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  #121  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2017, 8:13 PM
mr.wheels mr.wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Thanks very much for the info!

Sounds like the labour for brick would offset the differences in materials cost somewhat, unless you included that in your cost estimate, but as you say there are also site considerations to take into account.

I now know more than I did when I woke up this morning. I appreciate your input.

Supply and Install
pre-cast - $16-20 sf
brick - $18-22
high density fibre cement - $30-35 sf
ACM - $35-40 sf
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  #122  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2017, 9:49 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by mr.wheels View Post
Supply and Install
pre-cast - $16-20 sf
brick - $18-22
high density fibre cement - $30-35 sf
ACM - $35-40 sf
Very interesting... Thanks!
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  #123  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 10:23 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by dkabalen View Post
I wouldn't know the exact cost for this particular project. However if you drive by the site, you can see that it was only 5 working days to install the complete precast on this site. No staging, no heating required. Again, on a tight site where space is limited it would be consideration.

Brick would require the staging, heating and time. . . Again you never know the exact period of time it would take, but think simple brick, you would be looking at a time period of at least 3 months to complete brick work.

At the same time, timeline is just one consideration, because in reality, the brick work on the outside wouldn't impact the interior work. If you went the brick route, you would be installing brick on a fully closed in building with windows and the veneer behind the brick. So it is not really a huge consideration when it comes to time. In theory, pre-cast takes longer to close the building in as you have to wait for the installation, size the windows, order them, and then wait for them to arrive and then install.

Price wise, using a basic, but quality brick, you are probably looking at pre-cast costing 25-30% more.

Hope this helps answer some questions and don't "quote" me on the price or process, but those are the difference that I am aware of.
My complaint with the precast panels is that it is a fake textured brick (concrete), instead of having real brick inlaid in the precast concrete. All the advantages of using precast panels would have been achieved with higher quality, more expensive precast panels. The precast panels with (real) inlaid brick is very commonly used; in my surrounding neighbourhood of the GTA it seems to be more common than (fake) textured brick panels.
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  #124  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 2:28 PM
dkabalen dkabalen is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
My complaint with the precast panels is that it is a fake textured brick (concrete), instead of having real brick inlaid in the precast concrete. All the advantages of using precast panels would have been achieved with higher quality, more expensive precast panels. The precast panels with (real) inlaid brick is very commonly used; in my surrounding neighbourhood of the GTA it seems to be more common than (fake) textured brick panels.
Yes, there certainly would be an option of having real brick inlaid in the precast. I also suspect that option would cost even more again. Lets see how this comes out once the windows and all are installed.
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  #125  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 4:56 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by dkabalen View Post
Yes, there certainly would be an option of having real brick inlaid in the precast. I also suspect that option would cost even more again. Lets see how this comes out once the windows and all are installed.
Compare the perimeter of Cornwallis Park as it was five years ago to what it will be five years from now. Half of it will have been replaced, and in every instance the replacement will be architecturally inferior to what was there before.

The disregard for aesthetics in this instance--regardless of whether it is in fact a pricier option--is really unfortunate. Shouldn't we be aiming to develop the edge of one of our grandest and most storied public spaces with a little bit more attention to detail?

Last edited by Drybrain; Feb 2, 2017 at 6:35 PM.
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  #126  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
The disregard for aesthetics in this instance--regardless of whether it is in fact a pricier option--is really unfortunate. Shouldn't we be aiming to develop the edge of one of our grandest and most stories public spaces with a little bit more attention to detail?
The developer definitely could have done better here, and it's disappointing that they didn't.

But it's also unfortunate how the municipality seems to be asleep at the wheel when it comes to the quality of materials used on the exterior of new buildings. This has been true for years and years. I remember when the Marriott hotel on Argyle Street was proposed, it was described as a "brick and sandstone" building that would resemble heritage buildings downtown. But it was cheaply built and is unattractive. I'm not sure municipal politicians and bureaucrats of the day were able to tell the difference, or if they ever showed up in person to look at it.
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  #127  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 8:21 PM
DT Hfx DT Hfx is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
The developer definitely could have done better here, and it's disappointing that they didn't.

