T'su Tina Vote

BFHeadstone · #1 Posted **Jun 30, 2009, 2:04 PM**

Today is the big day. Does anyone have any idea how it may play out?

Post any news in here

craner · #2 Posted **Jun 30, 2009, 6:48 PM**

I'm optimistic.

BFHeadstone · #3 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 12:52 AM**

Saw on Global that they may have some idea of the count by the late newss

srperrycgy · #4 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:02 AM**

61% No
39% Yes

(From Global)

ue · #5 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:03 AM**

What's actually happening there?

(sorry I'm out of the warp on the topic here)

Witty Nickname · #6 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:07 AM**

This really sucks.

frinkprof · #7 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:08 AM**

@EE:

The city made an offer to the T'suu Tina First Nation for the land needed for a large chunk of the SW portion of the ring road. Something like $240 million. The T'suu Tina band has voted it down, which means more negotiation.

srperrycgy · #8 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

What's actually happening there?

(sorry I'm out of the warp on the topic here)

SW Calgary Ring Road

The T'suu T'ina voted to reject the deal between the Nation and the Province that would have allowed the construction of the Ring Road through Nation Lands. Back to square one.

WeavedWeb · #9 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by frinkprof

@EE:

The city made an offer to the T'suu Tina First Nation for the land needed for a large chunk of the SW portion of the ring road. Something like $240 million. The T'suu Tina band has voted it down, which means more negotiation.

I don't think this means more negotiation at all. I think after 50 years, the book is closed and we are back to square one at finding a solution to the entire problem, be it other road improvements, transit improvements, or another solution. I can't see the T'suu Tina accepting another deal after another two or five or ten years of negotiation, it seems there is a strong majority against building the road through the lands. And quite frankly, it would probably be a waste of time to continue to negotiate when other solutions could be planned and eventually implemented in the meantime. Living in Evergreen, the SWRR through the lands would certainly have been convenient, but it is not the end of the world. I would rather see other roads in the area (ie, 22x, Anderson, 37 St. [Fish Creek to 22x], Macleod and/or 14 St) upgraded in the meantime. Glenmore improvements have also been held up for years because of a lack of final ring road design; improvements like the 37 St i/c should be able to proceed now because there isn't going to be a road through the lands in the near future. It is time for a new plan, a new solution, and most importantly, it is time to move on.

Stang · #10 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:46 AM**

I am actually a little surprised by the result of this vote. It seemed like that offer was very reasonable both financially and also in terms of the extra land.

I also think that this was the last chance to strike a deal, and with an overwhelming majority voting against it, it is time to move on. If this was a strategic move by the Tsuu T'ina, I think it will probably backfire. I don't see negotiations continuing as they have been going on for too long already, and I can't see the deal getting much sweeter no matter how much the province needs the land.

That being said, the city and province made some huge mistakes by building right up against the border of their land and not leaving a desirable path for such a road, but we're talking about mistakes that were made decades ago. Granted, there are other major obstacles - like a giant reservoir, the Weaslehead area, etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens now...

freeweed · #11 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 5:50 AM**

SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE.

And yes, it's time to say "fuck you" to the people who think they can hold out indefinitely for those few extra dollars. If they don't want to play, fine, we'll take our money elsewhere. Seriously, they were getting an incredible deal, tons of money, much more land in exchange, and wonderful opportunities to improve their economic prospects. This "let's drag this on for years longer to see if we can't squeeze just a few more bucks out of the deal" is crap. It's been going on for what, 10 or 20 years now?

A half billion (or whatever the figure was) could expropriate one HELL of a lot of houses to run a major road through on 37th. Or something similar. The city should be outlining plan B first thing Monday morning. Let's see how quickly the band comes back to the bargaining table if the city walks away completely.

WeavedWeb · #12 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE.

And yes, it's time to say "fuck you" to the people who think they can hold out indefinitely for those few extra dollars. If they don't want to play, fine, we'll take our money elsewhere. Seriously, they were getting an incredible deal, tons of money, much more land in exchange, and wonderful opportunities to improve their economic prospects. This "let's drag this on for years longer to see if we can't squeeze just a few more bucks out of the deal" is crap. It's been going on for what, 10 or 20 years now?

A half billion (or whatever the figure was) could expropriate one HELL of a lot of houses to run a major road through on 37th. Or something similar. The city should be outlining plan B first thing Monday morning. Let's see how quickly the band comes back to the bargaining table if the city walks away completely.

I think the city has walked away, judging from the Mayor's comments. The question is whether or not Steady Eddy will walk away, and my guess is that he goes back to the bargaining table. I certainly hope not, though.

Calgarian · #13 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:05 AM**

Why would they vote no? I really dislike the Tsu Tina nation, they are really out to lunch. Their reserve is dirt poor, so they turn down a big pile of cash and potential millions more in leases.

mersar · #14 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:14 AM**

Yeah, I'm surprised at this. I figured if it failed it would have been a 49-51 split or so. The comments from a few band members that they didn't believe they'd actually get the land that was part of the deal highlights the biggest obstacle though, being that a lot of them don't trust any level of government outside the band (and sometimes not even the band)

Calgarian · #15 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:17 AM**

They have really good reason to mistrust the Government, but they really screwed themselves here. Is there any way we can tunnel under their land with the $240mil?

You Need A Thneed · #16 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:18 AM**

37th Street Tunnel plans are probably being worked on already.

srperrycgy · #17 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:27 AM**

I'll give them some credit, they got a 78% voter turnout.

A tunnel? not likely for $240 million. A decent high bridge and road network serving it might work. Removing access to the casino would be good too.

mersar · #18 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:30 AM**

Guaranteed that if any 37th street route happens the casino will be punished greatly (imagine them having to build a full systems interchange at that corner... pushing any access to Glenmore or 37th a minimum of a half km away and probably entirely at their cost)

WeavedWeb · #19 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:35 AM**

Wasn't the casino approved by the province on the understanding that an agreement would be reached to build the ring road through the lands? Is there any recourse at all now that they didn't keep their end of the deal?

Calgarian · #20 Posted **Jul 1, 2009, 6:38 AM**

They would have to build the interchanges on rez land.