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  #2301  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2014, 6:49 PM
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^ That's correct.

In terms of it's surroundings, I'm positive there will be lots of ancillary development in the future. The area along Woodward in the coming decade will be too valuable to waste on open space.

BTW, Lmich, I share you sentiment on the loss of the name. I'd love to have the name transferred. It seems though there are few stadiums these days without a corporate name.
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  #2302  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2014, 6:22 AM
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I think that Detroit has been lucky with Ford Field and to a lesser degree Comerica Park. Neither one is overly blatant like some stadium names. I have a feeling it will be called the Rock Financial Forum or something like that, and the nickname will be "The Rock".
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  #2303  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2014, 6:22 AM
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I'm huge on reuse, and often to others' annoyance, but the Joe's exterior has exactly zero architectural value. It was built in a rush and on the cheap to keep the Red Wings from bailing to the suburbs...and it shows. It worked for what it was, and worked really well in spite of itself, but the location is awkward and it's got to be one of the ugliest arenas around.

Sure, recycle the steel, but what's the architectual argument for saving it? How is it comparable to Cobo Arena in what can be done with it in a reconstruction?


Fox Sports

The only thing I'll miss about it is the name. You know much like when the Tigers lost their stadium, that the new name will be corporate.
I definitely agree its architecture is nothing to rival Tiger Stadium or the Silverdome, but I think both the historical and architectural components of a facility should be factored in. It's seen a lot of Red Wings hockey which is one of the few constant things Detroit has had going for it.

As for what I'd do with it, I'd have to look at what the plans are for the convention center, but my initial thoughts are it should either have the precast seating sections gutted for an expanded exhibit hall or have its seating drastically reduced for either mid sized events or performing arts. Then there's the whole Maple Leaf Gardens concept of building buildings within a building.

But yea, I think the name is what draws it to me more so than anything else. Would really hate to lose it, especially after losing architecturally significant places like Tiger and Olympia.
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  #2304  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2014, 8:25 AM
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Originally Posted by hudkina View Post
I think that Detroit has been lucky with Ford Field and to a lesser degree Comerica Park. Neither one is overly blatant like some stadium names. I have a feeling it will be called the Rock Financial Forum or something like that, and the nickname will be "The Rock".
You know, given that this is the Ilitch's last hurray, and with Detroit being their hometown, it'd be really nice for them brand it themselves (after Olympia Entertainment, of course).

But, yeah, they'll probably sell the naming rights. The worst case scenario is that they did what they did with the NCAA Motor City Bowl, and do self-branding of another one of their companies, and we get something like Pizza!Pizza! Arena, or some such sh%t. lol
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  #2305  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2014, 12:51 PM
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Looks like the on-and-off redevelopment of Brush Park is back "on". Hopefully, this attracts some one other than Crosswinds.

Quote:


Detroit's historic Brush Park may finally see a revival

By John Gallagher | Detroit Free Press

January 8, 2013

Detroit’s historic but largely vacant Brush Park district might finally come in for redevelopment under a new request for proposals issued by the City of Detroit.

The city owns most of the vacant area in the district and is asking developers to submit ideas to build new market-rate housing with a historic architectural theme on almost 9 acres of land, enough space for at least several dozen units or more of townhouse-style residences. The project also would include redeveloping a handful of the historic 19th-Century mansions still standing but vacant.

Unlike the city’s previous stabs at redevelopment in Brush Park, which fell victim to poor economic conditions and a deteriorating housing market, this one takes place in a time of rising demand for residential space in the downtown and Midtown districts.

...

“I think it’s probably one of the most desirable places to live in Detroit,” said Jim Marusich, manager of real estate development for the city’s Planning & Development Department.

The city’s request asks developers to submit ideas for two main parcels. The biggest parcel covers about 7.5 acres in an area bounded roughly by John R, Brush, Edmund and both sides of Alfred. It contains a total of 40 separate pieces: 36 vacant lots and four historic house. A 1-acre parcels lies east of Brush between Alfred and Division.

Austin Black II, a real estate broker active in the greater downtown area, said the project is important because it promises to deliver much-needed new residential units to the market. There’s a shortage not just of rental apartments but of for-sale condominiums and townhouses, too.

...

Developers have until Feb. 5 to submit their proposals to the city. The request for proposals can be found on the city’s website at www.detroitmi.gov by clicking on “departments,” then on the Planning & Development Department page, and then clicking on for request for proposals.

The city’s request said a decision will be made later in February.

...


