CHICAGO | General Developments

[ardecila]

Some details can be found here.

Essentially a revamped pedestrian tunnel and a cloverleaf walkway are being put in to consolidate all bike/ped traffic on the north side of the bridge. This, in turn, is being done to make room for a longer right turn lane onto SB LSD, and to remove any source of pedestrian/auto conflict for these turning movements.

[ChiPhi]

^^^

Finally, the lack of design elements for people riding bicycles for transportation seems to violate the city of Chicago's Complete Streets policy, which require that all modes of transportation, including bicycle transportation, be accommodated in street redesign. All over the city, our forward-thinking city planners are reducing the number of car lanes to put streets on a "road diet", but this road is being fed steroids and goose fat instead. If there is a technical loophole that allows this design, we feel that it’s still a violation of the spirit of our Complete Streets policy.

Sounds perfect...

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Uptown is probably a worse bet than Garfield. People have been saying "Uptown is going to develop" for decades and it is still a long ways off because of entrenched institutional problems related to massive Section 8, mental health, and elder care facilities that dominate the area.

The city recently closed a notoriously bad mental clinic on Howard, so these "institutional problems" aren't necessarily locked in for eternity. And elder care facilities don't really cause any neighborhood problems.

Uptown's biggest problem is it takes 40 minutes to get to the Loop on the red line. It takes less time to get to the Loop from Naperville via the Metra rush hour trains, and Naperville is 35+ miles away. I therefore see no reason why Uptown won't continue to get passed over for Edgewater and Rogers Park, where there are other transit options and less crime (outside of a few pockets, of course). Also a Loyola building boom with a large student presence can do more for a neighborhood than a new TIF Aldi and Target.

[Kenmore]

Originally Posted by Marcu

The city recently closed a notoriously bad mental clinic on Howard, so these "institutional problems" aren't necessarily locked in for eternity. And elder care facilities don't really cause any neighborhood problems.

Uptown's biggest problem is it takes 40 minutes to get to the Loop on the red line. It takes less time to get to the Loop from Naperville via the Metra rush hour trains, and Naperville is 35+ miles away. I therefore see no reason why Uptown won't continue to get passed over for Edgewater and Rogers Park, where there are other transit options and less crime (outside of a few pockets, of course). Also a Loyola building boom with a large student presence can do more for a neighborhood than a new TIF Aldi and Target.

I'm not here to be a booster for Uptown but the half truths and outright lies are odd and worthy of correcting. The loop transit options in the three far north hoods are the same (red line, 147, 151, 146, 136) with Uptown's being the best (takes me 12 minutes to get to the mag mile)...especially with a purple line stop coming as part of a complete Wilson overhaul.

Violent crime in Rogers Park has also been much more significant of late than in Uptown...RP has had 5 murders in 2012 to none in Uptown. Development in Uptown is also proceeding nicely, no matter how hard people like to pretend it's not.

I'm not sure what it is about Uptown that drives the constant hyperbole.

[Kingofthehill]

Hey, guys. On the topic of neighborhoods, I have a question: how much caution is advised for daytime exploration in North Lawndale and West Garfield Park? I love all of the greystones over there (and once read that North Lawndale has the city's largest concentration), and hope to photograph some of them, provided it isn't too dangerous.

I am really curious about the whole Douglas Park area, and think it has alot of potential. Additionally, how gentrified is East Humboldt Park nowadays? Occasionally, I read about a new bar/resto opening up, and how its proximity to Wicker Park/Bucktown mean lots of new, younger types are moving in and fixing things up.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Hey, guys. On the topic of neighborhoods...

WGP and North Lawndale... just be aware of your surroundings and dont make yourself an easy target and you'll be fine. And like anywhere else, walk with a purpose.

East Humboldt is getting there as people priced out of WP/BT/UK start spreading westward. Had a friend who took me out to look at a few properties near Mozart and Augusta and I was pleasantly surprised.

