AUSTIN | ABIA Updates

[ILUVSAT]

Originally Posted by texastarkus

...We (San Antonio) are building a new airport on top of the old and it will just take a little time to get it finished.
We have lived in the shadow of Austin for a long time and I guess the news is getting tired of it and is trying to fire a couple shots across the Austin bow.

(1) The work finishing up at San Antonio International Airport is more cosmetic than anything else. It will not increase capacity. In fact, I believe SAT has a total of only 24 jet bridges between its two current terminals (equal to AUS now). The next phase of expansion is not slated until nearly 2020/2025 (adding 5/6 gates in a new Terminal C's phase one and possibly two additional gates to Terminal A). None of these new gates (or old ones) seem to really be conducive to wide body jets.

And, on another note; currently, SAT's longest runway is a bit over 8,500 feet. Workable; but, not great.

(2) I believe it is the other way around...Austin has been in the shadow of its southern neighbor since its inception. It's like an older brother being jealous of a more successful younger brother. Austin is now being recognized both domestically and internationally for its hard work and the great things they have done and continue to strive toward.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

(2) I believe it is the other way around...Austin has been in the shadow of its southern neighbor since its inception. It's like an older brother being jealous of a more successful younger brother. Austin is now being recognized both domestically and internationally for its hard work and the great things they have done.

You hit the hammer right on the nail, excellent comment. I have had some friends that live in SA say the same thing.

Again this isn't a city versus argument. Fact is both cities are becoming more and more interlinked and each city has its unique and special qualities that together enhance the region we share. It's an asset and an important bond.

[Austin1971]

T

[Austin1971]

5

[JGFrisco]

2013 total passenger stats

DFW 51.5 million
Houston Bush 39.8
Houston Hobby 11.1
Austin 10.0
Dallas Love 8.5
San Antonio 8.2

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by JGFrisco

2013 total passenger stats

DFW 51.5 million
Houston Bush 39.8
Houston Hobby 11.1
Austin 10.0
Dallas Love 8.5
San Antonio 8.2

Once the Wright Amendment is gone, I'm sure Dallas Love will have much higher numbers, probably higher than Austin.

[Austin1971]

T

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by Austin1971

Talk floating around the port is that Southwest is going to move their operations/gates to the new east terminal when completed. They also plan to increase their gate total when the move occurs. Right now they currently lease gates 7 thru 12. We shall see......

Interesting. There's a PDF wandering around the web that had a report about floating hubs or alternative backup temporary hubs. Something about Southwest looking into having a floating hub incase Dallas Love had major delays for whatever reason like bad weather. At the time I ran across it I just skimmed over but I remember it mentioned ABIA as the most likely candidate for such a concept. It's not a bad idea, it ensures that connecting flights through the main hub can be simply re-routed to an airport that is not affected by bad weather lessening major delays or cancellations.

[austlar1]

SW plans for immediately after the Wright amendment expires include the addition of 15 non stop routes from Love Field. Hopefully AA will respond with more competitive fares out of DFW. I guess this will have some impact on Austin travelers. Traffic growth at DFW is likely to slow a bit as a result of the new Love Field flights. There will be a lot more noise (and plane spotting, if 737s are your thing) coming from inbound and outbound flights over Oak Lawn and the Park Cities. It amazes me that Dallas folks so willingly accept the noise pollution from all these flights. The same thing is true for San Diego. I guess convenience outweighs aesthetics in the long run.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...er-wright.html

[electricron]

Originally Posted by austlar1

SW plans for immediately after the Wright amendment expires include the addition of 15 non stop routes from Love Field. Hopefully AA will respond with more competitive fares out of DFW. I guess this will have some impact on Austin travelers. Traffic growth at DFW is likely to slow a bit as a result of the new Love Field flights. There will be a lot more noise (and plane spotting, if 737s are your thing) coming from inbound and outbound flights over Oak Lawn and the Park Cities. It amazes me that Dallas folks so willingly accept the noise pollution from all these flights. The same thing is true for San Diego. I guess convenience outweighs aesthetics in the long run.

Traffic will be limited at Love Field by limiting the gates at 20. Dallas was amongst the first cities requiring turbofans vs turbojets to reduce noise pollution.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by electricron

Traffic will be limited at Love Field by limiting the gates at 20. Dallas was amongst the first cities requiring turbofans vs turbojets to reduce noise pollution.

