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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 11:38 PM
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World Cup of Hockey 2016

Pre-tournament action between Canada and the US on right now. GO CANADA GO
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 12:19 AM
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Am I the only one that thinks this tournament is a bit of a joke? Only six actual countries, an under 23 North American team and a European team made up of countries not represented.

In theory we could have North America under 23 vs rest of Europe final. What other sport would conjur up such a wacky tournament and call it the "World Cup"?
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Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 1:40 AM
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Am I the only one that thinks this tournament is a bit of a joke? Only six actual countries, an under 23 North American team and a European team made up of countries not represented.

In theory we could have North America under 23 vs rest of Europe final. What other sport would conjur up such a wacky tournament and call it the "World Cup"?
Business as usual in Bettman's world. Nope, you're not the only one who thinks this tournament is a joke. Could you imagine the FIFA World Cup doing something like this? The response among my friends and coworkers has been a resounding "meh". To me it's three things. First, the obvious gimmick teams. Then there's the fact that the tournament isn't held on any kind of schedule, just whenever the NHL feels like it. And finally, as long as NHL players are going to the Olympics that will be the only international hockey tournament that matters.

So naturally, if the World Cup is ever to have the credibility that its name suggests, they need to get rid of the gimmick teams, have it on a regular schedule, and get out of the Olympics. It would help if hockey on an international level had a more sophisticated structure. Each league operates in its own little bubble.
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Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 7:55 PM
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Business as usual in Bettman's world. Nope, you're not the only one who thinks this tournament is a joke. Could you imagine the FIFA World Cup doing something like this? The response among my friends and coworkers has been a resounding "meh". To me it's three things. First, the obvious gimmick teams. Then there's the fact that the tournament isn't held on any kind of schedule, just whenever the NHL feels like it. And finally, as long as NHL players are going to the Olympics that will be the only international hockey tournament that matters.
But that's the thing: This World Cup is entirely a test, both for interest and for revenue. How much does the NHL really benefit from the Olympics? We all know the IOC benefits, but what's the net benefit for the NHL in going? If the WCH does well my wager would be that NHL doesn't go to Seoul or Beijing, neither of which are in good timezones for viewership anyway.

The WCH is being put on by the NHL and NHLPA and that's all that anyone should need to know. It's a money-grab, eyeball-grab and not much more than that. There's no IIHF involvement, so it's not an official international tournament, which means they can't use flags or association logos or any of that stuff.

The gimmick teams are give and take. Team Europe is awful, Team North America is exciting and interesting. Team NA is like fantasyland for a lot of hockey junkies and should settle (or intensify) a lot of debates over how good younger players actually are and how useful (or not so much) hockey intangibles are (age, grit, experience).

The response among your coworkers might be meh but the arenas haven't been empty and there have been people watching, which is better than there being no hockey at all this time of year. I'm all in favour of international hockey being played way more often, it's just that this venture is being done from a revenue standpoint by the NHL, which is their entire goal in the end anyway.
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Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 8:18 PM
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But that's the thing: This World Cup is entirely a test, both for interest and for revenue. How much does the NHL really benefit from the Olympics? We all know the IOC benefits, but what's the net benefit for the NHL in going? If the WCH does well my wager would be that NHL doesn't go to Seoul or Beijing, neither of which are in good timezones for viewership anyway.

The WCH is being put on by the NHL and NHLPA and that's all that anyone should need to know. It's a money-grab, eyeball-grab and not much more than that. There's no IIHF involvement, so it's not an official international tournament, which means they can't use flags or association logos or any of that stuff.

The gimmick teams are give and take. Team Europe is awful, Team North America is exciting and interesting. Team NA is like fantasyland for a lot of hockey junkies and should settle (or intensify) a lot of debates over how good younger players actually are and how useful (or not so much) hockey intangibles are (age, grit, experience).

The response among your coworkers might be meh but the arenas haven't been empty and there have been people watching, which is better than there being no hockey at all this time of year. I'm all in favour of international hockey being played way more often, it's just that this venture is being done from a revenue standpoint by the NHL, which is their entire goal in the end anyway.
Attendance has been excellent so far. And they've only played exhibition games so far. The NHL can't help but be pleased.

I think there is a lot of pent-up interest for international hockey among the sport's fan base on both sides of the Atlantic, even if this format is kind of bogus I agree.

