Denver Union Station & FasTracks

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

^If you know of a little rumor, it would be fortuitous for you to share. You know my history of acting on threats of violence and taking care of that fine coif of hair would be quite enjoyable.

NOOOO!!!! NOT THE HAIR!!!!



Aaron (Glowrock)

[BG918]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

The Broadway connector, grade seperated light rail line from the Broadway/1-25 LRT station to Civic Center Station, then on to Union Station, was proposed because they actually needed the capacity. With lines from 3 and soon to be 4 LRT lines all merging into the CPV line into Union Station, it was going to be over-capacity. The choice to solve this problem, by triple tracking the CPV LRT line, simply bought RTD some time, to address this with the next round of post-FasTracks projects (sometimes referred to as NexTracks).

As ridership grows, there will come a point where the need for additional capacity will outweigh the cost of constructing this Broadway Connector line. It will likely be all elevated south of Downtown and all subway through downtown to Union Station. It's only a few miles long, so it's nothing crazy, but elevated and subway construction would likely mean this will cost ~$300 million per mile on average.

In this scenario if the "subway" entrance is through Union Station itself (which would be awesome) then does it run underground down 17th and then reappear at-grade on Broadway? Would it then run two-way down Broadway or use a Broadway/Lincoln couplet? Sounds expensive..

[Wizened Variations]

Hindsight:

Mr. Anchutz WANTED quick ROI on his investiment in buying the Rio Grande Railroad so he partititioned and sold his holdings quick.

Had the Pepsi Center been built 50' to the south we could have had true through rail commuter to places like Colorado Springs. Perhaps intercity traffic to New Mexico with connections to Texas and the South.

Mr. Anchutz could care less about urban planning: he is a money man, who borrowed money with his vast collateral and wanted to pay off the note quick.

Simple as that.

After the Union Station property purchase by governmental entitites for about as much cash as Mr. Anchutz paid out of pocket to buy the Rio Grande railroad, the rapid build out of Pepsi Arena sealed the fate of through trains along the old right of way. (I remember how quick buildings were built east of Speer...a bit of collusion, perhaps?)

The property was balkanized by 2nd and 3rd buyers with a north south ROW for either buried light rail or bus station, depending on which consortium won. The property was sold, the lines drawn, and, the ROW which would have been ideal for subearial light rail, was turned into a bus station by the winning party.

As to the bus station:

The result is a long, thin, tubular station which will be a
curious mix of crowds and a long thin, rather foreboding place after rush hours.... Hence the attempt at natural lighting. Remember that no artistic rendering will show the bus tunnel with the 10,000 or 20,000 people per hour that will use it during rush hour. Think of it this way: imagine around 1/2 of Mile Hi Statium emptying out through a tunnel perhaps 25-30' wide Compound this by people waiting in the area for buses, forming winding lines which might be barriered off from the central walkway which might be 20 feet wide. To put that in perspective that is narrower than 3 sheets of 4x8 plywood set end to end is long. After dark, and, after crowds have left, the darkened sky lights will be supplanted by bright industrial lighting. I imagine the place will be a great place to get mugged at 12:00a some lonely morning.

It gets worse than that. If the reader believes as I do, that both the number and the percentage of metro Denver's population that will not be able to afford ANY car will rise, the numbers using the Bus, light rail, and, possibly the commuter train (US commuter trains tend to be ''aristocratic and light rail more 'proleteriat') could skyrocket. Imagine that numbers generated by'astute' thinkers in 1995 are off by 100% or more by 2025. So, instead of 10 to 20 thousand people per hour entering, leaving, walking through, or waiting for a bus during rush hour that the number doubles or even tripples. How about the entire Sports Authority Mile High Bronco Bowlen Statium using the facility per hour during rush hour. Talk about human sweat, stale perfume, and, body odour!

Of course, all these objections have been made. But the powers at be live in the strange disconnected world that they do, which is generally about 20 to 30 years behind the world imagined by the powerless intellegensia.