Ryan Garza | Detroit Free Press


Ryan Garza | Detroit Free Press
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  #2306  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2014, 2:10 PM
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Didn't Crosswinds go kaput? Anyway, yea, I'm really hopeful some good proposals come from this. I don't think the Crosswind townhomes are bad by themselves, but they really don't compliment the historic homes at all.
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  #2307  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2014, 8:11 AM
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I forgive them to the extent that they were the first developer to really take a chance, but beyond that, they are ugly and lookg and are completely out of place and out of scale being built right on Woodward. They kind of redeemed themselves with the Garden Lofts, though. Now that I think about it, didn't they do the renovations for the Brownstones on John R. pictured above? I guess I was a little harsh on them. They got better as they went on, mostly. I hadn't heard they'd liquidated.

But, yeah, I have much greater hope for development than the renaissance of the early 00's, when you really had folks with a lot of heart, but not a whole lot of experience. People are both dreaming bigger things and doing bigger things than they once were. I have all the confidence in the world that we're going to get a quality project or two out of this.
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  #2308  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2014, 11:35 PM
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There were recent plans for one of the smaller buildings on John R that looked great. Are those plans still on?
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  #2309  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2014, 2:29 AM
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David Whitney is reportedly 45% of the way through renovations.

New Rendering (or at least it seems newish)


Currently (as of December).

(click images for full size)

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...-rendering.php
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  #2310  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 7:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMich View Post
I'm huge on reuse, and often to others' annoyance, but the Joe's exterior has exactly zero architectural value. It was built in a rush and on the cheap to keep the Red Wings from bailing to the suburbs...and it shows. It worked for what it was, and worked really well in spite of itself, but the location is awkward and it's got to be one of the ugliest arenas around.

Sure, recycle the steel, but what's the architectual argument for saving it? How is it comparable to Cobo Arena in what can be done with it in a reconstruction?

The only thing I'll miss about it is the name. You know much like when the Tigers lost their stadium, that the new name will be corporate.
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I definitely agree its architecture is nothing to rival Tiger Stadium or the Silverdome, but I think both the historical and architectural components of a facility should be factored in. It's seen a lot of Red Wings hockey which is one of the few constant things Detroit has had going for it.

As for what I'd do with it, I'd have to look at what the plans are for the convention center, but my initial thoughts are it should either have the precast seating sections gutted for an expanded exhibit hall or have its seating drastically reduced for either mid sized events or performing arts. Then there's the whole Maple Leaf Gardens concept of building buildings within a building.

But yea, I think the name is what draws it to me more so than anything else. Would really hate to lose it, especially after losing architecturally significant places like Tiger and Olympia.
The Joe is basically a large hanger that doesn't really have much going for it architecturally. As LMich says it was built quickly and on the cheap.

Coming back from out west I was disappointed personally how far from the ice some of the upper bowl seats were (call it cavernous?) after the atmosphere at the Olympia (Yes, I'm that old). And the steps were the only way in at first save the elevator off Atwater. The suites were an afterthought and really in the nether regions. I won't miss the place.
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  #2311  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 8:29 AM
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Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
David Whitney is reportedly 45% of the way through renovations.

New Rendering (or at least it seems newish)
They forgot to incoporate the streetcar platform (and maybe shelter) into the rendering. In fact, they'll be right across the street from the Whitney and Broderick near the corners of the park right there on Woodward.
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  #2312  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2014, 1:47 PM
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I'm just skimming this article in today's News about the Cass Park entertainment district, but is Cass Park actually being handed over to Olympia Entertainment, or just the management of the square, you know, like what was done with Campus Martius? I was under the impression that just like in my city, that handing over parkland requires a popular vote.
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  #2313  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2014, 4:00 PM
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Popular vote by the city council maybe.
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  #2314  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2014, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Metro Detroit Gets Ready to Grow with Transit-Oriented Development
NINA IGNACZAK | THURSDAY, JANUARY 16, 2014



All around the Motor City, people are starting to talk transit.

In 2013, M-1 Rail broke ground along Woodward in Detroit, work commenced to speed up the Pontiac-to-Chicago Amtrak line, talk of an Ann-Arbor to Detroit commuter line moved incrementally closer to reality, AirRide expanded bus service between Ann Arbor and DTW, Bus Rapid Transit emerged as the preferred alternative for regional mass transit, and after 40 years of failed attempts, a Regional Transit Authority was finally established for metropolitan Detroit.

Now, public officials and developers across the region are readying themselves to reap the economic potential of functional transit - something many cities across the country have already done.

[Chris] Leinberger expects that trend to take place in Metro Detroit - both in the city and in the suburbs.

"Probably 40-50 percent of walkable urban development will be in the center city," he says, "but the majority of it -50 to 60 percent- will be in surrounding suburbs in places like Birmingham, Ferndale, Royal Oak, and Ann Arbor."

