Highway 102 - Larry Uteck Boulevard Interchange | Completed

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Actually I don't believe those are roundabouts in Moncton they are rotaries I believe.

You might be right.

I'll have to ask the Moncton thread.

[Dmajackson]

I'm too impatience to wait for a responce in the Moncton thread so I looked it up.

The two I know of are considered traffic circles or rotaries so Haliguy is right this time.

They do have one planned for this summer though.

EDIT: I looked it up further and while Moncton has no official roundabouts other areas in NB such as Ormocto and Mirimachi have some.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Actually I don't believe those are roundabouts in Moncton they are rotaries I believe.

They are rotaries but we tend to call them "traffic circles" here in Monctonia. They are located at Hall's Creek next to Champlain Place and at the Moncton end of the Petitcodiac River causeway.

Unique to Moncton in North America, these two traffic circles are connected by a four lane divided expressway (Wheeler Blvd.) with a speed limit of 100 km/hr. Needless to say, you have to do some heavy duty slowing down to enter the traffic circles from Wheeler!!

The Hall's Creek traffic circle works reasonably well and, like all "rotaries", the cars actually inside the traffic circle has the right of way. The causeway traffic circle however has a much smaller radius and frequently gets backed up, especially by traffic trying to enter the circle from Wheeler Blvd, and as such, the traffic here tends to default to a "roundabout" pattern with the traffic already in the circle stopping to let merging cars in.

Just to confuse the situation even more, the traffic planners here are actually planning to build at least two formal roundabouts at a couple of complex intersections in the next couple of years.

This will leave us with:
- a traffic circle that functions as a rotary
- a second traffic circle that is supposed to function as a rotary but actually functions more like a roundabout if traffic is congested
- two roundabouts that actually will be roundabouts.

Take care when driving in Moncton and don't forget to dodge the potholes.

[mylesmalley]

Moncton has a pretty storied history when it comes to roundabouts.About ten years ago the city tried to address the traffic problem at Botsford and Mountain by painting a giant yellow dot in the middle of the intersection and getting rid of the traffic lights. People were supposed to drive 'around the giant dot' like a roundabout. If memory serves it lasted about a week. People just drove straight through and the whole thing basically turned into a four way stop. The two traffic circles have been quite a bit more effective. The main problem with the causeway circle is that it's one lane too narrow on one side. Logistically it's a mess to widen unfortunately.


As for the rest of NB. Oromocto has quite a few roundabouts and they function quite effectively. Miramichi has at least one as well. Fredericton has a half dozen or so micro-circles which are basically standard size residential intersections that are designed to function as a roundabout. Moncton has a couple of these in one of the urban-rural fringe big lot developments.


The four-circle design being proposed here is actually a very common sight in Europe. Almost all interchanges in Ireland use at least one roundabout. Typically they use a diamond interchange with roundabouts on either side. Less commonly, you'll see a single large roundabout that connects all the ramps on and off the highway, as well as the connecting roads. The highway usually either goes above or below the circle.

[someone123]

The 102 interchange project looks much larger than I had originally thought. I guess a stretch of the highway will become six lanes..?

They did some work near there a while ago and I guess it was the Kearney Lake connector piece.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Moncton has a pretty storied history when it comes to roundabouts.About ten years ago the city tried to address the traffic problem at Botsford and Mountain by painting a giant yellow dot in the middle of the intersection and getting rid of the traffic lights. People were supposed to drive 'around the giant dot' like a roundabout. If memory serves it lasted about a week. People just drove straight through and the whole thing basically turned into a four way stop. The two traffic circles have been quite a bit more effective. The main problem with the causeway circle is that it's one lane too narrow on one side. Logistically it's a mess to widen unfortunately.


As for the rest of NB. Oromocto has quite a few roundabouts and they function quite effectively. Miramichi has at least one as well. Fredericton has a half dozen or so micro-circles which are basically standard size residential intersections that are designed to function as a roundabout. Moncton has a couple of these in one of the urban-rural fringe big lot developments.


The four-circle design being proposed here is actually a very common sight in Europe. Almost all interchanges in Ireland use at least one roundabout. Typically they use a diamond interchange with roundabouts on either side. Less commonly, you'll see a single large roundabout that connects all the ramps on and off the highway, as well as the connecting roads. The highway usually either goes above or below the circle.

I didn't realize there were so many around NB.

Yean in Europe there a lot and they work really well.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Yes and you guys are traffic engineering experts .