So, all this boils down to the eternal re-education of those who control as it almost always has been. Just wait for statements coming from politicains like "We learned from this that...", and "No one could have foreseen..." and "we have created someone used by the common people..." Actually, they could have cared less for intelligent disagreement, regarding tolerating such as one of the messy parts of doing business

Yet something is better than nothing....but, ah, what a special place DUS and environs could have been.

"Welcome to the real world...."

[SnyderBock]

Well, if your wild projects come true and ridership grows that rapidly, I'm sure RTD would then look at building a second downtown transit hub, probably at Civic Center Station, on the opposit end of downtown and 16th Street Mall from Union Station. Then perhaps expand sub-hubs at Broadway/I-25 Station just south of downtown and also the 38th/38th Street Station, just northeast of downtown. Not to mention, Denver International Airport transit hub has future capacity for one day potentially becoming a Reginal Commuter rail hub for the entire Front Range.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by BG918

In this scenario if the "subway" entrance is through Union Station itself (which would be awesome) then does it run underground down 17th and then reappear at-grade on Broadway? Would it then run two-way down Broadway or use a Broadway/Lincoln couplet? Sounds expensive..

There are many options which will be considered, when they address this. Elevated stretches would likely have to be modern structure, that are attractive and "light" looking, not the old El Train style elevated structures. Tubular steel construction is a possibility, as it would be more transparent and far less invasive. They can also run at-grade in dedicated ROW down Broadway, instead of any grade seperation. The other option is to cut and cover subway the entire length of the line.

Of course, it could even be constructed as just a streetcar line, instead of actual Light Rail. That would be the cheapest option, but it would require a transfer between Light Rail and Streetcar at Broadway/I-25 Station. So long as the streetcar ran high frequencies, this may not be a deal breaker. If people can step off the LRT and cross the platfor to the streetcar and not have to wait more than 2-3 minutes to board the streetcar (on average), it shouldn't hurt ridership numbers too much.

I'd actually be fine with the streetcar option, because for the price of a $300 million per mile elevated/subway LRT line, they could construct not only this line as streetcar, but 2-4 other downtown streetcar lines as well and pretty quickly have an extensive streetcar system hubbed at Civic Center Station. Though, all the streetcars converging on Civic center Station may require them to make Civic Center Station a subway streetcar station, and have all the converging streetcar lines go subway a few blocks away, as they aproach the station. This would require a ~$500 million investment on Civic Center Station, giving Denver a second major transit hub. A billion dollars could get three major streetcar lines and Civic Center Station constructed. That would be a pretty good bang for the buck.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

There are many options which will be considered, when they address this. Elevated stretches would likely have to be modern structure, that are attractive and "light" looking, not the old El Train style elevated structures.

Miami did a pretty good job by placing each track on a separate structure. It requires digging 2x as many foundations, but it allows a lot of light to reach the ground.

High: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=miami&...84.49,,0,-3.74

Low: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=miami&...218.52,,0,3.23

Of course, this is not a new idea.

[SnyderBock]

LRT Terminal:

http://www.earthcam.com/client/kiewit/?cam=pano

Bus Terminal (1st half):
The Bus Terminal is underground. This will be the hub for many regional bus routes, as well as the future BRT to Boulder and the 18th Street Downtown Circulator free shuttle bus. Skylights will provide light to the pedestrian concourse down the middle of the Bus Terminal Bays. Ground level will have a pedestrian mall, gardens, street and will be developed on both sides by office/residential/hotel mid-rises with ground floor retail.

http://www.earthcam.com/client/kiewit/?cam=pano

Bus Terminal (2nd half):
The 2nd half of the underground Bus Terminal, is now under construction. Once complete, the Commuter Rail Terminal will be constructed over it.

