Tsawwassen First Nation Updates

[AudiA3]

Geographically speaking, this area is too remote from the rest of Metro Vancouver

[Millennium2002]

The location of Tsawwassen Mills is no more remote than say Abbotsford's High Street is to Langley or the rest of the Vancouver region...

Heck, Tsawwassen already has bus service to/from the rest of the region vs Abbotsford, which requires a precisely-timed transfer between two distinct transit authorities...

Also, Target closing shop may or may not mean anything when it comes to supply vs demand for that particular retail store size... There are few chains that can fill up the space that Target had, and it'd be highly unusual for the spaces to be subdivided by mall management when the key driver of business still depends on the placement of large anchor shops.

[AForce]

I live pretty close to SFPR by Pattullo Bridge. This will be faster to get to than Metro. depends what kinds of shops they will have for it to be worth it

[GMasterAres]

It's not actually terribly remote though it may seem as though it is. With the SFPR, as was pointed out, it is less than 30 minutes away from Surrey Central, it is 15-20 minutes away from much of Richmond, heck it is about 15-20 minutes away from much of Southern Vancouver up to Oakridge.

I'd argue it would be quicker for someone near Oakridge to drive to the Walmart there than the one on Grandview during much of the day and when they replace the tunnel traffic likely will be less of an issue.

Not to mention you do have 35,000 people living right around there + development happening in the Southlands and TFN itself.

Then finally roughly 720,000 vehicles travelling through the Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal which is the busiest terminal in BC combined with the fact those living in Point Roberts will likely cross over to shop especially with the dollar the way it is today.

It's not actually a bad place regionally especially as South of Fraser grows now that he SFPR is open. If they put stores into the mall that aren't found in Morgan Crossing then you'll also attract those living in South Surrey to the mall I'm sure.

[GMasterAres]

Also a key driver is the TFN alone wants to add 10,000+ residents to their lands and development over the next 10-15 years. Combine that with Metro's push to have Tsawwassen and Ladner take on another 10-20,000 residents combined in that same time, and you have a fair population (60,000 people) base with through-traffic to support the mall.

Will it work in the end? Nobody know's for sure one way or the other and we all just have opinions. We'll have to see how it goes. A new bridge replacing the tunnel will definitely serve to make this area (and all of South Surrey) more accessible to Richmond and Southern Vancouver.

And if BC Ferries can ever figure out how to get their funding straight so as to encourage a sharper increase in traffic between Vancouver Island...

[officedweller]

Much more recent pic:


Tsawwassen Mills will feature 1.2 million square feet of retail space, including 16 anchor tenants. Photograph By submitted
http://www.delta-optimist.com/news/t...ning-1.1761575

[osirisboy]

Looks horrible!!!

[WarrenC12]

What a joke. Wait until we start missing ferries due to the traffic it creates.

If it makes it out of the ghost mall phase that is...

[Metro-One]

Probably the worst designed mall development this decade in the Lower mainland, and built overtop of some of the best farmland in the country...oh well...

[officedweller]

Well, you have to start somewhere -
Oakridge was first built in the 1950s(?) as a strip mall - so that's an evolution over 60 years.
Ditto for Brentwood and Lougheed evolving since the 1960s and 70s.

[Metro-One]

All those malls were not built on the best farmland in the country

Also, are you suggesting that every new project built has to go through a 60 year evolution process??

We can't just skip the first 60 years of mistakes?

Let me just say this, if you are going to defend this development, then don't do a 180 and bash the Highstreet Shopping Centre in Abbotsford (which was built on a much smaller lot, was not farmland before, is far better designed in regards to parking, etc...)

People are just giving this development a free pass on everything due to their bias that it is being developed by a native band.

This project wouldn't bother me if it was designed far better with a much smaller footprint and reserved some of the farmland it has eaten away.

[officedweller]

I've never bashed High Street.

and as for building on farmland - how about all of downtown Richmond?
Why don't "they" [property owners] abandon Richmond and build in on rock in North Vancouver, instead?
You can say that about any development (how about all the low rise condos close to downtown that'll stay for 50 years due to the strata ownership structure?)

If the TFN malls were built on a smaller footprint, the remainder lands wouldn't have been used for farming - the rest of the reserve lands are being developed for residential and light industrial uses (I don't think much if any is being kept as farmland).

If you look at development patterns, projects that are built later in an area's lifecycle will eventually be built denser than those at the start of the lifecycle. Look at Yaletown. The first projects built were 15-25 storeys. Now the projects around Richards and Pacific/Drake are all pushing 40 storeys. Arguably, allowing an area room to grow and to evolve will allow more density over time, rather than trying to guess an initial "build-out" density that may well be undersized.

So a vast parking lot may be a future site for intense densification in 30 years, versus a strata townhouse development if built today.
And nowadays, the strata ownership structure for condos will likely prevent redevelopment for many years.

[Metro-One]

Again, the footprint of downtown Richmond was established before the ALR was established. This development is not. I am highly critical of all new developments that take land away from the ALR now that we know how little great farmland we have left in this province. Thats why I disliked this entire deal from the beginning. I would have been much happier if they were given maybe half of the land that was transfered from the ALR and a shit load more money instead.

And for the record, yes, the existing sprawl in Richmond is annoying.

I also defend the lower design speeds of the SFPR because doing so made its footprint on the ALR much less.

PS, there are some I have seen on here bash Highstreet but turn a blind eye to this development.

[osirisboy]

Well I'm happy to bash this development.

Is the mall just a single floor? Could it not have been 2-3 floors with one or two parking garages, so its not so sprawling. Also they are planning on residential. That could've been better incorporated into the mall. Like what the rest of the malls are doing!

[officedweller]

The landlord is Ivanhoe Cambridge - also owner of...

Oakridge Centre
Richmond Centre
Guildford Town Centre

So it knows how to densify...

[red-paladin]

This development upsets me... I agree that it's a waste of prime farm land, and as American style, outer-suburban sprawly as possible.

[vanman]

I don't think this has been posted yet:



At least the clusters of SFHs seem fairly compact.

[mukmuk64]

Everything about this development is awful. Last century sprawl that you'd think would be completely discredited at this point.

[zmsmln]

deleted

[mukmuk64]

Golf's popularity is in free fall too. Everything about this feels to me like it'll end in disaster.