Houston now No. 5 in population, overtakes Philadelphia

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by novawolverine

I've never met a Long Islander from well into Suffolk County say they're from NYC.

It obviously depends on the context. If you're visiting Europe or something, you say the main city. If you're relatively local, you say the commonly identifiable geographic region.

So it would probably be Long Island anywhere in the Northeast, and possibly in much of the country, depending on context. It would be New York in more distant locations, where relatively few can place Long Island geographically. "We live near New York" would probably be the answer.

[nygirl1]

I like Houston....so....good for them

[babybackribs2314]

Originally Posted by isaidso

CMAs (Canada) and MSAs (USA) aren't comparable. Using the Greater Toronto Area isn't either. If Ontario were a US state, metropolitan Toronto would include Hamilton and Oshawa at the bare minimum. There is no break between Toronto, Oshawa, and Hamilton whatsoever. It's a continuous swath of city despite it being broken up into the 3 metropolitan areas. Once a CMA, always a CMA even if they grow to meet each other. That's how Statistics Canada does it so that data is comparable over time.

Toronto 2011
Toronto CMA: 5,838,800
Oshawa CMA: 370,800
Hamilton CMA: 750,200
TOTAL: 6,959,800

If one used US CSA defintions, the Toronto population would include a host of other satellite cities bringing the total to 8,759,312. New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago are the only US metropolitan areas larger than Toronto by both MSA and CSA definitions.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198203
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horseshoe

If Texas were a Canadian province, Statistics Canada would list DFW as the Dallas CMA and the Ft. Worth CMA rather than combining them together.

That's also about the same size as Washington-Baltimore, although DC would overtake Toronto next year if this year's estimates are extrapolated. With the 2011 estimates, DC's CSA is now ~8.72 million, and it grew by over 140k in the past year.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by babybackribs2314

That's also about the same size as Washington-Baltimore, although DC would overtake Toronto next year if this year's estimates are extrapolated. With the 2011 estimates, DC's CSA is now ~8.72 million, and it grew by over 140k in the past year.

DC's CSA is on pace to overtake Chicago in 12 years.

So the top CSAs, with July 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011 growth:
New York...............22,214,083 (+103,210)
Los Angeles...........18,081,569 (+166,748)
Chicago.................9,729,825 (+32,251)
DC/Baltimore...........8,718,083 (+113,066)
Boston...................7,601,061 (+33,836)
San Francisco.........7,563,460 (+79,735)
Dallas/Fort Worth.....6,887,383 (+126,748)
Philadelphia.............6,562,287 (+21,365)
Houston.................6,191,434 (+110,113)
Atlanta..................5,712,148 (+75,921)
Miami (MSA)............5,670,125 (+92,045)
Detroit...................5,207,434 (-5,602)

[Zapatan]

Counting baltimore is a bit unfair, DC and Baltimore are two different cities, Chicago is one.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by isaidso

CMAs (Canada) and MSAs (USA) aren't comparable. Using the Greater Toronto Area isn't either. If Ontario were a US state, metropolitan Toronto would include Hamilton and Oshawa at the bare minimum. There is no break between Toronto, Oshawa, and Hamilton whatsoever. It's a continuous swath of city despite it being broken up into the 3 metropolitan areas.

Oh, don't think for a minute the US Census Bureau wouldn't draw an imaginary line through the middle of unbroken swathes of densely-populated areas and claim there was some sort of freestanding MSA on either side--just look at the Bureau's atomization of the Bay Area and greater LA into multiple "metropolitan areas." Given the Bureau's unpredictability, and how its standards don't work equally well in defining all areas, it is unreasonable to claim you know what the Census Bureau would do if it got its hands on Toronto.

[599GTO]

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker

It's not that what you're saying isn't partially true. It's that it is far from the whole picture, and that these issues are not exclusive to Houston. Houston is a highly diverse, eclectic and cosmopolitan city. I know that in your head you're under the impression that by taking hyperbolic jabs at the sunbelt you appear, somehow, enlightened and sophisticated. But the fact is that if you've got your blinders on so tightly that you can't even comprehend the possibility that there could be great things going on in a city as large as Houston, it is actually you who is the ignorant, blinded stereotype you likely assume populates it.

Sweetheart, I don't stereotype. I've been to every major city in the United States. I'm not a region booster or basher, and the notion that i'm biased towards certain regions in the USA is a bit far fetched. I like some cities and I dislike others, and that's that.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

Sweetheart, I don't stereotype. I've been to every major city in the United States. I'm not a region booster or basher, and the notion that i'm biased towards certain regions in the USA is a bit far fetched. I like some cities and I dislike others, and that's that. There are many "sunbelt" places I like.

this thread isn't about what you like or don't like. you offered your opinion where it wasn't wanted and derailed the conversation.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by JManc

ever been to boston? metro boston sprawls for miles in either direction without an ocean. so does new york, chicago, DC and yes, philly.

