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  #6161  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Whooaa.... Timeout.

Should an ordinary citizen have an expectation of riding light rail without being physically or sexually assaulted? YES . EVERY . TIME.

The problem and risk of generalizations goes both ways. Assuming all people with long hair or who are black, homeless etc are by definition criminals is the definition of idiocy. But neither does it mean they're all saints.

Chris's 'entitlement' is that not only he but especially his students deserve a assault-free experience when he rides light rail. I certainly agree.

Btw, for the curious his webpage is HERE.
The entitlement he has is thinking LRT extensions should be cancelled because of his perceived lack of safety.

He has the option to ride it, a lot of people don't have options and depend on it.
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  #6162  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 9:14 PM
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  #6163  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 10:32 PM
azliam azliam is offline
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Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix View Post
Yes, it is.

I predict Lufthansa will re-evaluate whether or not to consider re-entry into the Phoenix market similar to how they just announced service to Austin, which subsequently resulted in Condor announcing that they would end service in S19.

I'm also excited about the announcement of 787-8 service between ORD and PHX beginning in December. I'm hoping to take advantage of that when visiting family during the holidays.

Last edited by azliam; Oct 10, 2018 at 1:34 AM.
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  #6164  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
His statement is correct only if one defines transit to include freeways. That's all the 1985 vote funded. To me, "transit" usually implies public transit, as opposed to "transportation," which includes roads. Maybe the author, you, and I are defining this word differently, but I'm more inclined to believe his memory of local history is faulty.
Apparently I felt compelled to show my ignorance (lack of knowledge).

Someone, I think it was muertecaza had indicated that the current iteration of the tax set aside like 1/3 for transit so I just decided to assume that the original version (partly due to Chris comment) also allocated some money for transit.

Curious then prior to 2006 how was metro transit funded? Did the cities involved just kick in a share?

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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
-- I used to respect Jim Waring, despite frequently disagreeing with him. When he crusades against rail, however, he becomes unhinged. Is it really appropriate for citizens who take the time to speak at a city council meeting to then have to endure a condescending rebuttal lecture from the dais? His comments about bike lanes were not only irrelevant but also nonsensical. He claims bike lanes are useless because no one is going to pedal all the way from his district to downtown.
Interesting... my 1st thoughts were largely neutral about Waring though I didn't have much to go on. This makes him sound like a crazyman. Bike lanes in North Phoenix amount painting a line a few feet from the curb on streets that can easily handle it. Ofc users aren't going downtown; who cares. Are they used? Yes, yes they are... but it's such a petty thing for him to concern himself with.

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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
-- Mayor Williams said something about Grand Canyon University "not wanting light rail," but I didn't hear any evidence of that. I thought one of the major reasons for the west Camelback alignment was to serve GCU and had read positive comments about the project from that institution's leadership.
I just drove that stretch a couple of weekends ago. I've never seen a stretch any more suitable for light rail than that. It was so obvious that street needed help, needed to be tamed and more accommodating.

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Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix View Post
Indeed that is good to hear.
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  #6165  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
-- Debra Stark really seemed to be the key influencer here. A lot of normally pro-transit council members supported her motion, resulting in a unanimous vote, because they seemed to be deferring to her judgment that the northeast Phoenix extension didn't make sense and probably would never happen. While I agree with her on that detail, I hope she's right about whatever compromise she envisions in terms of sacrificing that line but saving most of the others. I still fear the foot in the door.
I don't get it.

Any route to Paradise Valley was like out there, not on anybody's time radar, maybe 2035? How does money out that far help with an 'immediate' need for road maintenance?

If they supposedly need $1.6 billion for ketchup in five years (an arbitrary timeline) where is all that money (minus what they already have) going to come from? While they figure that out they should also think about moving ahead with necessary EIS steps towards the full ten miles of the Capitol-I-10 project.

Fast forward to 2021 when more copious amounts of transit funding may come available and with a high likelihood of a recession happening before 2025, it would be a masterstroke to be prepared to take advantage of both (speaking from experience).

