PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[apetrella802]

in addition to the paul goldberger review here are two more from wash post and la times. Paul goldberger and the wash post are very positive about the new building and how we will experience the art in the new building. the la times has always been very negative about everything related to the move and new building and how the art will be experienced, could there be a little envy going on here.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/entert...U_story_1.html


http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,7889632.story

[montréaliste]

Man, those PHA housing developments would double nicely as Purdue chicken coops. Awful stuff.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Man, those PHA housing developments would double nicely as Purdue chicken coops. Awful stuff.

That's probably the best looking PHA housing ever done. You don't want to think about the bad stuff.

My biggest beef with most of the new row housing in Philly, public or otherwise, is that is seems really cheaply built with plywood framing sheathed with insulation and and stucco or a single layer of brick on the front facade. Unlike the old rowhouses, the floor joists are supported by the wood frame rather than masonry (i.e., the brick is essentially an aesthetic, not structural element). Few new row homes actually feature masonry structural walls anymore.

Often, the facades of the bay windows are super cheap plywood construction that starts bubbling, warping, buckling, and splitting within months of completion. It's embarrassing this kind of junk is even permitted.

Yet such houses often sell for $450K - $700K in the hotter neighborhoods.

It's hard to imagine this crap aging nearly as well as many of the 100+ year old masonry-walled row houses in the city.

Is new row house construction in Montreal high quality?

[McBane]

Houses in Philly are cheaply built due to the high cost of labor, which forces developers to cut costs elsewhere (cheap materials). I'm not trying to open a discussion on the unions. But the fact is, most of Philly's older buildings and rowhomes were built during a time when laborers were paid peanuts. Plus, there are an assortment of regulations, the endless charade of approvals needed (L&I, zoning, historical, ZBA, city planning commission, etc.), and constant legal bickering with NIMBYs, all of which drives up costs significantly.

A complete 180 is going in Dubai - one reason they can build what they build is because the workers there are a small step above slave labor, an autocratic government, and almost no government regulations.

(as an aside, neither the Philly or Dubai models are perfect, but a sensible middle ground would be ideal)

I just wish that developers in Philly would understand that under the economic constraints, trying build homes that mimic the past just doesn't work. Moreover, Philly has waaaaaaaaay too many examples of the real deal, old style buildings, so cheap imitators are easily spotted and almost always look foolish.

Developers would be much better off going modern, even in staid Old City and Society Hill. NoLibs is a great example of how mixing traditional and modern styles can create a dynamic urban environment.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by McBane

Plus, there are an assortment of regulations, the endless charade of approvals needed (L&I, zoning, historical, ZBA, city planning commission, etc.), and constant legal bickering with NIMBYs, all of which drives up costs significantly.

This is what adds a majority of costs. Labor for row houses and smaller developments is rarely ever done by union workers. If you believe developers are not making large profits off of these buildings you are kidding yourself.

And to comment on the cost of union labor in Philly. The wage rate in Philly is significantly lower then that of NYC and North Jersey. It somewhat boggles my mind that the first thing people blame is the workers when it comes to lack of development. Do you guys really believe that the big office/residential projects that were put up in the suburbs over the past 40 years used no union labor?

[McBane]

My point wasn't that Philly has an especially high labor rate or that unions are to blame for shoddy designs.

My point was that today, the cost of labor is high and added costs (regulations, hearings, lawyers, etc.) that weren't around a hundred years ago make it impossible for developers to replicate the old world craftmanship that existed back in the day, so they should embrace modern designs that are more harmonious with these limitations.

In the absence of high labor and regulation costs, developers can sink money into top notch designs and expensive materials, as evidenced by Dubai today and Philadelphia pre-1940's. With the way they pay workers in Dubai, I'd guess that they could replicate City Hall or the Wannamaker building down to the smallest detail and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Here - it's cost prohibitive.

I'm not advocating that we pay construction workers minimum wage and we throw out all zoning and planning regulations just so we can get beautiful buildings again.

[Glazierman]

I was the Glazier foreman for this project and thought I would share some pictures I took early on May 8th. LED strips are on the top surface of the extended horizontals; makes for some dramatic effects.

The photo of the entire project was taken from a boom lift over Broad Street at 3:30AM LOL. I wanted at least one photo the gen-pop wasn't capable of shooting . . .

[summersm343]

Thanks for this... great photos! The lighting looks awesome. I saw it lit up the other night. Good work!

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

That's probably the best looking PHA housing ever done. You don't want to think about the bad stuff.