The Commuter Rail Terminal will have 8 platforms. 1 platform for East Line EMU, 1 platform for Gold Line EMU, one platform for North line EMU, one platform for Northwest Line EMU/DMU, one platform for AmTrak, One auxiliery platform for future AmTrak/Regional Rail and 2 auxiliery platforms for future RTD service capacity.

http://www.earthcam.com/client/kiewit/?cam=pano


Here is a photo taken by Ken Schroeppel, contributor to Denverinfill.com/blog:
This photo was posted on the latest DenverInfill Union Station Blog Update. Behind the photographer, is the Historic Denver Union Station building. Under construction, is the 2nd half of the Underground Bus Terminal. Just in front of those buildings in the background, is the LRT Terminal and 1st half of the Underground Bus Terminal.

www.denverinfill.com/blog

[SnyderBock]

Here is the APTA Public Transportation Ridership Report for 2011

Denver's Light Rail ridership is up to nearly 67,000 daily weekday riders. Early next year, Denver's West Corridor LRT line opens and it's projected to carry ~30,000 riders per day. If the other LRT lines boost their ridership to 70,000 passengers per weekday, by the end of 2013 and then the West Corridor LRT line hits that 30,000 daily weekday riders projection, Denver's total LRT system will be moving ~100,000 daily weeday passengers.

By January 2016, the East Line, Gold Line and short (7.5 mile) NW rail electrified segment EMU lines, will all be operational. These lines should have an initial daily weekday ridership of ~60,000 passengers. So Denver's RTD LRT+EMU lines should be moving ~160,000 daily weekday passengers, by 2016.

There will also be a Bus Rapid Transit line between Denver Union Station and Boulder, coming online in phases, between 2015 and 2020. This will be moving at least 20,000 daily weekday passengers by 2020. It's mass transit, not conventional bus or express bus service. Not sure how the APTA will count it. They will probably just throw it in with bus ridership, unfortunatly.

Ridership up on light rail, down on Denver buses

Denver Business Journal
Date: Monday, March 12, 2012, 7:52am MDT - Last Modified: Monday, March 12, 2012, 11:20am MDT
Kathleen Lavine | Denver Business Journal

Denver-area riders took to the Regional Transportation District's light-rail system in increasing numbers last year, according to a report released Monday by the American Public Transportation Association.

The Washington, D.C.-based group found a decrease in riders on RTD's buses.

Light-rail ridership was up 4.42 percent from 2010, to 20.7 million people. During the fourth quarter, ridership increased by 0.62 percent, to 5.1 million.

RTD's bus service attracted 61.2 million riders, a decrease of 1.87 percent from 2010. In the fourth quarter, ridership fell by 1.3 percent to 15.5 million

.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Denver's Light Rail ridership is up to nearly 67,000 daily weekday riders. Early next year, Denver's West Corridor LRT line opens and it's projected to carry ~30,000 riders per day.

Aw man, can't you guys give us at least one quarter to share roughly the same ridership numbers before you speed back ahead.

Just postpone opening that line until April 2013, OK? We'll have roughly the same amount of functioning light rail track as you guys by that point.

[SnyderBock]

That's awesome dude! I haven't checked into Salt Lake Cities LRT system very much. Let me Wiki it...

UTA Trax LRT:
- 35.3 mi - operational
- 6 mi - under construction (2013 - expected ridership gain?)
- 41.3 mi - total track (2013)
- 59,100 - daily weekday ridership (2011)

Denver's RTD LRT:
- 39.4 mi - operational
- 12.1 mi - under construction (2013 - expected ridership gain ~30,000/wkday)
- 51.5 mi - total track (2013)
- 66,900 - daily weekday ridership (2011)

Impressive, Salt Lake City opened up a lot of nice new LRT in 2011. It really made Salt Lake's system comparable to Denver's. Close in both track mileage and ridership. Denver's LRT system does move ~8,000 more weekday passenegers on ~4 more miles of track, than Salt Lake City, but Denver's metro area is easily twice as populated. So I'd say Utah's LRT is doing very well.

Beyond 2013, Denver has ~18 more miles of LRT planned to start construction around 2016 (pending approval of a funding boost this fall). Without more funding, they will still be constructed by 2035. With the funding boost, they will be completed between 2018-2022.

