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  #441  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2013, 6:58 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is online now
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Not rushing to judgment on design as we haven't seen a render... but glad to see 38 floors and movement at green. Should we create a thread exclusively for this building/development?
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  #442  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2013, 7:49 PM
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Looks like there is a loopnet listing for a 475k sq ft commercial building around 30 stories called "Green Water office building". They put up a rendering that I have not seen before:

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite...LinkCode=20280
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  #443  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2013, 7:52 PM
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It's premium only. Do you mind posting the image here?
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  #444  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2013, 8:15 PM
zedaref zedaref is offline
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It's premium only. Do you mind posting the image here?
Google turned up this. Assuming it's the same. This would be for the block south of Ballet Austin at 2nd and San Antonio
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  #445  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2013, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
This isn't a rendering. It is a site plan. We don't yet know anything about the design, really, at all. Have some patience.
Can somebody please explain what the purpose of a site plan is, if not to communicate architectural elements of the proposed activity?
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  #446  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2013, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by zedaref View Post
Google turned up this. Assuming it's the same. This would be for the block south of Ballet Austin at 2nd and San Antonio
That's the rendering that's listed on Loopnet. Pretty bland except for the little rectangle jutting out at the top. But at least the lease listing indicates that this project is alive and possibly imminent
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  #447  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2013, 1:33 AM
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Originally Posted by _Matt View Post
Can somebody please explain what the purpose of a site plan is, if not to communicate architectural elements of the proposed activity?
Site plans give architectural rote, whereas renderings provide the aesthetic elements of a building. A good rule of thumb is to use the site plan documents for size and shape, whereas renderings for "look".
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  #448  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2013, 4:53 AM
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Originally Posted by zedaref View Post
Site plan popped-up for Block 1, which is the NW corner of Cesar Chavez and San Antonio and is listed as residential on redevelopment graphics, on the City's FTP Server.

Height is listed as 404' to the mechanical and 38 floors.

Page 17 (PDF)
That 404 foot height is on the 2nd Street side. The sea level elevation on 2nd Street is higher than the elevation on Cesar Chavez. The Cesar Chavez side of the property is 10 feet 9 inches lower. So standing on the Cesar Chavez side of the development, the tower appears to be nearly 11 feet taller than the 2nd Street side.

The woman I talked to with Gensler, the architect of the tower, told me that Block 1 would be 413 feet tall to the mechanical penthouse roof and 389 feet to the main roof with 38 floors. She said the Cesar Chavez side would have a higher height.

So using these elevations, the tower's height really should be 414 feet 9 inches tall. And rounding that up, you get 415 feet.

Also the elevation of the Green Water site slopes downward even more as you move west closer to Shoal Creek. The Block 185 residential tower in Green immediately to the west of Block 1 will actually have an extra floor because the elevation is lower. That tower will have 39 floors.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Jul 16, 2013 at 5:06 AM.
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  #449  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2013, 5:01 AM
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Can somebody please explain what the purpose of a site plan is, if not to communicate architectural elements of the proposed activity?
It is meant as a blueprint to map the technical aspects of a project. It's more for the engineering/planning geeks than anyone else.
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  #450  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2013, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by _Matt View Post
Can somebody please explain what the purpose of a site plan is, if not to communicate architectural elements of the proposed activity?
Renderings are concepts, prepared by the architect prior to actually designing the specs of the building. Used to market the concept to investors before the developer spends a bunch of money on engineering, mechanical and architectural design, which is very expensive and time consuming. Once you have your funding, the site plans are developed that show where the plumbing will go, the structural support, the ground work, the electrical, the site layout, road improvements, etc. and the black and white drawingings of the buildings that are included in the site plans are actually called elevations (see KevinfromTexas's post above) that have all the specs for the building. Site plans are what the city approves or rejects. Renderings are just for marketing. Also, renderings are generally done in color and elevations are black and white.
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  #451  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AusTxDevelopment View Post
Renderings are concepts, prepared by the architect prior to actually designing the specs of the building. Used to market the concept to investors before the developer spends a bunch of money on engineering, mechanical and architectural design, which is very expensive and time consuming. Once you have your funding, the site plans are developed that show where the plumbing will go, the structural support, the ground work, the electrical, the site layout, road improvements, etc. and the black and white drawingings of the buildings that are included in the site plans are actually called elevations (see KevinfromTexas's post above) that have all the specs for the building. Site plans are what the city approves or rejects. Renderings are just for marketing. Also, renderings are generally done in color and elevations are black and white.
Yeah, good one!