[Kenmore]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Hey, guys. On the topic of neighborhoods, I have a question: how much caution is advised for daytime exploration in North Lawndale and West Garfield Park? I love all of the greystones over there (and once read that North Lawndale has the city's largest concentration), and hope to photograph some of them, provided it isn't too dangerous.

I am really curious about the whole Douglas Park area, and think it has alot of potential. Additionally, how gentrified is East Humboldt Park nowadays? Occasionally, I read about a new bar/resto opening up, and how its proximity to Wicker Park/Bucktown mean lots of new, younger types are moving in and fixing things up.

http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/n...ood/west-town/

East Humboldt made some progress but it has slowed way down with the housing collapse..I think the hipster gentrification push will favor Avondale instead.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Marcu

...
Uptown's biggest problem is it takes 40 minutes to get to the Loop on the red line.
...

Scheduled service is 22 minutes from Wilson to State/Lake. I'm sure at rush hour things get backed up, but I'm equally sure they don't get backed up by 18 minutes any more often than Metra does.

[Buckman821]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Hey, guys. On the topic of neighborhoods, I have a question: how much caution is advised for daytime exploration in North Lawndale and West Garfield Park? I love all of the greystones over there (and once read that North Lawndale has the city's largest concentration), and hope to photograph some of them, provided it isn't too dangerous.

I am really curious about the whole Douglas Park area, and think it has alot of potential. Additionally, how gentrified is East Humboldt Park nowadays? Occasionally, I read about a new bar/resto opening up, and how its proximity to Wicker Park/Bucktown mean lots of new, younger types are moving in and fixing things up.

The entire boulevard system in general has a ridiculous stock of greystones. Caution is absolutely advised. If you want to go on a photo tour of West Garfield and Lawndale, which have the best and highest concentrations I recommend you do it with a car. That way you can size up each individual block and decide if you feel comfortable getting out and taking a photo. I wouldn't recommend straying too far from your car though. Taking the el down there and just walking around probably isn't something I would do. Just FYI I know these areas very well, I sell apartment buildings out there so I know what I'm talking about.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Hey, guys. On the topic of neighborhoods, I have a question: how much caution is advised for daytime exploration in North Lawndale and West Garfield Park? I love all of the greystones over there (and once read that North Lawndale has the city's largest concentration), and hope to photograph some of them, provided it isn't too dangerous.

I am really curious about the whole Douglas Park area, and think it has alot of potential. Additionally, how gentrified is East Humboldt Park nowadays? Occasionally, I read about a new bar/resto opening up, and how its proximity to Wicker Park/Bucktown mean lots of new, younger types are moving in and fixing things up.

It's not that dangerous as long as you aren't stupid about it and showing off your brand new $10,000 camera. I'd go with one or two other people, but as long as you aren't dumb no one will bother you.

I'm making long term bets on Douglas Park right now, it has a ton of potential especially with Cinescape being right there and Lagunitas building a huge brewery in the near future. The South and East of the park could be the "urban miracle" of the 2010's at this rate. However, it is still a very risky play.

East Humbodt is definitely redeveloping, but suffers from poor access to rail transit. As Kenmore mentioned, it seems that Avondale/North Logan Square is the logical outlet for the northwestern push of development. I've made a series of investments in Avondale as well. I'd like to do the same in Humboldt, but I just don't see as much potential when you are more than 4 or 5 blocks from the EL. Once you cross Western and North, you are in no man's land for transit as you are a full half mile from the train in either direction. Once you get to California and North you are a whole mile. Meanwhile almost all of Avondale is within 1/2 mile of the EL.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Buckman821

The entire boulevard system in general has a ridiculous stock of greystones. Caution is absolutely advised. If you want to go on a photo tour of West Garfield and Lawndale, which have the best and highest concentrations I recommend you do it with a car. That way you can size up each individual block and decide if you feel comfortable getting out and taking a photo. I wouldn't recommend straying too far from your car though. Taking the el down there and just walking around probably isn't something I would do. Just FYI I know these areas very well, I sell apartment buildings out there so I know what I'm talking about.

Or you can just go on the tour with Buckman and I as your bodyguards and we'll cap any fools who mess with you...