A 2013 study by the Institute for Transportation and Development Policy suggests those places can expect significant economic activity. The study measured the economic impact of Cleveland's HealthLine BRT, which leveraged $5.8 billion in economic development over five years from a $200 million initial investment - an ROI nearly 30 times the initial construction cost.

"We're behind the curve in starting this process," says Richard Murphy, Programs Director at the Michigan Suburbs Alliance and Washtenaw County representative to the RTA.

In 2012, Murphy worked with five southeast Oakland County communities to develop a South Oakland Woodward plan outlining TOD-friendly policies each city should adopt in preparation for rapid transit - things like increasing building heights and establishing zero lot-lines and parking restrictions.

"The plan is a good example of how we should be approaching TOD in the region," says Murphy.

Brad Strader, a consultant with LSL Planning who worked on the plan, agrees.

"All of the Oakland County community representatives are enthusiastic about transit and TOD, and the developers just want to know where the stations will be," he says.

The City of Ferndale already has much of the zoning in place, according to Derek Delacourt, Director of Community and Economic Development for Ferndale.

"A functional, well-designed rapid transit system along Woodward is an opportunity for the city to evolve," he says.





The City of Dearborn is also planning for TOD. Working with the Michigan Municipal League to develop a place-based TOD strategy for its new multi-modal train station, the city plans a mix of uses at a scale appropriate for transit users and pedestrians, according to Luke Forrest, Program Coordinator with MML.

"The plan orients development to rail commuters, calling for a mix of uses like a coffee shop, a dry cleaner, and a newsstand, anchored by housing," says Forrest. "It also connects with west downtown Dearborn, which is only a couple of blocks away but feels much farther because today it's hard to walk to from the train station."

Murphy sees potential for TOD across many of metro Detroit's corridors, such as 8 Mile and Gratiot.

"Gratiot is the next place for TOD," says Murphy. "It's the highest ridership corridor in the region and the homework has been done by Macomb County and the local governments, so they have a lot of the pieces in place."

Meanwhile in Detroit, Dan Gilbert's Rock Ventures continues to snap up land and buildings along Detroit's Woodward corridor ahead of M-1 Rail.

"What we have seen around the country is tremendous economic development on transit routes," says Matt Cullen, CEO of Rock Ventures and M-1 Rail. "The benchmarks suggest four to as much as eight times the investment in transit, you get back in economic development. So that puts us into the billion-dollar range."

M-1 Rail worked in collaboration with multiple partners to complete a Downtown Detroit Woodward TOD study. The plan was an opportunity to coordinate multiple plans completed by various groups over the years and get everyone on the same page, says Cullen.



Sue Mosey, President of Midtown Detroit Inc., sees an urgent need for more mixed-income housing in the Woodward corridor, something she thinks will only increase after rail begins operating in 2015. But even though Midtown is currently 97 percent occupied, Mosey says a financing gap remains because the market is so undervalued.

That gap is narrowing, according to Cullen.

"The gap is much smaller now than it used to be," he says. "Market rents are increasing, and plenty of people want to live along the Woodward corridor."

But as rents rise, low- and moderate-income residents can be pushed out.

"We need mixed-income development," says Cullen. "Before there wasn't any demand, but now we have an opportunity for the same kind of mixed-income housing as many areas across the United States."

Ensuring commercial development within a TOD serves mixed incomes is critical, according to Scot Spencer, transit equity expert and Associate Director at the Annie E. Casey Foundation.

"In many places with TOD, there's no provision that the mix of uses allows for a mix of incomes," says Spencer. "The services along transit stops are important to someone for whom transit is not a choice or luxury. Are there day care centers or social services agencies helping folks who are transit-dependent?"

To help bridge the finance gap, investors have established a Woodward Corridor Investment Fund to provide longer-term funding with lower equity requirements than traditional financing typically allows.

"Our investors have stepped up to make the longer-term commitment," says Ian Weisner, Senior Loan Officer with the fund. "We are willing to take the risk of a 20 percent loan-to-value ratio over 30 years, because we have faith that the market is undervalued."

The $30-million fund already has $54.5 million in applications that would create 540 units, says Weisner. The first projects are expected to be announced in 2014.

Leinberger calls this long-term investment strategy "patient equity."

"Ten years from now, those investments will look inspired," he says. "It's your classic buy-low and sell-high scenario."


Last edited by animatedmartian; Jan 16, 2014 at 11:26 PM.
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  #2315  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2014, 10:21 PM
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I should have kept working at Toyota and bought some houses in Ann Arbor and Detroit.
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  #2316  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2014, 11:43 PM
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I should have kept working at Toyota and bought some houses in Ann Arbor and Detroit.
Metro Detroit home prices up 41% since December 2012

No kidding. Though the bigger factor in this case is a general lack of new residential on the market rather than any major positive changes. Unemployment has been going down but at a rate similar to the rest of the country if not a little slower.