While it has taken time and will take a lot more time, I'm VERY high on downtown Phoenix. All the neat stuff that has been happening over the last five years could be a mere drop-in-bucket to what might lie ahead over the next decade. By that point in time, revisiting the Paradise Valley route may by very attractive, make lots of sense; two dynamic areas connected to each other?
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  #6166  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Apparently I felt compelled to show my ignorance (lack of knowledge).

Someone, I think it was muertecaza had indicated that the current iteration of the tax set aside like 1/3 for transit so I just decided to assume that the original version (partly due to Chris comment) also allocated some money for transit.

Curious then prior to 2006 how was metro transit funded? Did the cities involved just kick in a share?

Here's my understanding:

In 1985, Maricopa County voters passed Proposition 300, which was exclusively for freeway construction.

In 2004, Maricopa County voters passed Proposition 400. It renewed the Proposition 300 tax, which was about to sunset, but also re-allocated funds so that about a third would go to transit.

Those taxes, often referred to as "regional funds," are only part of the picture, however. There are also funds at the city level:

In 2000, Phoenix voters approved a transit referendum. That victory had the immediate effect of expanding bus service and, coupled with a similar vote a few years earlier in Tempe, provided the impetus to build light rail.

In 2015, Phoenix voters approved a transit referendum that extended and increased the 2000 tax, resulting in even more bus improvements and the prospect of building more light rail lines.

Relating this to the "Fright Rail" piece, the author's claim that the 1985 vote led to today's light rail is not correct in terms of funding the specific mode of transit involved, but if his intent was to say that the 1985 vote accustomed local residents to paying a dedicated tax for transportation, then I guess it could be seen as a distant precursor to the city and county taxes now in place 33 years later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post

Any route to Paradise Valley was like out there, not on anybody's time radar, maybe 2035? How does money out that far help with an 'immediate' need for road maintenance?
It doesn't. That's why even after raiding rail, the council still has to borrow against future revenues for accelerated street maintenance.
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  #6167  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 4:28 PM
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Thanks for the great summary.

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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
It doesn't. That's why even after raiding rail, the council still has to borrow against future revenues for accelerated street maintenance.
The math concerns me.

Street Transportation Budgets for 2017-2018 and 2018-2019: https://www.phoenix.gov/budgetsite/b...et-2018-19.PDF
Quote:
Actual Estimate Budget
Operating Expense $83,214,000 ... $87,480,000

Source of Funds:
General $17,064,000 ... $17,286,000
Arizona Highway User Revenue $62,049,000 ... $66,785,000
City Improvement $382,000 ... $387,000
Capital Construction $129,000 ... $97,000
Federal and State Grants $20,000 ... $40,000
Other Restricted $3,570,000 ... $2,641,000
Transportation 2050 - - $244,000
Capital Funds: https://www.phoenix.gov/budgetsite/b...undsBudget.pdf
Quote:
STREET TRANSPORTATION AND DRAINAGE

$79,242,718
Capital Reserves, Development Impact Fees, Federal, State and
Other Participation Funds, General Obligation Bond Funds and
Nonprofit Corporation Bond Financing
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  #6168  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 4:44 PM
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This could get depressing

In 2015 Phoenix voters approved a seven-tenths percent sales tax for transportation. This included an extension of the existing four-tenths percent tax plus an additional three-tenths percent through 2050, IIRC.

Presumably, Phoenix has an existing road maintenance deficit of ~$1.6 billion. Let's say it's reasonable to use a ten year period to bring the road system up to snuff. That's the equivalent of an additional $160 million per year given that the existing budget has not been enough to prevent further deterioration.

If the existing four-tenths percent sales tax hasn't been enough to properly maintain roads then what's to say that the full seven-tenths percent T-2050 revenue would be adequate?

I'm sure this is inadequate analysis and 1st question would be has the current four-tenths percent tax been diverted for other needs and if so how does the city redirect it to transportation?
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  #6169  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 2:02 AM
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https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...009-story.html

Interesting article comparing Orlando’s Commuter Rail to our Light Rail.
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  #6170  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 4:46 AM
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Originally Posted by vwwolfe View Post
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...009-story.html

Interesting article comparing Orlando’s Commuter Rail to our Light Rail.
Its nice to see articles and hear comparisons about us that arent all negative.