Our services will cost you two beers though.

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by Kenmore

I'm not here to be a booster for Uptown but the half truths and outright lies are odd and worthy of correcting. The loop transit options in the three far north hoods are the same (red line, 147, 151, 146, 136) with Uptown's being the best (takes me 12 minutes to get to the mag mile)...especially with a purple line stop coming as part of a complete Wilson overhaul.

Violent crime in Rogers Park has also been much more significant of late than in Uptown...RP has had 5 murders in 2012 to none in Uptown. Development in Uptown is also proceeding nicely, no matter how hard people like to pretend it's not.

I'm not sure what it is about Uptown that drives the constant hyperbole.

Not sure what portion of what I said is an "outright lie". I didn't mean to to disparage Uptown, if that's how it came off. I lived there for some time, and enjoyed it. But commuting from there to western portions of the Loop (Wacker) wore on me. That's more of an indictment of the CTA than Uptown itself, and I simply offered it as a possible explanation of why gentrification may be skipping Uptown over for say Bryn Mawr or the Loyola area, both of which have seen significant redevelopment.

Anecdotally, people seem to think that Uptown looks "rougher" than the "leafier" hoods to its north. That may explain the often unjustified hyperbole that you are sensing.

Once the housing mess is resolved, there is no reason why all three hoods wouldn't fully (or mostly) gentrify fairly quickly.

Originally Posted by emathias

Scheduled service is 22 minutes from Wilson to State/Lake.

[Kenmore]

Originally Posted by Marcu

Not sure what portion of what I said is an "outright lie". I didn't mean to to disparage Uptown, if that's how it came off. I lived there for some time, and enjoyed it. But commuting from there to western portions of the Loop (Wacker) wore on me. That's more of an indictment of the CTA than Uptown itself, and I simply offered it as a possible explanation of why gentrification may be skipping Uptown over for say Bryn Mawr or the Loyola area, both of which have seen significant redevelopment.

Anecdotally, people seem to think that Uptown looks "rougher" than the "leafier" hoods to its north. That may explain the often unjustified hyperbole that you are sensing.

Once the housing mess is resolved, there is no reason why all three hoods wouldn't fully (or mostly) gentrify fairly quickly.

Your explanation doesn't fly...how is transportation to the loop better from Brynn Mawr or Loyola than from Uptown?

EDIT: the leafier thing make some sense, the roughest part of the hood is what most just passing through see...most of the hood north of Lawrence, south of Montrose and the A'ville portions is already pretty gentrified...people just go out of their way to call these areas by their more specific neighborhood names and distance them from Uptown's rep.

Anyways, the new Ald. seems more than willing to put pressure on and close large problem buildings which is something totally new to the area, i remain optimistic and anticipate something quality at the maryville site when the time is right.

[Kenmore]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

It's not that dangerous as long as you aren't stupid about it and showing off your brand new $10,000 camera. I'd go with one or two other people, but as long as you aren't dumb no one will bother you.

I'm making long term bets on Douglas Park right now, it has a ton of potential especially with Cinescape being right there and Lagunitas building a huge brewery in the near future. The South and East of the park could be the "urban miracle" of the 2010's at this rate. However, it is still a very risky play.

East Humbodt is definitely redeveloping, but suffers from poor access to rail transit. As Kenmore mentioned, it seems that Avondale/North Logan Square is the logical outlet for the northwestern push of development. I've made a series of investments in Avondale as well. I'd like to do the same in Humboldt, but I just don't see as much potential when you are more than 4 or 5 blocks from the EL. Once you cross Western and North, you are in no man's land for transit as you are a full half mile from the train in either direction. Once you get to California and North you are a whole mile. Meanwhile almost all of Avondale is within 1/2 mile of the EL.

Avondale has some issues and I find it to have a less attractive building stock but the compass is certainly pointed in that direction.

Re: Logan, I think most of the best deals in the prime locations have been snagged up for some time but there's certainly more room to go up. I'm less impressed with the prospects for the far south/west parts of the neighborhood...same transit issue as HP and even further out.

