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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 8:58 PM
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I got questions...

...and I was hoping to throw them out here, as it seems so many forumers are much more astute, capable and diligent at digging up these things than I am.

1. If the population of Ontario is 13+ million and the Golden Horseshoe is about 8.8 million (wikipedia), that leaves some 4.2 million people in the rest of Ontario.

Question: Really? Where are they? I mean, you've got 1 million in Ottawa, you've got a few cities like London and Thunder Bay, but I just can't wrap my head around there actually being 4.2 million people outside of the western edge of Lake Ontario. Where are these people? Or am I missing something?

2. How much has the downtown population of Toronto grown over the last 10, 20 and 30 years?

3. One classic thing Toronto's got is basement restrooms in narrow restaurants. It's rare for the restroom to be on the same floor of the dining room unless you're in a high class joint or out in the more spacious suburbs. In Toronto, if you gotta go, then you gotta go down. But has this ever been celebrated in art anywhere? Why don't more people know about it? I think I want to write a screenplay where a fat visitor from out of town decides to hold it instead of going to all the bother of huffing and wheezing down and then back up that narrow staircase where, inevitably, you have to stop halfway down and turn sideways to allow passage to someone else. Why isn't this a "thing"?

4. How many classic outside staircases to a second floor foyer are there in Montreal? Has anyone ever counted them? (see, my questions aren't just about Ontario and Toronto!)
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:05 PM
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Windsor - 400,000
London - 500,000
Ottawa - 1,000,000
Kingston - 100,000
Thunder Bay - 100,000
Sudbury - 100,000
Barrie - 230,000
Peterborough - 100,000
S.S Marie - 100,000
Muskoka / Cottage Country - 200,000
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  #3  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:09 PM
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4.2 Million people

London - 400,000
Hamilton 700,000
Ottawa 1,000,000
Windsor 500,000
K/Waterloo 600,000
Thunder Bay 100,000

Add in St Catherines, Burlington and the rest of the communities like sudbury/timmins/etc... and smaller communities along the 401... not hard to wrap your head around.
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  #4  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:11 PM
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Hamilton 700,000
St Catherines 400,000
K/Waterloo 600,000

are included in the 8.8 million....
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  #5  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:15 PM
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Well, London with 500,000, Thunder Bay, 110,000? Then there's Windsor-Essex with almost 400,000 people, and K-W with over 500,000, Chatham-Kent with 110,000. Then there's Sarnia, Brantford, Peterborough, stratford, Barrie, Kingston, SSMarie, North Bay, Sudbury, Guelph, Timmins, Belleville, Cornwall and lots of smaller towns.
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  #6  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
Hamilton 700,000
St Catherines 400,000
K/Waterloo 600,000

are included in the 8.8 million....
K-W are considered Golden Horseshoe now?
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  #7  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:25 PM
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1. a) Yes. b) Ontario has a high "small city and town" density. If you compare Ontario with Nova Scotia, there are about 6/10 of NS population in greater Halifax and GReater Sydney despite the areas being NS's only urban areas. The rest of the 4/10 is made up of small cities and towns like Truro (12,000), New Glasgow (10,000), Amherst (9,000). There are dozens of them of various sizes along with rural residents scattered through the areas nearby. Ontario has over 6/10 (nearly7/10) of is population is the Golden Horseshoe, but it also has many dozens of small towns and cities spread throughout the rest of Ontario, mainly in the densely populated southern area. If you look at a map of Ontario and observe the dense town/city network, it isn't so surprising that a notable percentage of the population is held outside the core urban areas. c) No

2. Not sue

3. No idea

4. a) Based on Google streetview, I'd say tens of thousands. b) I'd sincerely hope not. I feel sorry for anyone with that much free time and obsessive/compulsive tendencies.
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  #8  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north 42 View Post
K-W are considered Golden Horseshoe now?
Yes, and so is Barrie and even Peterborough. The extended area the contains the 8.8 million is fairly large.

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  #9  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 10:01 PM
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  #10  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
Windsor - 400,000
London - 500,000
Ottawa - 1,000,000
Kingston - 100,000
Thunder Bay - 100,000
Sudbury - 100,000
Barrie - 230,000
Peterborough - 100,000
S.S Marie - 100,000
Muskoka / Cottage Country - 200,000
S. S Marie is only 100,000 if you count Sault Michigan. I think Northern Ontario's population is around 550,000. That's what I heard last year but that could have changed by now.
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  #11  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
3. One classic thing Toronto's got is basement restrooms in narrow restaurants. It's rare for the restroom to be on the same floor of the dining room unless you're in a high class joint or out in the more spacious suburbs. In Toronto, if you gotta go, then you gotta go down. But has this ever been celebrated in art anywhere? Why don't more people know about it? I think I want to write a screenplay where a fat visitor from out of town decides to hold it instead of going to all the bother of huffing and wheezing down and then back up that narrow staircase where, inevitably, you have to stop halfway down and turn sideways to allow passage to someone else. Why isn't this a "thing"?

Yeah this is definitely a Toronto thing. Pretty much every bar and restaurant in older parts of the city you gotta go downstairs. Love it when they haven't dug out the basement too so the ceiling is only a few inches above your head (or almost touching if you are tall).

A friend of a friend was trying to open a bar in Hamilton and had the application refused because the only place for bathrooms was in the basement For accessibility reasons they had to build new ones on the main floor. So maybe people outside TO just aren't used to this? I've been to a couple bars in Ottawa with basement bathrooms - still not quite the same though.

