HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1601  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:24 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Jos Connaissant
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 39,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The fact that the largest hockey market in the world only has one team, for starters. Just getting in the building requires a lot of money and either connections or great foresight (hitting refresh the moment ticketmaster releases a supply, months in advance of the game itself). That means a generation has grown up without seeing games live.

The NHL was content to let the Leafs franchise run itself into the ground while maintaining a lucrative monopoly for its corporate fanbase. Good for the short term, but over the long term people stop caring. It would not surprise me if by now the Raptors appealed to a broader segment of the population in and around the GTA.
It's not a huge stretch (arguably a truism) to say that at the very least the NHL has taken its Canadian fan base for granted.
__________________
I really should be getting paid for this.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1602  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:25 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I have no idea how this will go (and realize that basketball is seen as sexier than both hockey and baseball), but it's worth noting that the Blue Jays winning two World Series while the Leafs continued to suck still did not allow the Jays to overtake the Leafs as the most popular team.
It's a mighty crash when the wheels fall off the bandwagon as we saw with the Jays.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1603  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:26 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
It's a mighty crash when the wheels fall off the bandwagon as we saw with the Jays.
More of a whimper than anything.

Then again, give the people a taste of hope and they come rushing back.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1604  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:32 PM
Berklon's Avatar
Berklon Berklon is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hamilton (The Brooklyn of Canada)
Posts: 2,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
It's a mighty crash when the wheels fall off the bandwagon as we saw with the Jays.
And you bitch and moan about other people knocking your sport/league of choice, yet you come and say something like that.

At least there was a bandwagon to begin with. Are the Argos still around? I can't tell.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1605  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:33 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 23,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I have no idea how this will go (and realize that basketball is seen as sexier than both hockey and baseball), but it's worth noting that the Blue Jays winning two World Series while the Leafs continued to suck still did not allow the Jays to overtake the Leafs as the most popular team.
Baseball was certainly popular but it was never joined at the hip with youth culture the way basketball is today.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1606  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:37 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Jos Connaissant
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 39,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Baseball was certainly popular but it was never joined at the hip with youth culture the way basketball is today.
I agree that that's the wild card in all of this.
__________________
I really should be getting paid for this.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1607  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:37 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
And you bitch and moan about other people knocking your sport/league of choice, yet you come and say something like that.

At least there was a bandwagon to begin with. Are the Argos still around? I can't tell.
I certainly wasn't knocking the Jays (I'm a fan), I was knocking the vacuous people where you live. You didn't need to take the shot at the Argos/CFL, everybody knows you've always trolled that, it's no secret, you're doing it as we speak in the stadium thread.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1608  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:37 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 23,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
More of a whimper than anything.

Then again, give the people a taste of hope and they come rushing back.
Very true. From a Winnipeg perspective I was a little taken aback by the short-lived Jays mania that erupted in 2015 and lasted for a year or two beyond that. Even out here it really took off and you saw loads of people in Jays gear and heard them talking about the team. I think it was well beyond what we saw for the Raptors (although I recognize that is Winnipeg-specific).

Up until then I was starting to think that people around here were losing interest in baseball, but it didn't take a big spark to get people back into it.

Fans in Toronto are staying away from games because the Jays are crap this year, but I have no doubt they'll be back whenever the team heats up again. In some respects, the massive ticket price jumps that took place when the Jays were doing well serve as a bit of a repellent... paying 50 bucks a pop to watch an also ran play a meaningless game is not the most appealing sports proposition.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1609  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:46 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,546
The baseball season is too long and tedious for all but the largest historical markets to maintain such high support through mediocre years. I don't think many people would claim Toronto is a baseball town. Baseball's popularity is probably highest in rural Ontario, and you would see a lot more pilgrimages from Fergus or Acton, Ontario when the product on the field was worth the trip.

