HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > General Discussion


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 6:54 PM
officedweller officedweller is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 38,230
Remember that a number of enclosed "arcades" existed on Robson Street and have or are in the process of being converted or filled in.

"Robson Galleria" - where the Gap, Settebello's and Below the Belt? are/were located was an indoor mall/arcade (no doors, just an overhead gate came down at night - so it was "open") - that's why the barrel vaulted atrium is there.

Ditto for the location where Bluenotes, Bread Garden and Moxies are/were - that was an indoor mall/arcade too.

Now the plaza/arcade with Tsunami Sushi, etc. is being enclosed for Forever 21.

Over time, each failed to attract customers into the space and have been converted to conventional streetfront retail.

Ditto for "arcades" in Yaletown.
Empress and Empress II (Homer & Helmcken) and The Murchies Building (Homer & Davie) were originally converted as strata-titled retail arcades. There are other examples in Yaletown too. None of them are successful.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 7:33 PM
ckkelley's Avatar
ckkelley ckkelley is offline
Bridge Walker!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Forest City
Posts: 1,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by s211 View Post
See my post above.
lol, yeah I saw your post.
__________________
Just chimin' in.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 7:38 PM
ckkelley's Avatar
ckkelley ckkelley is offline
Bridge Walker!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Forest City
Posts: 1,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonfiction View Post
I think a lot of people are taking this article to heart as some personal assault on the people of Vancouver, but I didn't get that from the article. He wasn't saying Vancouver lacks vibrancy, just that our planning and space does little to facilitate it and doesn't react to the Vancouver environment well. We should be setting the pace on living in a rainy, mild and sunny environment. Instead we have malls suited to hardcore winter cities and streets that can be unpleasant for half of the year. A better use of space downtown and well configured retail space is really one of the only things Vancouver is missing IMO.
I don't know if the author of the article created the headline but it's just way off. 'Vancouver misses out on creating vibrant city life'. It's a ridiculous notion. How many cities in the world wished they had Vancouver's downtown? PLENTY, in fact city planners from around the world come to Vancouver to study how to improve their own downtowns. Not vibrant? I don't think so.
__________________
Just chimin' in.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 8:02 PM
stevai stevai is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 26
"But we [in Vancouver] rely excessively on being beautiful and being next to nature. All our planning tends to focus outward toward the views, and there has been no attention to the street-level experience for people.

Actually, pretty sure Vancouver pays above average attention to the street-level experience. The approval process for any development application downtown always has a substantial focus on the street-level design and pedestrian scale. So this claim of "no attention" is bogus.


"It has been known to rain here," he observes dryly. "Yet we've paid no attention to building underground passageways among shopping centres -Pacific Centre and Bentall Centre, for example."

Actually, there has been attention paid to undeground passageways... Although limited, Bental Centre, which connects to Royal Centre, along with Pacific Centre, which connects to Vancouver Centre is somewhat of a basic foundation for an underground network similar to PATH in Toronto. Again, this claim of "no attention" is bogus.


"I look at the park where I live at Coal Harbour. Why not use the first 30 or 40 feet of grass -cover it over with retail opportunities, use part of the walkway for chairs where people can sit out and drink and eat and enjoy themselves?

It's not clear what park he is referring to exactly, but maybe he should look a bit harder along the waterfront in Coal Harbour to where there are stretches of retail and patios to eat and drink along the seawall. I'm not sure there would be enough market demand for this along the entire stetch... last time I checked the new new retail spaces along the seawall at the new convention centre still had plenty of For Lease signs.

"The same thing at False Creek. There are beautiful opportunities to build retail right out onto the waterfront so people can stroll and stop for a beer.

Again, has this guy even been to false creek? Fails to mention the stetch of restaurants and sidewalk patios between the bridges.


He has obvious points with the rest of the article. Doesn't take much to see that for yourself.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 9:59 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 39,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
...in the summer only. Which goes back to the whole point on only looking outward/relying on nature and the region's fortunate geographic location.
i've been there in winter, spring and fall and it has people - of course dependant on rain - which is going to be a factor anywhere in the city

no one wants to hang outside in the rain
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 10:17 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,829
Arrow please read again

Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
Why the hate for Arcades? For narrow streets (or perhaps converted alleys) they are brilliant.