This will bring Denver's LRT system up to ~70 miles of track. Plus there are currently 40 miles of eletrified EMU track fully funded and currently under construction and on pace for a January 2016 opening and possily sooner (if ahead of schedule, as the contractor plans to shoot for).

If the funding increase is passed this fall, there will be another 24 miles of eletrified EMU track built (in addition to the 40 miles of EMU track under construction now) and operational by 2022, plus and extensive and highly advanced true BRT system in dedicated lanes and with train-like stations. This will be ~80 miles of BRT lines and it will cost $894.6 million to construct. It will be hubbed in Boulder and Denver, with US36 between Denver and Boulder serving as it's primary BRT spine. There will also be BRT lanes from Boulder to Longmont and from Longmont to Denver (via 287). Completion of this BRT system would be in 2020 or 2022 with the passage of additional funding. Without the additional funding, the BRT system would be scaled back to 18 miles at ~$250 million in cost and the additional 24 miles of EMU would not be completed until 2035 at the earliest.

With or without funding, ~41 miles of DMU from Denver to Boulder to Longmont, will be constructed in phases between 2030 and 2045. This is in addition, to everything above^

[s.p.hansen]

Well I'm rooting for you guys. Dallas massively upped their game and have been getting LRT numbers in the 80,000 neighborhood; I look forward to seeing you guys pull ahead.

Come early 2013 when all our light rail and commuter rail expansions conclude (our commuter rail will add about 44 miles), UTA is going to focus more on BRT and Streetcar lines. Right now we have a fairly small BRT line that does fairly well.

I'm excited for FasTracks and even more so to take the EMU from DIA to LoDo.

[SnyderBock]

I think everyone is hopeful that Denver will get it's Colfax Streetcar starter line built, sometime this decade. FasTacks provides the meas to get commuters into and out of downtown. The next step, will be a transit system for getting the residents who live in and around downtown, around Denver's urban core, and/or to get commuters coming into downtown, closer to their actual destinations. This will likely be accomplished with a combination of expanded free downtown shuttle busses which have low floors, double slidding doors for quick boarding and exisiting (aka just like the Free 16th Street Mall shuttle and the soon to be launched downtown circulator).

How much has all of Salt Lake City's Light Rail and Commuter Rail cost to construct?

Since 1994, when Denver opened it's first Light Rail line, there has been well over $1 billion spent on Light Rail, before FasTracks. FasTracks is adding in another $7.8 billion in Light Rail, EMUDMU and BRT construction. So we're looking at $9 billion of mass transit investments since 1994.

[SnyderBock]

Wong just posted this in the Mountain West Forum, very interesting. This has to do with the infill developments around Union Station.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Okay, here's a revised version of the 2012 Union Station Development Map showing U/C projects (in green with completion year), proposals slated to begin in 2012 (in orange), and proposals with a start-time post-2012 (in red):

Union Station 2012 Potential Development

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

I think everyone is hopeful that Denver will get it's Colfax Streetcar starter line built, sometime this decade. FasTacks provides the meas to get commuters into and out of downtown. The next step, will be a transit system for getting the residents who live in and around downtown, around Denver's urban core, and/or to get commuters coming into downtown, closer to their actual destinations. This will likely be accomplished with a combination of expanded free downtown shuttle busses which have low floors, double slidding doors for quick boarding and exisiting (aka just like the Free 16th Street Mall shuttle and the soon to be launched downtown circulator).

How much has all of Salt Lake City's Light Rail and Commuter Rail cost to construct?

Since 1994, when Denver opened it's first Light Rail line, there has been well over $1 billion spent on Light Rail, before FasTracks. FasTracks is adding in another $7.8 billion in Light Rail, EMUDMU and BRT construction. So we're looking at $9 billion of mass transit investments since 1994.

Haha, it took me a while to do it, but I located all the info. It looks like UTA's LRT, CR, BRT, and Streetcar projects put the Wasatch Front Metropolitan Area (2.2 million people) at about $3.5 billion in transit investments since 1997.

I think we're in the same boat as you guys; we're excited to have a better regional transit system, but more excited to focus on improving transit where people live in the city.