My biggest beef with most of the new row housing in Philly, public or otherwise, is that is seems really cheaply built with plywood framing sheathed with insulation and and stucco or a single layer of brick on the front facade. Unlike the old rowhouses, the floor joists are supported by the wood frame rather than masonry (i.e., the brick is essentially an aesthetic, not structural element). Few new row homes actually feature masonry structural walls anymore.

Often, the facades of the bay windows are super cheap plywood construction that starts bubbling, warping, buckling, and splitting within months of completion. It's embarrassing this kind of junk is even permitted.

Yet such houses often sell for $450K - $700K in the hotter neighborhoods.

It's hard to imagine this crap aging nearly as well as many of the 100+ year old masonry-walled row houses in the city.

Is new row house construction in Montreal high quality?

It's mainly hit or miss. There is some nice stuff, it tends to be subdued in a good way, brick is still a big thing, but now it tends to be the popular charcoal colored mixed with yellow-orange-sienna colored bricks.
As far as student housing it runs the gamut, and there is one phase of
construction for a residence in the ETS school vicinity. This is an engineering and tech college in the lower part of downtown where a new neighborhood is being built on the remains of Griffintown. The building is really as bad as the one we were discussing in Philly.

[montréaliste]

Great job of glazing and shooting Glazierman. Nice building too.

[apetrella802]

I made a second visit to the Barnes on Monday, some additional insights



You enter the large lobby after passing through a small ante room. This time I experienced the lobby in a dramatically more intense manner. It appeared vast and I had the feeling of standing in a great space from antiquity. Like the hypostyle hall at karnak:



Standing in the lobby with the east to my back and looking west the the south wall was to my left. It is a large expanse of Jerusalem limestone with windows much like the outside wall facing the parkway. It appears as a Beaux Atrs facade of a large classical inspired building from the 18th or 17th c. Above my head was a vast luminous sky of etheral diffused light. The wall on my right(north wall) was also of Jerusalem limestone for 3/4th of the length of the wall. Here the limestone was chiseled with horizontal rows of short vertical cuts. From a distance it looks like a wall of an ancient temple with cuneiform writing. The first quarter of the north wall is where you enter into the lobby itself.



I did not have this insight the first visit. I think I know why. The first day was a reception and the lobby was full of people and music and I'm sure very distracting.



The only thing that I see that is a little less than perfect about this building(IMHO) is that from the parkway the "light box"

seems jarring and not in harmonmy with the overall massing of the building. Maybe my opinion will change over time.

Arthur J Petrella

The Olive Tree

http://www.windowview.org/hmny/secretplc/olivetree.html



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: apetrella802@comcast.net
To: "ron anderson" <rbanderson@pol.net>, "David Bender" <david@aiaphila.org>, "pixie biddle" <landmarksElderh@aol.com>, "margret carlin" <mkcarlin@verizon.net>, "ellen adams" <eradams134@comcast.net>, "Harrold Farrey" <hefarrey@comcast.net>, "barbara gast" <bgast@peak.org>, "greta greenberger" <greta.greenberger@phila.gov>, "ken hall" <JERZEYKEN@aol.com>, "Margaret Hallenbeck" <Margaret.Hallenbeck@ssa.gov>, "mary jane hamaker" <MaryHamaker8@gmail.com>, "joe haro" <jharonow@gmail.com>, "Hinde" <hindeka@verizon.net>, "sharon art jaffe" <as1441@aol.com>, "barry jeffries" <jeffries.bw@gmail.com>, "mary mitchell" <me_mitchell@hotmail.com>, "Milt Petersen" <miltonlp@hotmail.com>, "ellen prantle" <EPrantl@klingstubbins.com>, "Kathy Rodgers" <rodgk123@yahoo.com>, "robert rose" <rhrose@usa.net>, "Tom Runiewicz" <Tom.Runiewicz@globalinsight.com>, "alan ruscoe" <desmondo2@earthlink.net>, "tom" <Tomdkh@comcast.net>, "richard wennersten" <RLWenn@aol.com>, "ann warsing" <warsing17@verizon.net>, "Neuberger1" <Neuberger1@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 8:53:08 PM
Subject: Comments on our visit to the new Barnes Foundation


Today Suzan and I visited the new Barnes Foundation on the Parkway.



http://www.barnesfoundation.org/



The most stunning and amazing change from the old Barnes is the quality of the light, both natural and artificial! Every painting seemed to eminate light and the colors were rich and deep almost as if they were all recently cleaned(which they were not)



Although the interior spaces, i.e., lobby, restaurant, library, and galleries, are executed in a modern minimalist aesthetic, the effect is visually very satisfying. This is bacause all the materials are exspensive and richly detailed. e.g., Jerusalem limestone sometimes with a honed surface that shows a moteled surface with honey colored veining against a softer lighter brown background, and sometimes a uniform cream color with a surface that has been worked to create a beaded surface. The use of bronze entrance doors frames with glass covered with an African abstract design and Ipe Brazillian wood floors worked into a hairingbone pattered throught the galleries gives one a feeling of the highest quality workmanship.