However, there's still hope. Prices in Detroit ought to remain low while the city is going through bankruptcy and there's still plenty of blight to content with. But I suspect that once the city is order (services, crime, and blight), transit is improved (at the least, improved bus service), and more jobs are being generated (rather than just moved around), then oh yea, real estate has no where to go but up.
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  #2317  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 8:24 AM
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To be clear, prices in the city are on the rise, too - maybe even more than the region at large. The catch being, of course, that the housing market in the city is so incredibly low and abnormal, that we're just trying to get it back to where it could be considered a normal market. And, that is still many, many years off, even as city services and quality of life return to a sustainable level.

Detroit proper will remain for many more years a place to buy a home if you're looking to actually live in the city, you know, if you have a good job and good pay are looking to do something beyond ladder climbing across the country. It's not going to be a sellers market anytime soon...and that's not necessarily a bad thing for the certain kind of person I mentioned.

I'd like to add that I'm talking about the city proper as a whole. There will be neighborhoods and regions of the city that will return to a normal market much sooner than others. For instance, I see a lot of neighborhoods in the northwest being able to compete with inner-ring suburban hoods in a few years. I think the greater downtown area will reach a tipping point very soon transitioning from fringe places which still attrack "urban pioneers" to full on yuppie-mode. Then, you'll have a lot of working-class and middle-class neighborhoods in the out-city, which will once again compete with the inner-suburbs. Then, you'll have a kind of ring right on the edge between the greater downtown and out-city neighborhoods that I think will continue to struggle in parts, and there will also be some out-city areas, too, which will continue to struggle (Delray, Oakwood Heights, Boynton in the Southwest, Brightmore in the farwest, etc...)
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  #2318  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 8:37 AM
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The release of that article couldn't have come on a worse date. lol I only say this because while everything they talked about, transit-wise, is most likely still going to happen, in the past week, we've had these setbacks:

1. John Hertel pulled out of being the CEO of the RTA because of lack of funds for a proper staff. This sent the board scrambling trying to figure out if they should still mount a campaign for funding for BRT this year, or wait until 2016, which would push the project back by at least that many years. I can't even believe this is being debated, just pull the trigger, already.

2. It was announced just yesterday that M-1 Rail's chief administrative officer is quitting, and she didn't even give a good explanation of why she was leaving, leaving everyone nothing but to guess reason.

3. The guy who has headed up SEMCOG's Ann Arbor to Detroit regional rail is saying that it could be another two or three more years before they can get the project started because MDOT is still behind on a lot of things along the line, such as the West Detroit Connection Rail Project at Junction, which was funded in 2012, but which still hasn't started construction. MDOT has the project included in this years budget, I think, but who knows. Even more to the point, SEMCOG really wants to hand this off to the RTA, but the RTA can't do much of anything until it gets its own house in order.

Again, it looks like all of these things are still on, and the Woodward streetcar is almost definitely a go since prelim construction work is already underway. But, as usual, there seems to be a lack of urgency. Some of the blame can be placed with the political situation in Lansing, and some of it can be placed with the kind of lazy and/or timid mass transit culture of Southeast Michigan. I just hope we get people in place, soon, who are screaming to get things moving from the rooftop. I hope the new CEO will be a vocal zealot when it comes to mass transit in the region, because the region needs a kick in the pants, at the moment.
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  #2319  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 3:55 PM
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Those are only small details in the overall picture. At this point, everyone is at least aware of the benefits of transit and TOD. At worse, it just means a lot of new developments will still have to be accompanied by multistory parking garages or parking lots in farther out suburbs. But in a lot of places mentioned in that article, as well as some not mentioned, have already set up zoning and planning for the possibility of transit.

The new goal for a lot of municipalities around SE Michigan is to become more walkable and appealing for yuppies. Some suburbs will pull this off better than others (the Southfield fiasco seems to be the worse so far) but generally it's in a good direction.

It would actually probably be more problematic if we were in a boom growth stage because then those setbacks would have bigger impacts as there would be a flurry of developments built without any consideration for the eventual transit that'd come. So really, we're lucky to be in a slow growing economy if you look at it that way. Although it is true that transit can't be delayed for too long before the economy continues to pick back up and TOD really starts to become important.
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  #2320  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 6:54 PM
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I guess it's not that easy to change the leather seats of your SUV for an overcrowded rail car... Go Detroit! They can do it! In the end, it's all capital gain and social progress. Looks like they can feel it now, though.
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