What one has to remember, is that if we DON'T build these covered areas for shopping, we WILL have more and more people flocking to Pacific Centre Mall and Metrotown.

Some [urbanist] people here tend to be all about the "urban experience" but I keep seeing "suck it up", "buy an umbrella", "it's just water", "this is Vancouver" and "wear a hood" but fail to actually offer a way to make the outdoors more inviting in inclement weather.

The reality of this is that when you're shopping downtown in the rain you've got one hand holding your [paper] shopping bags, the other with a mobile phone/handbag/other utility in hand... and you've got no hands free for an umbrella... at least not for long periods of time.

How about this down Robson(Lyons, France):


Take out one lane of parking, widen the sidewalks and add a canopy. A two-story curved canopy would also work.

I think it's a splendid idea. There could be different styles with the same mechanical structure. This style in the photo might do well, for example in Yaletown, maybe Gastown. Robson could have the same awnings, only with coloured canvas (material your preference) to accent its upbeat nature. All kinds of places in the city are ripe for this idea .... in a town known for its rain.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 10:22 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Remember that a number of enclosed "arcades" existed on Robson Street and have or are in the process of being converted or filled in.

"Robson Galleria" - where the Gap, Settebello's and Below the Belt? are/were located was an indoor mall/arcade (no doors, just an overhead gate came down at night - so it was "open") - that's why the barrel vaulted atrium is there.

Ditto for the location where Bluenotes, Bread Garden and Moxies are/were - that was an indoor mall/arcade too.

Now the plaza/arcade with Tsunami Sushi, etc. is being enclosed for Forever 21.

Over time, each failed to attract customers into the space and have been converted to conventional streetfront retail.

Ditto for "arcades" in Yaletown.
Empress and Empress II (Homer & Helmcken) and The Murchies Building (Homer & Davie) were originally converted as strata-titled retail arcades. There are other examples in Yaletown too. None of them are successful.

What you state is a real shame. Are there cities of similar size range to Vancouver where such galleries are extant and DO work? This depends on the wealth of the city in part, but also on the attitudes and lifestyle preferences of the people living there. Are there examples you might give? Thanks for an interesting post.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 10:23 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 39,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevai View Post
"But we [in Vancouver] rely excessively on being beautiful and being next to nature. All our planning tends to focus outward toward the views, and there has been no attention to the street-level experience for people.

Actually, pretty sure Vancouver pays above average attention to the street-level experience. The approval process for any development application downtown always has a substantial focus on the street-level design and pedestrian scale. So this claim of "no attention" is bogus.


"It has been known to rain here," he observes dryly. "Yet we've paid no attention to building underground passageways among shopping centres -Pacific Centre and Bentall Centre, for example."

Actually, there has been attention paid to undeground passageways... Although limited, Bental Centre, which connects to Royal Centre, along with Pacific Centre, which connects to Vancouver Centre is somewhat of a basic foundation for an underground network similar to PATH in Toronto. Again, this claim of "no attention" is bogus.


"I look at the park where I live at Coal Harbour. Why not use the first 30 or 40 feet of grass -cover it over with retail opportunities, use part of the walkway for chairs where people can sit out and drink and eat and enjoy themselves?

It's not clear what park he is referring to exactly, but maybe he should look a bit harder along the waterfront in Coal Harbour to where there are stretches of retail and patios to eat and drink along the seawall. I'm not sure there would be enough market demand for this along the entire stetch... last time I checked the new new retail spaces along the seawall at the new convention centre still had plenty of For Lease signs.

"The same thing at False Creek. There are beautiful opportunities to build retail right out onto the waterfront so people can stroll and stop for a beer.

Again, has this guy even been to false creek? Fails to mention the stetch of restaurants and sidewalk patios between the bridges.


He has obvious points with the rest of the article. Doesn't take much to see that for yourself.
very true - some of the retail near the westin comes and goes - many little businesses have tried to set up in there and within months end up shutting down - even the urban fare in that area can feel quite empty

there is a great plaza on south false creek seawall somewhere just about 10 mins east of granville island - its got the retail surrounding it that he calls for but its basically a crappy convenience store and no one seems to go there to hang out and it's a pretty prime location for residents but they don't seem to support it and if you throw in a starbucks than people complain about that

vancouver has tried many things and supports many things and festivals - the ones that have survived are things like the childrens festival or the folk fest etc.