I know I don't like to drive through the bloody things, and that should be all I need to express an opinion. What's with the fucking attitude anyway? I can guarantee you a LOT of people on this board are not traffic engineering experts, or structural engineering experts, or design experts - yet we all express our opinions as equals without being bitched at. Seriously, that comment was uncalled for. Are you traffic engineering expert?? By your logic, if you're not, that should invalidate all of your comments in this thread too. Can you imagine if we all had to have some sort of credentials to be allowed to post replies on SSP? I can guarantee you a lot of people would be talking to themselves. Try and have some respect for other peoples' opinions, ok? Don't just brush them off and say 'oh, you're not an expert, so your opinion means nothing '

Anyway, speaking of rotaries, look at the Mic Mac roatry. That thing was always backed up like a son of a bitch, the interchange makes things much, much quicker through there.

[mylesmalley]

There are three problems with rotaries that I can think of. I'll say now that I can't speak to Halifax because I'm only really familiar with NB roads. That said, most of this should apply regardless.

First, (at least in Moncton) people are quite used to massive multi-lane traffic circles, but not traditional small roundabouts. The important thing to keep in mind about the Halls Creek circle though is that the vast majority of people never need to merge or change lanes when they use it. the way the lanes are laid out, there are dedicated lanes for people staying on Route 15. Technically speaking, you never lose the right of way if you're going from Wheeler Blvd. towards Shediac even as you pass through the circle. This works great in this instance because most traffic flows this way. The problem here lies in the fact that this interchange therefore doesn't act as a pure roundabout in the strictest sense.

Second. People just don't know proper roundabout etiquette. You are always supposed to yield to people already in the circle. In a situation like the causeway circle, traffic on Wheeler can back up for more than a Km because traffic on Main St. gets access to the road first and Wheeler is supposed to yield to them. However, people don't really get this and you often end up with cars alternating between Wheeler and Main. While this might seem courtious, all it does is back up cars coming from Main and those coming from Riverview and Salisbury. (By the way, you can see all this on my project map of Moncton ). The obvious solution is to just widen the circle either radius-wise, lane-wise or both.

Third. People just don't like change.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

I know I don't like to drive through the bloody things, and that should be all I need to express an opinion. What's with the fucking attitude anyway? I can guarantee you a LOT of people on this board are not traffic engineering experts, or structural engineering experts, or design experts - yet we all express our opinions as equals without being bitched at. Seriously, that comment was uncalled for. Are you traffic engineering expert?? By your logic, if you're not, that should invalidate all of your comments in this thread too. Can you imagine if we all had to have some sort of credentials to be allowed to post replies on SSP? I can guarantee you a lot of people would be talking to themselves. Try and have some respect for other peoples' opinions, ok? Don't just brush them off and say 'oh, you're not an expert, so your opinion means nothing '

Anyway, speaking of rotaries, look at the Mic Mac roatry. That thing was always backed up like a son of a bitch, the interchange makes things much, much quicker through there.

Sorry if I offended you didn't think you would take to heart like that. If you had said something like I don't like roundabouts because ..... then yeah its your opinion... but to say what idiot came up with that is kind of ignorant thats all.

Its funny how people think they know so much more than the people who design these roads. Just like Cheucto Rd where people were saying that won't work like the the people who design them came off the street and started designing them or something.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Sorry if I offended you didn't think you would take to heart like that. If you had said something like I don't like roundabouts because ..... then yeah its your opinion... but to say what idiot came up with that is kind of ignorant thats all.

Its funny how people think they know so much more than the people who design these roads. Just like Cheucto Rd where people were saying that won't work like the the people who design them came off the street and started designing them or something.

It is true that people often falsely believe that they know better than engineers or professionals in various fields, but at the same time there are a lot of times when ideas carried out by professionals end up working very badly when all is said and done. Yeah they've been trained for years in a certain field, but it doesn't mean that some of them aren't idiots. It helps to keep an open mind about ideas, whether you're making six figures designing bridges or you bus tables just to pay the rent - often times neither side is "right."

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

...but to say what idiot came up with that is kind of ignorant thats all.

No it's not. I hate rotaries/roundabouts/traffic circles, so to me whoever designs them or commissions them are idiots.

Its funny how people think they know so much more than the people who design these roads. Just like Cheucto Rd where people were saying that won't work like the the people who design them came off the street and started designing them or something.

Oh for christ sakes... this is a discussion board. Meant for discussing. Unless anybody has something concrete to backup their statements, everything discussed should automatically be treated as opinion.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

No it's not. I hate rotaries/roundabouts/traffic circles, so to me whoever designs them or commissions them are idiots.


Oh for christ sakes... this is a discussion board. Meant for discussing. Unless anybody has something concrete to backup their statements, everything discussed should automatically be treated as opinion.