.... and if I may add a layer. After the building is at this point, depending on the project, the Renderings will be updated for the purposes of continued marketing and/or generating interest. The Marriott is a perfect example. The updated Renderings are actually posted on the fence around the construction site.

So when you look at the elevations above, you are seeing the design of the building in black and white without a "3D" or color effect. BUT the "outline" of all the architectural elements are there.
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  #452  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2013, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
That 404 foot height is on the 2nd Street side. The sea level elevation on 2nd Street is higher than the elevation on Cesar Chavez. The Cesar Chavez side of the property is 10 feet 9 inches lower. So standing on the Cesar Chavez side of the development, the tower appears to be nearly 11 feet taller than the 2nd Street side.
I wasn't sure what was used for "official" height purposes, so I went with the conservative number. What does the city use in cases of there being a height restriction? I think I've read somewhere on here that it's to the top of the actual roof, not the mechanical, but is it from the lowest or highest ground elevation?
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  #453  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2013, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zedaref View Post
I wasn't sure what was used for "official" height purposes, so I went with the conservative number. What does the city use in cases of there being a height restriction? I think I've read somewhere on here that it's to the top of the actual roof, not the mechanical, but is it from the lowest or highest ground elevation?
I haven't read it all, but below is a link to the Downtown Development & Capital View Corridor report from the City of Austin (click the link to download the PDF) which explains everything you want to know about the CVC.

http://icma.org/en/icma/knowledge_ne...View_Corridors
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  #454  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2013, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AusTxDevelopment View Post
I haven't read it all, but below is a link to the Downtown Development & Capital View Corridor report from the City of Austin (click the link to download the PDF) which explains everything you want to know about the CVC.

http://icma.org/en/icma/knowledge_ne...View_Corridors
My question wasn't about CVCs, but height restrictions. Say a building were proposed on a piece of land with similar grading as Block 1 but in an area restricted to 60-foot tall buildings due to a neighborhood plan or whatever. Would the city measure the height from the "2nd Street side" or from the "Cesar Chavez side" which is 10 feet lower in elevation.
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  #455  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2013, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zedaref View Post
My question wasn't about CVCs, but height restrictions. Say a building were proposed on a piece of land with similar grading as Block 1 but in an area restricted to 60-foot tall buildings due to a neighborhood plan or whatever. Would the city measure the height from the "2nd Street side" or from the "Cesar Chavez side" which is 10 feet lower in elevation.
Oops. Sorry. I thought you were talking about downtown. I have never seen any comprehensive Austin neighborhood height restriction guidelines so I can't answer that. I think it varies by neighborhood, but I could be way off. I'll ask an architect friend of mine to see if he knows. Any other knowledgeable forumers want to chime in? There is a lot of brain power concentrated in these forums.
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  #456  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2013, 7:54 AM
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So yet another building hovering around the 400 mark. Is it just me or is it that most of our taller projects except the Fairmont are stuck around the 400 foot mark, can't somebody at least push into the 500 foot area for a change. We are doomed to have a very flat skyline at this rate.
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  #457  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2013, 9:50 PM
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Personally I love buildings between the 400-500 range. I'd love to see some 800's go up, but the more 400' buildings the better IMO. It really does have a much bigger effect on the feel of walking around on the streets.

Like I walk around some downtowns that have many massive buildings, but not so many of the 400 range and it can feel empty in a very weird way. At least at the street. So many of the crazy tall ones tend to make dead spots on the streets.
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  #458  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2013, 3:42 AM
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Oh I'm not against having more 400 footers, especially after so many years with nothing really over 400 feet. I just would like to see more variation in building heights to give the skyline a more pronounced look. I can't wait till we see some 800 footers too.
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  #459  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2013, 4:52 AM
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400 to 500 footers are ok, as long as some of them are point towers like spring. They tend to at least look taller than step up towers or towers on top of pedestals. But what a great predicament to be in, too many mostly 400 footers going up.
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  #460  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2013, 2:20 PM
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What's the realistic timing of this thing breaking ground? Doesn't 2nd need to be extended first? The city is always behind schedule with their projects... If 2nd is necessary, why develop a schematic layout?
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