a lot of events also seem to be rather exclusive and if you don't know about them the organizers are happier that you don't and enjoy their little closed intimate events to themselves and thats a problem with vancouver on a lot of levels - many complain about the lack of this or that and if you aren't in the right circle you just don't get it and will never become privy to it but if you are in the right circle its the greatest city in the world - vancouver is very clicky and i think exclusive in a lot of ways

I meet so many people who say vancouver isn't friendly and i always say no it's a great city but when you think about - you have the west end people not wanting a new rental building cause they don't want more people in THEIR west end, people on the west side or kits don't want social housing in THEIR neighbourhood, how dare the city densify cambie street, we don't want OUR views messed with etc etc. what a bunch of self-centered entitled sense of being people are they

I know people who live in the west end and hate the fact that "surrey people" are roaming robson street or granville street and they hate the fireworks cause it brings in "them" and its just so tired

the city tries and the people fail
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 10:50 PM
simonfiction simonfiction is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Remember that a number of enclosed "arcades" existed on Robson Street and have or are in the process of being converted or filled in.

"Robson Galleria" - where the Gap, Settebello's and Below the Belt? are/were located was an indoor mall/arcade (no doors, just an overhead gate came down at night - so it was "open") - that's why the barrel vaulted atrium is there.

Ditto for the location where Bluenotes, Bread Garden and Moxies are/were - that was an indoor mall/arcade too.

Now the plaza/arcade with Tsunami Sushi, etc. is being enclosed for Forever 21.

Over time, each failed to attract customers into the space and have been converted to conventional streetfront retail.

Ditto for "arcades" in Yaletown.
Empress and Empress II (Homer & Helmcken) and The Murchies Building (Homer & Davie) were originally converted as strata-titled retail arcades. There are other examples in Yaletown too. None of them are successful.
Aren't most of these gallerias rather than arcades? I can see why they wouldn't have worked and the ones I've seen on Robson don't look all that welcoming.

An arcade though - an actual passage way with a beginning and an end, covered with shops lining them - I could totally see that working in Vancouver.

Just as an example, here's a picture of one in my home city of Cardiff. It links two busy streets so tends to feed them rather than suck away street life.



Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 1:09 AM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
loafing in lotusland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lotusland
Posts: 6,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonfiction View Post
Aren't most of these gallerias rather than arcades? I can see why they wouldn't have worked and the ones I've seen on Robson don't look all that welcoming.

An arcade though - an actual passage way with a beginning and an end, covered with shops lining them - I could totally see that working in Vancouver.

Just as an example, here's a picture of one in my home city of Cardiff. It links two busy streets so tends to feed them rather than suck away street life.
Yeah, they're mostly gallerias. In addition, they're dark and low and not built well at all.

Now, if you widen Robson's sidewalks (removing parking on one side), and throw in a couple of arches above...

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 1:14 AM
SpikePhanta SpikePhanta is offline
Vancouverite
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,483
Today it was raining and I was walking in the Collingwood area along Kingsway and the amount of people walking around surprised me, sidewalks were quite busy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 1:28 AM
Yume-sama's Avatar
Yume-sama Yume-sama is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver / Calgary / Tokyo
Posts: 7,523
Seems to me the thought of covering up any of Robson St. would cause seizures in more than a few people in the city No buildings are allowed to even cast a *shadow* on Robson St. for blocks and blocks (notice how there is no tall buildings in that long stretch). I do say, though, we get so little sun, the thought of creating more shade is a bit silly

Robson St. is quite cleverly designed already to deal with rain. You can pretty much walk the whole length without getting wet if you stay under the canopies.
__________________
Visit me on Flickr! Really! I'm lonely.
http://www.flickr.com/syume
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 1:33 AM
SpikePhanta SpikePhanta is offline
Vancouverite
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,483
^^ Yeah but inconsiderate people with umbrellas still walk under those canopies and many of those same people poke their fricking umbrellas in my eyes or near it. Is it that hard to move your umbrella while undercover? Jesus.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 1:37 AM
mezzanine's Avatar
mezzanine mezzanine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,998
a nice surprise streetscape-wise is the intersection at international village, Keefer and abbot. it can be packed well into the evening if the weather is good. I am unsure of any one factor - a lot of places in vancouver nowadays have a grocery store, starbucks and podium towers but this place has come a long way to surpass other areas (like the nestors at seymour, the urban fair on alberni and CH)

I suspect the size of car traffic flow, having a south-facing plaza, a diverse socioeconomic mix and a dearth of other places closeby to compete with it are factors.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 1:59 AM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 16,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
Why the hate for Arcades? For narrow streets (or perhaps converted alleys) they are brilliant.