In short I have no idea.
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by feepa View Post
Great link, thanks.
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  #13  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwils01 View Post
S. S Marie is only 100,000 if you count Sault Michigan. I think Northern Ontario's population is around 550,000. That's what I heard last year but that could have changed by now.
Summertime population from Bruce Mines to Batchawana would likely be 100,000. That's the only way I could stretch the Sault to 100,000 without crossing the border.
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  #14  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 12:22 AM
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How many people live outside the GGH, and where:


(With regards to the incompletely enumerated reserves, this affects almost all reserves in Kenora District, reducing its population by nearly 8,000.)

An explanation of the GGH's population and growth over the past 20 years, reposted from SSC:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso
Vid: you're probably the best person to ask. The population data on Wikipedia regarding the population of the Golden Horseshoe and the Greater Golden Horseshoe is for 2006. If I wanted to figure out what the corresponding numbers are for 2011 what's the easiest way to do it.

Combining various CMAs leaves out all the towns and rural areas in between. What counties constitute the GH and GGH or is it a combination of counties and municipalities. Ontario is so confusing. I wish they'd just divide everything up into counties like other provinces/states.
The Golden Horseshoe is generally considerd to include the regional municipalities of Durham, York, Peel, Halton and Niagara and the cities of Hamilton and Toronto. All of thses are considered by Statistics Canada to be Census Divisions, which is equivalent to a county.



The Golden Horseshoe proper is in red. The Greater Golden Horseshoe is in green.

The Greater Golden Horseshoe includes the counties, regional municipalities and cities of:

Northumberland
Peterborough
Kawartha Lakes
Simcoe
Dufferin
Wellington
Waterloo
Brant and Brantford
Haldimand

It is easier to explain with a spreadsheet, so I've spent over an hour making this for you, and by you I mean me because I am curious, too.



So, to answer your question:

Golden Horseshoe: 7,005,486 (7.98% from 2006; 37.87% since 1991)
Greater Golden Horseshoe: 8,759,312 (7.28 from 2006; 37.33% since 1991)

We can use these numbers to get a rough estimate that that in 2031, the Golden Horseshoe will have approximately 9,600,000 people and the Greater Golden Horseshoe will have approximately 12,000,000. That is assuming the growth rate of the next 20 years is similar to the growth rate of the past 20 years. (I used 37% to get the calculations; which is actually a bit lower than the growth since 1991.)

Other areas in 2031:

Toronto might have 3,010,000 people
York Region might have 2,110,000 people
The GTA might have 8,660,000 people
Hamilton proper might have 600,000 people
Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge might have 750,000 people
Simcoe County might have 690,000 people
Something I didn't take into account in the prediction above is that growth in the GGH has been slowing over time.
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  #15  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 1:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
4. How many classic outside staircases to a second floor foyer are there in Montreal? Has anyone ever counted them? (see, my questions aren't just about Ontario and Toronto!)
That's a strange question and I wouldn't be able to answer. Maybe 50,000?
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  #16  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 1:57 AM
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3. I never gave this much thought, I just assumed this was a byproduct of awkwardly long floorplans in old buildings. I can think of a couple restaurants/pubs in old downtown London buildings that also feature basement restrooms. Maybe people don't really stop to ponder it because it's a common occurrence.
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  #17  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 2:23 AM
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Quote:
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That's a strange question and I wouldn't be able to answer. Maybe 50,000?
I guess the question was asked because he was wondering whether it is just one small area of the city with outdoor staircases that is always photographed, or if it truly is a wide swathe of the city that is like this. The answer is that not all of Montreal is like this, but certainly a very large portion is like this.

Also, outdoor staircases in the Montreal style are not limited to that city and are not just a phenomenon of the past. I live in Gatineau 200 km from Montreal and there are condos just down the street from me with outdoor staircases, Montreal-style. They were build around 2002 I would say. It's far from the only place in Gatineau you see this - outdoor staircases are very common on low-rise condo and apartment buildings here, and elsewhere in Quebec.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 3:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolognium View Post
3. I never gave this much thought, I just assumed this was a byproduct of awkwardly long floorplans in old buildings. I can think of a couple restaurants/pubs in old downtown London buildings that also feature basement restrooms. Maybe people don't really stop to ponder it because it's a common occurrence.
It's not common anywhere outside of Toronto. And it's not due to "awkwardly long floor plans," but rather Toronto's narrow Victorian shopfronts that were never meant to be restaurants when they were built a hundred years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acajack
Also, outdoor staircases in the Montreal style are not limited to that city and are not just a phenomenon of the past. I live in Gatineau 200 km from Montreal and there are condos just down the street from me with outdoor staircases, Montreal-style. They were build around 2002 I would say. It's far from the only place in Gatineau you see this - outdoor staircases are very common on low-rise condo and apartment buildings here, and elsewhere in Quebec.
I bet there aren't any across the river in Ottawa. Right?
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  #19  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 6:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
It's not common anywhere outside of Toronto. And it's not due to "awkwardly long floor plans," but rather Toronto's narrow Victorian shopfronts that were never meant to be restaurants when they were built a hundred years ago.
I actually see this alot in Montreal too, especially, as you say, in restaurants in old buildings like you'd find in the Plateau.
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  #20  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 2:46 PM
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I've spent some time eating in (on?) the Plateau and never came across basement restrooms, but I'll take your word for it.

Thanks for that excellent graphic, vid!
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