Good comments on the Olympics. Bettman and the owners are desperate for a way out of there but they haven't dared so far because they know their fans will crucify them if they pull their players out.
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 11:04 PM
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Good comments on the Olympics. Bettman and the owners are desperate for a way out of there but they haven't dared so far because they know their fans will crucify them if they pull their players out.
Don't really think the fan backlash is a big deal. We've had a full-season and a half-season lost to lockouts and fans still came out in force to games and to TV following both. Losing the Olympics would have less of an affect. There'll be another lockout in a few years time at the expiry of the current CBA so that would be what the Owners are primarily focused on at this point.
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Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 4:05 PM
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The marketing machine behind this makes you think this tourney is a big deal. I give them credit for it but once the games get going the warts will start to show. The kids team for Team N.A. I suspect will do better then most people think as the rest of the players are not in season form/shape yet and the kids will speed them off the ice.
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 4:23 PM
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Don't really think the fan backlash is a big deal. We've had a full-season and a half-season lost to lockouts and fans still came out in force to games and to TV following both. Losing the Olympics would have less of an affect. There'll be another lockout in a few years time at the expiry of the current CBA so that would be what the Owners are primarily focused on at this point.
It could also be that they are assessing whether having NHL stars in the Olympics is giving the league good exposure to audiences who don't normally pay attention to hockey. Kinda like the average joe who watched the swimming in Rio but won't pay attention to it for another four years.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 4:29 PM
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The marketing machine behind this makes you think this tourney is a big deal. I give them credit for it but once the games get going the warts will start to show. The kids team for Team N.A. I suspect will do better then most people think as the rest of the players are not in season form/shape yet and the kids will speed them off the ice.
Not a full house but good attendance again in Montreal last night in a city that's sometimes a challenge for these things.

I was at a family dinner last night and my dad, uncles and cousins (all of them sports nuts) had the game on and were watching semi-attentively. They eventually switched to watch the final half of Argos-Ticats instead.
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 4:39 PM
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Unless there is some super-compelling narrative that emerges, I plan on giving this tournament a pass. Call me when the NHL preseason starts.
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  #11  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 5:43 PM
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The tournament is a complete and total gimmick in itself, but it's being used a testing ground for other gimmicks. It's a real gimmick fest.

1 - On uniform ads. Every player has a teal SAP crest on their right shoulder, in all likelihood we will see NHL teams being to offer a something similar within the next 5 years. So get ready for the Molson Canadians against the Bell Maple Leafs.

2 - This is the NHL saying that it doesn't need the Olympics. Korea and China are going to be terrible timezones for TV ratings, the NHL doesn't make anything off of the tournament but they make every penny from the World Cup. Sure you lose the more casual fans that would watch just because it's the Olympics, but I guess the NHL has decided the economics support controlling revenues from a World Cup over increased attention from the Olympics.

3 - The NHL wanted to maximize the number of NHL players in the tournament, that's why we have Team North America and Team Europe instead of Slovakia and either Germany or Switzerland, who would have rosters filled with players from the KHL and domestic leagues of those countries. A player like Anze Kopitar gets to play and be marketable, instead of being sidelined because he's the only Slovenian who can skate.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 8:23 PM
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The tournament is a complete and total gimmick in itself, but it's being used a testing ground for other gimmicks. It's a real gimmick fest.

1 - On uniform ads. Every player has a teal SAP crest on their right shoulder, in all likelihood we will see NHL teams being to offer a something similar within the next 5 years. So get ready for the Molson Canadians against the Bell Maple Leafs.
Gimme a break. The league has been very clear about this, no ads on jerseys are coming anytime ever. People want to be cynical about this so hard but it just won't happen. Even the World Cup jerseys they nearly didn't have them but the league didn't change their minds until SAP had the contract and wouldn't back up.

Furthermore, I disagree with osmo, the marketing made this thing look like a total joke with no storyline and not worth watching, but the exhibition games have me interested. The advantage of this thing is that despite not being a legitimate World Championship, the players all know each other and have rivalries, and we get the roughhousing and big hits of the NHL that the Olympics and IIHF are too morally elevated to tolerate.
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 9:44 PM
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I've been wavering on the NHL for a couple years now (exacerbated by things like the last lockout and the Rogers TV deal), but if they ever decided to pull out of the Olympics, I'm done for good. Maybe if another Canadian team had a big playoff run I'd tune in.
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Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 10:19 PM
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The Olympics have not provided the boon to American national ratings that the league was hoping for so it's pretty likely they will not be delaying the season for the next two Winter Olympics overseas. This is the best we will get for the forseeable future.