Right, and the metros sprawl to border other major metros and even completely overlap (as is the case with Philly and NYC), to the point that it is impossible to accurately determine where one ends and the other begins, at least not without arbitrarily making borders.

That was the point. This does not exist in Houston. You can drive 60+ miles north or west and still be officially in Houston metro, and still not be close to another major metro area. Now, take a drive across the river from the Philly Bucks County suburbs to Trenton NJ... and ta da! You're now in the NYC metro.

[Zapatan]

Hoston's metro extends 60 miles??! That's insane, not really in a good way, they really need to work on fighting urban sprawl.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Hoston's metro extends 60 miles??! That's insane, not really in a good way, they really need to work on fighting urban sprawl.

The main part of the metro is more like a 40 by 40 mile blob, with Galveston/Texas City being another 20 mile appendage to the southeast and tentacles of development going out along major roads even farther. It's the most extreme example, but the geography of the metro, combined with a string of exurbs like The Woodlands to the north, means that Interstate 45 goes on a long NW to SE diagonal through suburbs and city from its end in Galveston north for 92 miles. On the other hand, I-10 is like a belt cutting right across the middle of Houston west to east, and it's in developed areas from Katy to Baytown for "only" 40 miles or so.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

Sweetheart, I don't stereotype. I've been to every major city in the United States. I'm not a region booster or basher, and the notion that i'm biased towards certain regions in the USA is a bit far fetched. I like some cities and I dislike others, and that's that.

Pookie bear, I don't give a rats ass what your personal preferences are. That's your business. But if they have little basis in fact and your justifications are centered mostly around degrading entire metropolitan areas, then you should expect people to put you in your place. Now you can go back to rolling your eyes and ranting about how gross fat people are.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Right, and the metros sprawl to border other major metros and even completely overlap (as is the case with Philly and NYC), to the point that it is impossible to accurately determine where one ends and the other begins, at least not without arbitrarily making borders.

That was the point. This does not exist in Houston. You can drive 60+ miles north or west and still be officially in Houston metro, and still not be close to another major metro area. Now, take a drive across the river from the Philly Bucks County suburbs to Trenton NJ... and ta da! You're now in the NYC metro.

That is a good point. It doesn't really apply to New York, but at least in Boston's case, I'm not sure how much of that suburban development can really be considered 'Boston sprawl' since many of the cities and towns around Boston have been there as long, if not longer, than Boston has and have naturally grown along with it.

[Xing]

(general thought, not meant to apply to specific comments)

Criticism is meant to encourage people, places, and objects, to improve. I can only speak for myself when I say, I don't dislike Houston, but I think it really has to prove itself, because it's surpassing some seriously great cities. The defensive response to people's criticism reminds me of myself my first year in art school. By graduation I learned to take people's criticism. When I listened to the criticisms of my peers, my work improved. When I didn't, it was a gamble. I'm not saying doing what's in your heart is wrong, I'm saying discrediting every bit of criticism isn't wise .

This thread has, without intention, placed Houston flat on a table and spread its legs open for criticism.

[Shasta]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

It's so sad though. All those people all that growth yet it's still a wasteland.

When you think of Houston, you think ........[crickets]. It simply has no identity. And no, Montrose doesn't count as identity...it looked like a dollar store version of Brooklyn's Williamsburg or something. The only draw in Houston seems to be cheap real estate and a healthy job market.

Many people seem to love that exurban Houston lifestyle. Big cheap $250,000 McMansion in some treeless wasteland like Katy. Big garage to safely park your financed-to-the-hilt SUV. Enough space to waddle your wide load into the said giant SUV and into McDonalds drive thru, then off to a big box like Walmart (which is probably 100 feet from your McMansion due to lack of zoning) and then back home to the comfort of your McMansion. And "good schools" of course.

Let's hope Houston catches up on the culture/amenities front before the population growth stops (because it will stop -- look at NYC and LA's past where it seemed like their huge pop. explosions would never ever stop)

Actually, the above is more of a statement about you.

When I think of Houston, I think of things like The Port of Houston, the Texas Medical Center, Rice University, live oak-lined boulevards, the Menil Collection, the Williams Waterwall, the San Jacinto Monument (the one that recognizes the decisive battle which resulted in the USA's western border moving to the Pacific Ocean), Johnson's Bank of America Center, Pennzoil Place, the Alley Theatre, Jones Hall, the nations first PBS tv station (KUHF), the Livestock Show and Rodeo, the Art Car Parade, iFest, the beer can house and orange show, the night time gay pride parade and our out and proud lesbian mayor, Barbara Jordan, Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather, the creative program at the University of Houston, Hermann Park, Armond Bayou, Memorial Park, Discovery Green, Market Square, MD Anderson Cancer Center, the original Mama Ninfa's, the Alabama Ice House, Frenchy's Chicken, the Breakfast Klub, Tafia, the Hay Merchant, Poison Girl, Warehouse Live, Numbers (still rocking after all these years), the Chapel of St Basil at the University of St Thomas, Texas Southern's Ocean of Soul, the Rothko Chapel, William Ward Watkin's original building for the MFAH, the freaking Astrodome, NASA, Bernie's Burger Bus, Crawfish and Noodles, Kim Son, Mark's, Bombay Pizza Company, BB's Tex-Cajun Cafe, and yes, oil, gas, AND alternative energy.