Lines Under Construction and Prices Will Likely Come in Lower

Sugar House Streetcar - Distance: 2 miles, Cost: 55.5 million
Airport Line LRT - Distance: 6 miles, Cost: 290 million
Draper Line LRT - Distance: 3.8 miles, Cost: 206 million
FrontRunner South CR - Distance 44 miles, Cost: 850 million

Total: $1,401,000,000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Completed Lines

Mid-Jordan Line LRT - Distance: 10.6 miles, Cost: 535 million
West Valley Line LRT - Distance: 5.1 miles, Cost: 370 million
Magna BRT - Distance: 1 mile, Cost: 8 million
FrontRunner North CR - Distance 38.15 miles, Cost: 611 million
Intermodel Hub Extension LRT - Distance 0.9 miles, Cost: unknown to me (probably slightly under 50 million).
Medical Center Extension LRT - Distance 1.5 miles, Cost: 89.4 million
University Line LRT - Distance 2.54 miles, Cost 118 million
Original Main Street Line LRT - Distance 15 miles, Cost 312 million

Total: $2,093,400,000

[SnyderBock]

More breaking news regarding FasTracks.

Kiewit makes unsolicited bid to build light rail along I-225
Denver Business Journal by Cathy Proctor, Reporter
Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 6:06pm MDT

Kiewit Infrastructure Co. has offered to build the FasTracks light rail extension along Interstate 225, the Regional Transportation District (RTD) said Tuesday.

RTD will review Kiewit’s “unsolicited bid” to determine if it could work, with a decision expected by the end of March, said RTD spokeswoman Pauletta Tonilas.

If Kiewit’s proposal passes that test, RTD then will ask for competing bids from other companies via a formal request for proposals by mid-summer, Tonilas said.

This is the second unsolicited proposal RTD has received from companies offering to build segments of FasTracks. The Colorado Department of Transportation (CDOT) also is reviewing an unsolicited bid from Parsons Corp. to fix traffic problems on Interstate 70 between C-470 and Eagle.

RTD received a proposal in September from North Metro Constructors, a team led by global engineering firm Fluor Corp. , based in Irving, Texas, and Balfour Beatty Rail Inc., a rail construction and maintenance company based in Atlanta. That team proposed building the $904 million North rail corridor.

After review, RTD decided it couldn’t move forward with the proposal.

Kiewit’s proposal tackles about nine miles of the I-225 rail line, which currently has a 10.5 mile gap between South Parker Road and Interstate 70 in Aurora. The route runs near the fast-growing Anschutz Medical Campus.

RTD has dedicated about $90 million to building another 1.5 miles of the line, between Parker Road and Ilif Avenue, Tonilas said...

Continue Reading Article Here

[DenverInfill]

FYI, the West line's estimated ridership at opening is 19,300. The 31,000 number is for the year 2025.

[Octavian]

They are putting the trees in the LRT plaza at DUS.

On the DUS webcam (http://www.earthcam.com/client/kiewit/), you can see the first evidence of the commuter and intercity rail terminal -- the "notches" in the concrete of the still under construction bus box. These notches are where track will eventually sit.

Also track installation in the West Corridor is complete.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

FYI, the West line's estimated ridership at opening is 19,300. The 31,000 number is for the year 2025.

ah, ok thanks for the clearification. That'll be solid ridership growth over its first 12 years of operation.

[SnyderBock]

Here are two new FasTracks maps, showing all the additional Bus Rapid Transit being added to the Northwest Metro area...

BRT system detailed map:
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...requencies.pdf

Complete FasTracks system map including newly added BRT routes:
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...hases1_2_3.pdf

[SnyderBock]

RTD FasTracks 2012 Annual Program Evaluation (APE) + Update Staff Recommendation Northwest Corridor:

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/u...s_03_20_12.pdf

This is a detailed report, well worth a close look.

Also, here's the latest article in the Denver Business Journal, regarding this new APE report and plan:
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...ill-go-to.html