would have to bus through that part of town to get to their ships, not the best part of town to be showing off.