What one has to remember, is that if we DON'T build these covered areas for shopping, we WILL have more and more people flocking to Pacific Centre Mall and Metrotown.

Some [urbanist] people here tend to be all about the "urban experience" but I keep seeing "suck it up", "buy an umbrella", "it's just water", "this is Vancouver" and "wear a hood" but fail to actually offer a way to make the outdoors more inviting in inclement weather.

The reality of this is that when you're shopping downtown in the rain you've got one hand holding your [paper] shopping bags, the other with a mobile phone/handbag/other utility in hand... and you've got no hands free for an umbrella... at least not for long periods of time.

How about this down Robson(Lyons, France):


Take out one lane of parking, widen the sidewalks and add a canopy. A two-story curved canopy would also work.
I agree 100% In Japan, even cities of only a couple hundred thousand would have several arcades for outdoor shopping, and the weather there is 10 times better than here. Of course Japan is also not afraid of layers and lights as well (again, also found in rather small cities, that are far smaller than Vancouver). And the outdoor urban experience is still unrivaled.
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/306346...h/29495547810/ and Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0...lhxXFxuAey_q6Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 2:38 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
loafing in lotusland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lotusland
Posts: 6,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
Seems to me the thought of covering up any of Robson St. would cause seizures in more than a few people in the city No buildings are allowed to even cast a *shadow* on Robson St. for blocks and blocks (notice how there is no tall buildings in that long stretch). I do say, though, we get so little sun, the thought of creating more shade is a bit silly

Robson St. is quite cleverly designed already to deal with rain. You can pretty much walk the whole length without getting wet if you stay under the canopies.
Most of the "sunshine" we get comes in the unpleasant liquid form. We get far more of that than the dry shiny kind.

As for Robson being cleverly designed... I don't know about that. Those canopies were put up out of necessity, and are far darker than any glass canopy would be. It's also not along the whole stretch of Robson. It could be done on two blocks.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 4:26 PM
cjohnny4's Avatar
cjohnny4 cjohnny4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 142
How about simply starting with some nice brick sidewalks all along Robson with maybe even some brick work in the streets as well? That would be a good start and it would go a long way in improving the street experience along Robson.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 4:36 PM
racc racc is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohnny4 View Post
How about simply starting with some nice brick sidewalks all along Robson with maybe even some brick work in the streets as well? That would be a good start and it would go a long way in improving the street experience along Robson.
Bricks are a horrible idea. People don't like to walk on them. They are also not great for people with carts, rolling luggage, walkers, etc. A much better option is smooth precision cut granite. It looks amazing and is very smooth. It is what they are using in all the new pedestrian streets in Spanish cities. There is actually a bit by Canada Place. it is too bad they didn't use it for all the pedestrian areas around there. Instead they cheaped out and used pavers that will look horrible after a few years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 6:07 PM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 16,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohnny4 View Post
How about simply starting with some nice brick sidewalks all along Robson with maybe even some brick work in the streets as well? That would be a good start and it would go a long way in improving the street experience along Robson.
As mentioned by racc bricks along Robson would be a terrible idea.

But, on the subject of bricks, it sure would be nice for the city to fix all the masonry work in Gastown.

Was just there two days ago and my god does the road look like shit, i hate how they keep patching up holes with globs of asphalt so the road, and even sidewalk in places, is now a terrible looking patchwork of bricks and crap.
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/306346...h/29495547810/ and Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0...lhxXFxuAey_q6Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted May 26, 2011, 6:25 PM
racc racc is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
As mentioned by racc bricks along Robson would be a terrible idea.

But, on the subject of bricks, it sure would be nice for the city to fix all the masonry work in Gastown.

Was just there two days ago and my god does the road look like shit, i hate how they keep patching up holes with globs of asphalt so the road, and even sidewalk in places, is now a terrible looking patchwork of bricks and crap.
A good start would be to get the traffic off of Water Street. It would be a great pedestrian street and the bricks would last a lot longer. They could also use real bricks instead of ugly concrete pavers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > General Discussion
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:01 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.