I was in California with some friends in august, a bunch of people from San Francisco were there and it was one of the first times I had been around San Francisco folks that werent shitting on my hometown. It was kinda nice
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  #6171  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by vwwolfe View Post
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...009-story.html

Interesting article comparing Orlando’s Commuter Rail to our Light Rail.
Orlando is one of a handful of cities that have introduced commuter rail to the suburbs before implementing any sort of rail as part of their regular transit service within the central city. The two other examples I can think of right now are Austin and Albuquerque. Each has a single commuter line but no light rail. It's an unusual sequence of events that seems like putting the cart before the horse.
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  #6172  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwwolfe View Post
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...009-story.html

Interesting article comparing Orlando’s Commuter Rail to our Light Rail.
Quote:
Michelle Wagner Conniff of Portland visits Phoenix regularly and appreciates being able to ride Valley Metro from the airport to near her mother’s home.

“It’s still not as good as Portland’s, but we’ve had light rail for a long time,” she said.
Portland has often been considered a model for (light rail) transit and it definitely helped that they started back when it cost a song and the Feds paid as much as 85% of the cost.

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia Portland's 2017 weekday ridership per mile is 1,995 boardings while Valley Metro Rail has boardings of 1,859 so very close to Portland's. Phoenix has it's 26 miles while Portland has 60 miles of light rail. Btw, Denver in contrast has a weekday ridership of only 1,153 per mile.

IIRC, SunRail makes at least two urban stops but it hardly compares to what an urban line could have done.
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  #6173  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Orlando is one of a handful of cities that have introduced commuter rail to the suburbs before implementing any sort of rail as part of their regular transit service within the central city. The two other examples I can think of right now are Austin and Albuquerque. Each has a single commuter line but no light rail. It's an unusual sequence of events that seems like putting the cart before the horse.
Several cities or states have utilized existing freight lines to run heavy commuter rail between cities. It's cheap to do. The Rail Runner Express that runs between Albuquerque and Santa Fe was created and is run by the state of New Mexico. Tripadvisor likes it. Albuquerque couldn't possibly justify light rail but they do have the new ART, their bus rapid transit line.

Austin's Capital Metro is waaaay behind the eight-ball but has visions of a $10 billion BRT and light rail system. They did cringe when Nashville voters soundly defeated their plan. Haven't heard anything on their pending decisions to take to the voters. They do plan to rely heavily on Federal Grants (don't we all).
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  #6174  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 5:58 PM
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Valley Metro restoring regular service for five holidays
OCTOBER 10, 2018 BY KTAR.COM
Quote:
Valley Metro announced Monday that riders will be able to count on regular schedules for Veterans Day, the day after Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Martin Luther King Day and Presidents Day.

Sunday schedules were previously used on those days. The restored schedules include light rail, local buses, circulators and rural routes. Sunday hours will continue to be in effect for New Year’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day.
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  #6175  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 7:02 PM
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paid anti-rail petition circulators

An experience this morning has confirmed my fear that the anti-rail forces that surfaced during the South Central debate are using paid petition circulators. I encountered two of them at the Town & Country shopping center today. The first was too busy looking at his phone to notice me, even though I walked right by him twice while runnng errands. The second approached me and told me his first petition was about light rail. I never learned what other petitions he might have had with him.

He cleverly phrased his pitch in terms of letting the voters decide if they want to expand light rail. Some voters who are supportive or neutral towards light rail could be fooled by this approach if they are unaware of the nuances of the issue and recent events. They might sign without realizing that light rail expansion was already approved by the voters in 2015 and that any re-vote would only endanger those plans.

Thankfully, the circulators were chased away by security personnel for violating T&C’s policy against solicitation. The circulators were creative in trying to take advantage of shopping crowds on Trader Joe’s busiest day of the week but amateur enough to try to fly under the radar while petitioning on private property.

The circulator I spoke to refused to say if he was paid or not, but the unwillingness to answer that question seems like confirmation of my suspicions. Intersestingly, he described himself as being with “Four Lanes or No Train,” rather than the euphemistic “Building a Better Phoenix” name recently adopted by the anti-rail activists.
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