Is the 20 gate decision something set in stone and mandated by law? Can the law be changed? What I am really asking is whether or not Love Field can add gates somewhere down the line? I still remember the last days of the old Love Field when there were about 70 gates! The place was a real beehive of activity. A twenty gate maximum should keep passenger volume down quite a bit.

A few more questions for anybody who knows the answer: How many gates are there at Hobby; are there any restrictions on the number of flights or destinations out of Hobby; and why is passenger volume so low at Hobby?

About the noise around Love Field. I guess the planes are not that noisy anymore, but they are kind of relentless and certainly noticeable. Soon there will be a lot more of them. Are there restrictions on the hours of operation for flights using Love Field?

[the Genral]

Hobby has 26 gates. Last years passenger count was around 9 million vs IAH's approx. 40 million. I think several reasons factor into the passenger count, its proximity to IAH, shorter runways, longest 2 are 7600ft, its considered a secondary domestic airport vs intercontinental, and because of the shorter runways, larger, long haul aircraft would use IAH instead. So basically, IAH helps keep Hobby's passenger count down, similar to Chicago's Midway's 19 million passengers vs O'Hares 66 million.
I don't think there are any restrictions keeping more flights from Hobby, especially considering Southwest Airlines is building an international terminal and adding up to 5 more gates so they can begin serving Mexico, Central and South America beginning next year.

[the Genral]

Sorry, deleted duplicated post.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Is the 20 gate decision something set in stone and mandated by law? Can the law be changed? What I am really asking is whether or not Love Field can add gates somewhere down the line? I still remember the last days of the old Love Field when there were about 70 gates! The place was a real beehive of activity. A twenty gate maximum should keep passenger volume down quite a bit.

I'll admit I don't know the answer to that question about the number of gates being set in statue. It is set at 20 per the recent agreement involving many parties; Dallas, Fort Worth, SW and American Airlines, and others; which is legally binding to all parties. Which means another agreement in the future could change that number, but I not sure another agreement is possible considering the number of parties involved.
Love Field at one time had 32 gates. The city leaders are concerned about the surrounding neighborhoods, and I believe they have fully accepted the 20 gates limitation. There are valid reason why the city tried to close Love Field to commercial airlines when DFW opened, and why DFW was built in the first place.The city owns the airport, what they want is all there will be. The only reason there are any commercial flights at Love Field today is because the city lost the 1973 lawsuit. As long as it remains open for any flights, it remains open for ALL flights.
http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/pdf/...tAmendment.pdf

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by electricron

I'll admit I don't know the answer to that question about the number of gates being set in statue. It is set at 20 per the recent agreement involving many parties; Dallas, Fort Worth, SW and American Airlines, and others; which is legally binding to all parties. Which means another agreement in the future could change that number, but I not sure another agreement is possible considering the number of parties involved.
Love Field at one time had 32 gates. The city leaders are concerned about the surrounding neighborhoods, and I believe they have fully accepted the 20 gates limitation. There are valid reason why the city tried to close Love Field to commercial airlines when DFW opened, and why DFW was built in the first place.The city owns the airport, what they want is all there will be. The only reason there are any commercial flights at Love Field today is because the city lost the 1973 lawsuit. As long as it remains open for any flights, it remains open for ALL flights.
http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/pdf/...tAmendment.pdf

With regards to the number of gates at Love Field back in its heyday, this quote is from Wikipedia:

"1973 saw Love Field, which had more than 70 gates and saw frequent Boeing 747 service, reach record emplanements at 6,668,398 as the eighth busiest airport in the United States. On January 13, 1974 DFW Airport opened, ending most passenger service at Love Field."

I am native to the DFW area, and frequently flew out of Love Field as a youngster. I seem to remember Love Field continuing to add gates right up to the opening of DFW. At one point the Braniff concourse seemed to extend halfway to the airport entrance along the original runway and taxiway. They even had some kind of elevated tram operating along the length of that concourse. Seems interesting that today in Austin we are handling 3,000,000 more passengers than Love Field was handling in 1970 and doing it with about a third of the number of gates.