Oh, and you know what opens to the public on April 12th? Yoshio Taniguchi's Asia Society of Texas House; just the 11th such center in the world.

At the end of the day though, I could give a rat's ass if you hate Houston because I absolutely LOVE this city, her people, the food, and the culture (which is wildly diverse, open, and constantly changing).

[Black Box]

Hurray Houston, you're number 5. Hurray Philadelphia, you're number 6.

[vjhe]

Originally Posted by Xing

(general thought, not meant to apply to specific comments)

Criticism is meant to encourage people, places, and objects, to improve. I can only speak for myself when I say, I don't dislike Houston, but I think it really has to prove itself, because it's surpassing some seriously great cities. The defensive response to people's criticism reminds me of myself my first year in art school. By graduation I learned to take people's criticism. When I listened to the criticisms of my peers, my work improved. When I didn't, it was a gamble. I'm not saying doing what's in your heart is wrong, I'm saying discrediting every bit of criticism isn't wise .

This thread has, without intention, placed Houston flat on a table and spread its legs open for criticism.

Yes Xing, however you have been here long enough to know that what goes on here at this site with regard to Houston is a bit beyond simply not being able to take constructive criticism. I have been a member here for a while ( I was here before the site was overhauled and we all had to re-register resulting in new joining dates) and it has basically been the same thing over all of these years. Whenever anything is posted that places Houston in a positive light, it has to be "proven" how that positive is illigitmate and undeserving. After a while, it really does get old.

Speaking as a Houston forumer who doesn't post much anymore, I'm sure I speak for most of us when I say we have become more defensive than when we first joined. Heck, I have even seen some former "haters" come to the city's defense from time to time due to the nature of the "constructive" criticism that is sometimes bestowed.

Any Houston forumer will be the first to tell you we want more rail and most other things that would please most people here. The city has been and is moving in those directions. But despite the city's strides over the years it just seem to not really register here.

I know the perception of Houston has been modified to a lot of forumers over the years, but at the same time, some things never change.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by fflint

Oh, don't think for a minute the US Census Bureau wouldn't draw an imaginary line through the middle of unbroken swathes of densely-populated areas and claim there was some sort of freestanding MSA on either side--just look at the Bureau's atomization of the Bay Area and greater LA into multiple "metropolitan areas." Given the Bureau's unpredictability, and how its standards don't work equally well in defining all areas, it is unreasonable to claim you know what the Census Bureau would do if it got its hands on Toronto.

The point is if DFW is one metro, so is the GTAH. The 2nd point was that one can't look at CMAs and compare them to MSAs. I was responding to someone who argued that DFW was slightly larger than the GTA. You have to include Hamilton if Dallas is including Ft. Worth.

[JoninATX]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

It's so sad though. All those people all that growth yet it's still a wasteland.

When you think of Houston, you think ........[crickets]. It simply has no identity. And no, Montrose doesn't count as identity...it looked like a dollar store version of Brooklyn's Williamsburg or something. The only draw in Houston seems to be cheap real estate and a healthy job market.

Many people seem to love that exurban Houston lifestyle. Big cheap $250,000 McMansion in some treeless wasteland like Katy. Big garage to safely park your financed-to-the-hilt SUV. Enough space to waddle your wide load into the said giant SUV and into McDonalds drive thru, then off to a big box like Walmart (which is probably 100 feet from your McMansion due to lack of zoning) and then back home to the comfort of your McMansion. And "good schools" of course.

Let's hope Houston catches up on the culture/amenities front before the population growth stops (because it will stop -- look at NYC and LA's past where it seemed like their huge pop. explosions would never ever stop)

Seriously? Really!!

[Double L]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

It's so sad though. All those people all that growth yet it's still a wasteland.

When you think of Houston, you think ........[crickets]. It simply has no identity. And no, Montrose doesn't count as identity...it looked like a dollar store version of Brooklyn's Williamsburg or something. The only draw in Houston seems to be cheap real estate and a healthy job market.

Many people seem to love that exurban Houston lifestyle. Big cheap $250,000 McMansion in some treeless wasteland like Katy. Big garage to safely park your financed-to-the-hilt SUV. Enough space to waddle your wide load into the said giant SUV and into McDonalds drive thru, then off to a big box like Walmart (which is probably 100 feet from your McMansion due to lack of zoning) and then back home to the comfort of your McMansion. And "good schools" of course.

Let's hope Houston catches up on the culture/amenities front before the population growth stops (because it will stop -- look at NYC and LA's past where it seemed like their huge pop. explosions would never ever stop)

I would think of Houston's identity as being very much pro-business, progressive, wanting to be a big city, big city minded, caring, kind hearted people, laid back.