Of course everything is designed to highlight the paintings themselves and this is done to a dramatic effect.



The forced path from 20th street to the lobby entrance removes you from the noise and movement of people and cars and carries you through a garden and helps create a contemplative mood before you enter the building.



The transition from very abstact design of the exterior to the slightly more detailed gallery space is not at all jarring but subtle and gradual.



I'm taking some guests back tomorrow so I'll see how these first impessions hold up on a second visit.



Arthur J Petrella

The Olive Tree

http://www.windowview.org/hmny/secretplc/olivetree.html

[volguus zildrohar]

Originally Posted by Glazierman

I was the Glazier foreman for this project and thought I would share some pictures I took early on May 8th. LED strips are on the top surface of the extended horizontals; makes for some dramatic effects.

The photo of the entire project was taken from a boom lift over Broad Street at 3:30AM LOL. I wanted at least one photo the gen-pop wasn't capable of shooting . . .

I've passed it at night and it does look great. Nice work there.

[TechTalkGuy]

Nice work with the LED strips!

[summersm343]

Update on the 12th and Arch Home2Suites Hotel


Article
http://planphilly.com/news/notebook/...erminal-market

[Marcu]

[delete]

[sharkfood]

Originally Posted by McBane

Houses in Philly are cheaply built due to the high cost of labor, which forces developers to cut costs elsewhere (cheap materials). I'm not trying to open a discussion on the unions. But the fact is, most of Philly's older buildings and rowhomes were built during a time when laborers were paid peanuts. Plus, there are an assortment of regulations, the endless charade of approvals needed (L&I, zoning, historical, ZBA, city planning commission, etc.), and constant legal bickering with NIMBYs, all of which drives up costs significantly.

A complete 180 is going in Dubai - one reason they can build what they build is because the workers there are a small step above slave labor, an autocratic government, and almost no government regulations.

(as an aside, neither the Philly or Dubai models are perfect, but a sensible middle ground would be ideal)

I just wish that developers in Philly would understand that under the economic constraints, trying build homes that mimic the past just doesn't work. Moreover, Philly has waaaaaaaaay too many examples of the real deal, old style buildings, so cheap imitators are easily spotted and almost always look foolish.

Developers would be much better off going modern, even in staid Old City and Society Hill. NoLibs is a great example of how mixing traditional and modern styles can create a dynamic urban environment.

Your typical rowhouse is built non-union. Even smaller apartment buildings 15 units +- are nonunion. The issue of cost applies only to larger developments and developments that receive public funding.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by sharkfood

Your typical rowhouse is built non-union. Even smaller apartment buildings 15 units +- are nonunion. The issue of cost applies only to larger developments and developments that receive public funding.

The labor cost in building attached single family housing is small percentage of costs. Legal, zoning approval, marketing, holding costs, closing costs and taxes will end up being about equal or more to what the labor is paid to put the house up. Then the developer still has to make their 20-40% return on investment yet people are blaming the guy getting 15-30 dollars an hour from the price they have to pay for a house

[Aaamazarite]

Some updates:

Singh Nanotech Center. I had a better angled pic but it came out blurry:



Perelman Medicine 2?:



CHoP construction with 3 tower cranes and one smaller one. Why do they need so many cranes for a five story building and parking garage?



crane town USA:



We got them low prices... cuz I CHoP 'em CHoP 'em.

[summersm343]

Thanks for the updates in UCity

Updates from today 6/26/2012

Arch Street Parking Garage
No facade on yet (sorry couldn't get a great pic)





Center City Home2Suites

[McBane]

Does Temple deserve its own thread in the General Development section?

Anyway, here is an article from City Paper focusing on the negatives of development around Temple. My take is that the neighborhood was a dump. Most of the residents don't pay city taxes and yet they are first in line to use city services. Those services don't pay for themselves. This kind of development puts money in the city's coffers that helps pay for these entitlement programs as well as police, libraries, rec centers, health centers, etc. If neighborhoods had to pay for their own city services (which I think is a great idea!), they'd be singing a different tune.

http://www.citypaper.net/cover_story...html?viewAll=y

Whatever little pity or credibility that the local residents had was pissed away after their absolutely ridiculous reaction to the proposed NID. That plan would have taxed landlords to clean up the neighborhood...and the residents rejected it! A truly special group of idiots.