Meanwhile, I suspect the city of Dallas today (as opposed to 1973) is quite pleased that Love Field is in business. It is a moneymaker for the city. If neighborhood opposition to expansion of gates could be nullified, I imagine the city would be happy to try increase capacity.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by austlar1

With regards to the number of gates at Love Field back in its heyday, this quote is from Wikipedia:

"1973 saw Love Field, which had more than 70 gates and saw frequent Boeing 747 service, reach record emplanements at 6,668,398 as the eighth busiest airport in the United States. On January 13, 1974 DFW Airport opened, ending most passenger service at Love Field."

I am native to the DFW area, and frequently flew out of Love Field as a youngster. I seem to remember Love Field continuing to add gates right up to the opening of DFW. At one point the Braniff concourse seemed to extend halfway to the airport entrance along the original runway and taxiway. They even had some kind of elevated tram operating along the length of that concourse. Seems interesting that today in Austin we are handling 3,000,000 more passengers than Love Field was handling in 1970 and doing it with about a third of the number of gates.

Meanwhile, I suspect the city of Dallas today (as opposed to 1973) is quite pleased that Love Field is in business. It is a moneymaker for the city. If neighborhood opposition to expansion of gates could be nullified, I imagine the city would be happy to try increase capacity.

But that neighborhood opposition will never go away. Fort Worth will also never accept more than 20 gates at Love Field as long as they half own DFW Airport. There's more entities involved than Dallas and SW Airlines in the latest court settlement.
You're probably correct about the total number of gates from every terminal including gates without bridges, the 32 gates was the total gates with bridges from the remaining terminal prior to the latest renovations.

[LoneStarMike]

Originally Posted by austlar1

from Wikipedia:

"1973 saw Love Field, which had more than 70 gates and saw frequent Boeing 747 service, reach record emplanements at 6,668,398 as the eighth busiest airport in the United States.

[SNIP]

Seems interesting that today in Austin we are handling 3,000,000 more passengers than Love Field was handling in 1970 and doing it with about a third of the number of gates.

Just to clarify one point, that 1973 Dallas figure is for enplanements only (departing passengers) Austin enplanements for 2013 were 5,010,665. If we assume that Love Field had roughly the same amount of arriving passengers (deplanements) back in 1973, then Love Fields total passenger count back then would have been roughly 13.2 million - about 3 million more than Austin has today.

After the November 2013 totals came out, I thought we would be close to 10 million but still fall short. I'm glad I was wrong.

January and February are typically Austin's slowest months, but I flew out of Austin Jan. 22 (a Wednesday - typically one of the slower travel days of the week.) and the airport seemed busier than usual, although there were only 43 passengers on my flight to Tampa. When I came back a week later on Jan. 29, the flight from Tampa to Houston Hobby was full, but the connecting flight to Austin only had 58 passengers. Still, the terminal itself seemed busy for 10:00 a.m. on a Wednesday.

BTW, I noticed they're really making progress on the new garage, and the work being done at Gate 3 which will enable it to handle international flights looked to be just about done.

[LoneStarMike]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

There's a PDF wandering around the web that had a report about floating hubs or alternative backup temporary hubs. Something about Southwest looking into having a floating hub in case Dallas Love had major delays for whatever reason like bad weather. At the time I ran across it I just skimmed over but I remember it mentioned ABIA as the most likely candidate for such a concept.

Interesting. Is this the study you're talking about?

Evaluating the Feasibility of Reliever and Floating Hub Concepts

[Tyrone Shoes]

Originally Posted by LoneStarMike

Interesting. Is this the study you're talking about?

Evaluating the Feasibility of Reliever and Floating Hub Concepts

Interesting concept but the data is over twenty years old and needs to be updated. I wonder if anyone out there is looking for a good masters project.
Passenger and traffic at the Austin airport has outpaced every other airport in the Southwest Region. The terminal is almost if not at capacity and needs to be expanded. As for costs, would a single airline be willing to pay for gate expansion that would only be used three or four times a month. From this example. Would American Airline expect the city to chip in funds or even go in with another airline say Continental/United to handle their diversions from Houston. Would the additional gate space be made available for other airlines to use as needed or for night time parking.

[Jdawgboy]

Yes I'm sure that is it. I didn't even to bother to look at when it was published lol.