Sales of World Cup tickets in Toronto have been a great success. For the 17 games there might be 3 - 4,000 tickets in total left. That's incredible despite the suspect format and the ticket prices
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 4:04 PM
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The Olympics have not provided the boon to American national ratings that the league was hoping for so it's pretty likely they will not be delaying the season for the next two Winter Olympics overseas. This is the best we will get for the forseeable future.

Sales of World Cup tickets in Toronto have been a great success. For the 17 games there might be 3 - 4,000 tickets in total left. That's incredible despite the suspect format and the ticket prices
I would suspect much of the desire to stop going to the Olympics is money. Right now there are no upcoming games that are going to be held in a country that plays the game. The NHL started going in 98 with only 2 games in that time in a country that does not play it.

98 - Japan - No growth potential but the following games to be in the US so it made sense to go and work out any kinks

02 - US - Pretty obvious US television and growth of the game.

06 - Italy - Not really on the radar but its prime time in Europe where there is growth potential and the next games in Canada so you go.

10 - Canada - That's all

14 - Russia - Again game growth prospects for Europe. NHLPA members from Russia etc.

18 & 22 - South Korea and China Respectively. No growth potential right now for the NHL so no point in going plus how many NHLPA members are there from these 2 countries.

Now if 2026 is in North America or Europe we will probably see the NHL start going to the Olympics again if the World Cup money grab gimmick does not take off.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 4:16 PM
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Sales of World Cup tickets in Toronto have been a great success. For the 17 games there might be 3 - 4,000 tickets in total left. That's incredible despite the suspect format and the ticket prices
I wonder at what point people will determine that the entertainment value of a hockey game is simply not worth the price being charged... I wouldn't have a hard time coming up with more fun ways to spend $300 than buying a single seat to watch a preseason tournament in person.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 4:30 PM
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Yeah I think the writing's on the wall that we can pretty much forget the Olympics in 2018 (for sure) and 2022 (likely).

IIHF president René Fasel, likely out of desperation, has said that the NHL may not be able to pick and choose which Olympics it wants to take part in. Based on which ones are better for marketing and visibility.

If they're out in 2018, they may be out for a while then.

Anyway, if that's the case let's hope the WC of Hockey becomes something more regular, and that resembles more of a traditional world cup tourney.

For example, it would be great and a major coup for the NHL if they held the next World Cup of Hockey primarily in Europe.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 5:01 PM
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Anyway, if that's the case let's hope the WC of Hockey becomes something more regular, and that resembles more of a traditional world cup tourney.

For example, it would be great and a major coup for the NHL if they held the next World Cup of Hockey primarily in Europe.
I think the next world cup will be with a qualification format for some counties and automatic berths for the usual suspects (Canada, US, Russia, Sweden, Finland Czech Republic). I also suspect that they would expand it from 8 teams to say 12 so 6 additional counties as they would scrap the 2 gimmick teams. This would allow them to make money off of a quarterfinal round.

I don't see the next world cup of hockey (2020 would be my guess) being played in Europe but probably in the US between a couple cities like Chicago and New York etc. Again large cities to sell tickets at high prices and make money. I see a third world cup (2024) taking place in Europe as it would help the NHL cause by then to have built up the World Cup and diminish the Olympic Participation. By then 2018 and 2022 would have happened and so Olympics would be moved down a notch by then and people in Europe would go for a World Cup that could be considered a decent tournament by then.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 5:07 PM
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I think the next world cup will be with a qualification format for some counties and automatic berths for the usual suspects (Canada, US, Russia, Sweden, Finland Czech Republic). I also suspect that they would expand it from 8 teams to say 12 so 6 additional counties as they would scrap the 2 gimmick teams. This would allow them to make money off of a quarterfinal round.

I don't see the next world cup of hockey (2020 would be my guess) being played in Europe but probably in the US between a couple cities like Chicago and New York etc. Again large cities to sell tickets at high prices and make money. I see a third world cup (2024) taking place in Europe as it would help the NHL cause by then to have built up the World Cup and diminish the Olympic Participation. By then 2018 and 2022 would have happened and so Olympics would be moved down a notch by then and people in Europe would go for a World Cup that could be considered a decent tournament by then.
Agreed about the US hosting the next WCH.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 5:21 PM
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Kind of a nothing tournament, but it has entertained me so far. Should make for a great start to the season having so many players in prime game shape already (so long as they don't get injured).
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