Douglas Park is an interesting long term play but there are only so many urban pioneers out there, especially now with the market still in wait and see mode. Another wave of people returning ot the city would make things more interesting.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ Avondale certainly has less attractive stock than say Humbolt Park, but that is largely a function of it being a lower density more "working class" neighborhood when it was built. There is a lot more frame housing there than Humboldt. That said, Milwaukee Ave from Logan Square to Central Park has the best strip of retail buildings NW of North/Damen. Everything else in Logan is pretty shoddy and broken up. I have a feeling we'll see a new retail center rev up at Milwaukee and Diversey over the next decade.

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

^^^ Avondale certainly has less attractive stock than say Humbolt Park, but that is largely a function of it being a lower density more "working class" neighborhood when it was built. There is a lot more frame housing there than Humboldt. That said, Milwaukee Ave from Logan Square to Central Park has the best strip of retail buildings NW of North/Damen. Everything else in Logan is pretty shoddy and broken up. I have a feeling we'll see a new retail center rev up at Milwaukee and Diversey over the next decade.

I would generally agree with that assessment re Milw but it may take longer than a decade, sometimes progress in neighborhood redev is painfully slow. Hell we are approaching. 10 years since Business week pointed to EGP as the hottest urban turnaround neighborhood......it still has a way to go. Yet it does face certain challenges that the milw corridor doesn't,t really.

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by Kenmore

I'm not here to be a booster for Uptown but the half truths and outright lies are odd and worthy of correcting. The loop transit options in the three far north hoods are the same (red line, 147, 151, 146, 136) with Uptown's being the best (takes me 12 minutes to get to the mag mile)...especially with a purple line stop coming as part of a complete Wilson overhaul.

Violent crime in Rogers Park has also been much more significant of late than in Uptown...RP has had 5 murders in 2012 to none in Uptown. Development in Uptown is also proceeding nicely, no matter how hard people like to pretend it's not.

I'm not sure what it is about Uptown that drives the constant hyperbole.

Yeah it true there was a spike, there were 4 homicides including a double in January. In the long rum UT and RP have similar violent crime levels though neither is much above or below the other, and both area share a peculiarity that what violent crime there is fairly localized and among almost exclusively certain demographic groups.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by lawfin

I would generally agree with that assessment re Milw but it may take longer than a decade, sometimes progress in neighborhood redev is painfully slow. Hell we are approaching. 10 years since Business week pointed to EGP as the hottest urban turnaround neighborhood......it still has a way to go. Yet it does face certain challenges that the milw corridor doesn't,t really.

True, but Avondale is a just a bit less chalenging to redevelop than EGP don't you think?

Seriously though, Avondale is changing extremely fast right now. When I moved into my building I was the only non-hispanic / non-polish person on my street. Now the entire 6 flat next to me is full of recent college grads, my building is full of young professionals, and several young families and professionals have moved to my street. That's all in the course of just over a year. There are also two art studios opening up on Milwaukee just south of Central Park, the Hairpin lofts building at Milwaukee and Diversey just finished renovations and the Gap building is about to start. That's not to mention all the stuff going on between Logan Square and Diversey (Everyone calls it Logan Square, but it's kinda a no man's land between Avondale and LS right there, most of "Logan Square" is to the South of the Square). Anyhow, I'm just waiting for the first coffee shop to open up near me to declare the area as truly gentrifying. There would be a lot of business for a coffee shop at Milwaukee/Diversey/Kimball...

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by emathias

Scheduled service is 22 minutes from Wilson to State/Lake. I'm sure at rush hour things get backed up, but I'm equally sure they don't get backed up by 18 minutes any more often than Metra does.

Sounds right. I rode downtown from Berwyn for over 10 yrs. The ride was usually 30 minutes.

[lawfin]

ΔΔ what is a shame is that the blue does not continue under Milw and instead goes over to the expressway, if the damn blue line continued out Milw milw would probably develop of have developed into one of the great stretches of nearly interminable urban mixed use on the continent.....including NYC.