No offense but maybe your the idiot if you can't drive through them they aren't that difficult they are really aren't. The rest of the world uses them without any problem and work very well.The roundabouts at Larry Utech will work well but I guess you would rather have traffic lights because roundabouts are so difficult for eh. By the way comparing them to the old MicMac rotary just shows you have no idea what your talking about because it is not the same thing at all. So maybe you should know what your talking about before you call them idiots.

Why don't you just say you don't like them instead of saying the designers are idiots. Its not designers fault you don't like them

[mylesmalley]

A rather ridiculous application of roundabouts is in Swindon, UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)

Note that there are actually five roundabouts next to each other connected by a larger two-way roundabout.


Also, here's an interesting website put together by British road enthusiasts:

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/reference/interchanges/

It also has quite an extensive glossary of good (and poor) interchange designs. It doesn't take much browsing around to see that the British really love their roundabouts.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

No offense but maybe your the idiot if you can't drive through them they aren't that difficult they are really aren't.

I said I didn't like them, I never said I was unable to navigate them. I navigate the Armdale roundabout every now and then, that doesn't mean I love doing it. I don't care how much of the world loves them and swears by them, I'm just said that I personally, me, myself and just me, not speaking on anyone elses' behalf, do not like them. That is all I've said.

Why don't you just say you don't like them...

I DID ALREADY. In fact I said it a couple of times, I thought I had made it clear by now that I do not like them. Note that I never said nobody else shouldn't like them, and I also never said I am unable to use them, I just said I don't like them. Why can't you understand what I'm saying? I don't like them! And because I personally do not like them, I personally (ME, ME, ME - this is MY OPINION) think the people who commission them are idiots. Again, this is MY OWN OPINION, and I do not claim to represent anybody elses' opinion.

It's like I have to add a fucking disclaimer from now on when I'm expressing personal opinion...

[Dmajackson]

I was by this area this weekend and much of the forest has been cleared away. There are quite a few large stacks of wood sitting on the side of the highway.

[Spitfire75]

I drive the 102 pretty often. I drove by this yesterday and it's really coming along. Both sides of the highway are deforested and you can kinda see where the streets are going to go already.

[Dmajackson]

I was reading the provincial website today and starting tomorrow they are starting a massive repaving/widening/median repair job tomorrow (April 18th).

It stretches from the 101 (Exit 4B) down to Hammonds Plains. While the new interchange might not be in this stretch I think they are doing this part so over the next 12 months they can fix up down to Kearney LAke with the construction of the interchange.

Here are some photos I snapped from the corner of Southgate Drive and Larry Uteck tonight;

[Dezzo]

A new portion of Larry Uteck Blvd. is now open between Starboard Dr./Bedros Ln. and Southgate Dr.

The new section is just wide enough for a single lane in each direction. There don't appear to be any driveway cuts in the curb on either side along the entire new portion, so hopefully this means that access points will be consolodated, and the majority of the new section of Larry Uteck Blvd. can flow unimpeded.

It's also not as wide as recent minor collector roads, such as Parkland Dr. or Baker Dr. which means there likely won't be any room for curbside parking.

So it will be interesting to see how the development of this area proceeds. Hopefully they get it right!

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Dezzo

A new portion of Larry Uteck Blvd. is now open between Starboard Dr./Bedros Ln. and Southgate Dr.

The new section is just wide enough for a single lane in each direction. There don't appear to be any driveway cuts in the curb on either side along the entire new portion, so hopefully this means that access points will be consolodated, and the majority of the new section of Larry Uteck Blvd. can flow unimpeded.

It's also not as wide as recent minor collector roads, such as Parkland Dr. or Baker Dr. which means there likely won't be any room for curbside parking.

So it will be interesting to see how the development of this area proceeds. Hopefully they get it right!

Welcome to the forums "Dezzo"

I've been using Larry Uteck since it was opened a few weeks ago and I've noticed the same things.

I've looked at the plans and the lack of curb cuts says to me they plan to do the buildings later on at which point they'll redo the curbs. There are currently three spots off the road where construction is going on and I believe they are using some of the future condo locations for excavation to use a fill further up the hill. Only one of these has a proper curb cut so I imagine a building will be going up there soon.

I've also noticed the road width and it is very strange to me. Starboard Drive is a much more minor road and it is at least twice as wide as LU. This is just speculation but like you said they might ban parking going up the hill and just make it a two lane street with a middle alternating lane if theres space.

One thing to note though is LU has a couple of curb cuts up past Southgate (where the road is still being built) for what I believe is the commercial properties.

[Dmajackson]

With the approval of the capital cost sharing thing last night Council also approved the funding for the new interchange to be split with the province.

I think they said the tenders is currently out there and should be awarded by the province sometime next week.