But it's also unfortunate how the municipality seems to be asleep at the wheel when it comes to the quality of materials used on the exterior of new buildings. This has been true for years and years. I remember when the Marriott hotel on Argyle Street was proposed, it was described as a "brick and sandstone" building that would resemble heritage buildings downtown. But it was cheaply built and is unattractive. I'm not sure municipal politicians and bureaucrats of the day were able to tell the difference, or if they ever showed up in person to look at it.
I agree. If a developer is building in the downtown, his prime concern should be quality of materials and quality of design.

When the municipal election campaigners came to the door last year I suggested that it would be wise if Council switched its focus to quality instead of height when approving projects.

The Keep is an example of a local project more concerned with quality and which will be using precast with real brick.
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  #128  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2017, 4:14 PM
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  #129  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2017, 1:27 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post

One saving grace to the fake brick, textured precast panels is that it will be mostly glass and balconies along South Street and not too much of the textured precast panels. The rendering below was originally posted by someone123 from the report - http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/drc/...0814drc632.pdf. (it looks like there will be even more glass along South Street than in the rendering)

One thing I don't understand, is why under some windows along Hollis Street there is plain, flat precast concrete, and under other windows is textured precast concrete (referring to Jonovision's picture).

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  #130  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2017, 4:28 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I'm guessing that those will be covered by whatever they install for windows/glass above and below?
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  #131  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2017, 7:04 AM
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Another angle:


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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 5:19 PM
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Jonovision Jonovision is offline
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The first bit of glass has been installed.

20170307_143345 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20170307_143350 by Jonovision23, on Flickr
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 5:27 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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what I can't understand is the single mismatched panel size on the west-facing southwest corner?!?!
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 6:04 PM
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Yeah, it almost looks as though they accidentally installed the first floor panel on the second floor there? The panel height matches the size of the other ones on the first floor. I'm assuming this would have to be intentional and not accidental, though, given mounting brackets and whatnot.

ETA:
Still tremendously disappointed with the quality of the panels on this one. The more they add, the worse it looks. It's especially jarring when compared to the natural looking brick used the renderings which would have looked quite good.
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  #135  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 7:57 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
Yeah, it almost looks as though they accidentally installed the first floor panel on the second floor there? The panel height matches the size of the other ones on the first floor. I'm assuming this would have to be intentional and not accidental, though, given mounting brackets and whatnot.

ETA:
Still tremendously disappointed with the quality of the panels on this one. The more they add, the worse it looks. It's especially jarring when compared to the natural looking brick used the renderings which would have looked quite good.
I am disappointed also, but luckily there will be a lot of glass to distract from the cheap looking textured pre-cast panels.
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  #136  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
what I can't understand is the single mismatched panel size on the west-facing southwest corner?!?!
I think they did it based on what is the max panel size that can be shipped on the road and lifted by the crane. The last column of panels is probably off size to make up for a slope in finish grade at the foundation. I agree, the un-uniformity of the seams is a blight.
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  #137  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
what I can't understand is the single mismatched panel size on the west-facing southwest corner?!?!
Not just a size issue but it also looks to be a different color.
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  #138  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2017, 1:33 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I am disappointed also, but luckily there will be a lot of glass to distract from the cheap looking textured pre-cast panels.
Even the glass is a downgrade from the rendering though. The frame is much thicker and darker, plus it has that black panel on the bottom, which is not shown on the rendering.
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  #139  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 3:50 PM
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This one just keeps getting worse. They have a strange extruding wall on the Hollis facade that covers one side of the balcony.

20170314_131850 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20170314_131912 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20170314_131952_HDR by Jonovision23, on Flickr
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  #140  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 8:24 PM
DT Hfx DT Hfx is offline
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This one just keeps getting worse. They have a strange extruding wall on the Hollis facade that covers one side of the balcony.
I like the idea of that feature which attempts to integrate the balconies better with the main structure. The Vic is an example of a building where the balconies add to overall appeal but in many cases a straight line/row of projecting balconies make cheap buildings look cheaper.
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