Basketball is likely here to stay with the city's demographics shifting more in favour of the Raptors every year. Selling out a 20,000 person arena through some down years isn't nearly as difficult a challenge either.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1610  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:51 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post

Fans in Toronto are staying away from games because the Jays are crap this year, but I have no doubt they'll be back whenever the team heats up again. In some respects, the massive ticket price jumps that took place when the Jays were doing well serve as a bit of a repellent... paying 50 bucks a pop to watch an also ran play a meaningless game is not the most appealing sports proposition.
The $5 beer helps. I've actually been to more games this year than the last two. going in 2015 and 2016 was crazy exciting for obvious reasons, but it was almost weird being completely invested in a baseball game from start to finish. Before that it was always a more casual experience on a sunny afternoon drinking with some friends. It's been kind of nice to go back to that and not really worry about what happens beyond hoping that Vladdy hits a HR.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1611  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:52 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
The baseball season is too long and tedious for all but the largest historical markets to maintain such high support through mediocre years. I don't think many people would claim Toronto is a baseball town. Baseball's popularity is probably highest in rural Ontario, and you would see a lot more pilgrimages from Fergus or Acton, Ontario when the product on the field was worth the trip.

Basketball is likely here to stay with the city's demographics shifting more in favour of the Raptors every year. Selling out a 20,000 person arena through some down years isn't nearly as difficult a challenge either.
Baseball does benefit from the lack of competition during the time of year.

Also, it's basically an excuse to go out and drink on an afternoon.

The bar of visible success is lower for the Raptors though. They only need to sell 20,000 seats 41 times in 8 months. To fill the Skydome requires 50,000+ seats 81 times in 6 months.

I don't see them 'competing' for audiences much.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1612  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:55 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
The $5 beer helps. I've actually been to more games this year than the last two. going in 2015 and 2016 was crazy exciting for obvious reasons, but it was almost weird being completely invested in a baseball game from start to finish. Before that it was always a more casual experience on a sunny afternoon drinking with some friends.
That's sad in a way, but I guess it is the new reality for pretty much most of sports. And to think I used to "score" ball games, man!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1613  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 4:48 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
I certainly wasn't knocking the Jays (I'm a fan), I was knocking the vacuous people where you live.

If wherever you live had more than one team, maybe then they'd have bandwagons too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I have no idea how this will go (and realize that basketball is seen as sexier than both hockey and baseball), but it's worth noting that the Blue Jays winning two World Series while the Leafs continued to suck still did not allow the Jays to overtake the Leafs as the most popular team.

The difference is that basketball (both domestically & globally) is an ascendant sport, while baseball and hockey are stagnating or declining in popularity. Regardless of the success of the Raptors, basketball is by far the #1 sport among the under 30 demographic in the GTA. As this group ages I don't think it'll be likely that they switch to a different favourite sport either. I guess what remains to be seen is if its current popularity will be maintained amongst the next generation of kids, or if they'll have something new.


(in b4 I'm accused of being a basketball fanboy who hates Canadian sports - these are just the facts)
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1614  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 4:53 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Jos Connaissant
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 39,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
If wherever you live had more than one team, maybe then they'd have bandwagons too.






The difference is that basketball (both domestically & globally) is an ascendant sport, while baseball and hockey are stagnating or declining in popularity. Regardless of the success of the Raptors, basketball is by far the #1 sport among the under 30 demographic in the GTA. As this group ages I don't think it'll be likely that they switch to a different favourite sport either. I guess what remains to be seen is if its current popularity will be maintained amongst the next generation of kids, or if they'll have something new.


(in b4 I'm accused of being a basketball fanboy who hates Canadian sports - these are just the facts)
I agree with these facts, though note that baseball and hockey weren't in decline when the Jays were hot.

Obviously as you say things are different now with basketball and due to other factors.
__________________
I really should be getting paid for this.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1615  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 5:04 PM
TorontoDrew's Avatar
TorontoDrew TorontoDrew is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
It's a mighty crash when the wheels fall off the bandwagon as we saw with the Jays.
The Raptors would sell out even when they had a bad team. It's a different beast the the MLB. This cities demographic is more of a Basketball city now so I don't think that's even a possibility for a few generations. Much like the Leafs, shitty or not they will still have huge support.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1616  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 5:05 PM
TorontoDrew's Avatar
TorontoDrew TorontoDrew is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
I certainly wasn't knocking the Jays (I'm a fan), I was knocking the vacuous people where you live. You didn't need to take the shot at the Argos/CFL, everybody knows you've always trolled that, it's no secret, you're doing it as we speak in the stadium thread.

What's a CFL?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1617  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 5:06 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
The Raptors would sell out even when they had a bad team. It's a different beast the the MLB. This cities demographic is more of a Basketball city now so I don't think that's even a possibility for a few generations. Much like the Leafs, shitty or not they will still have huge support.
I was thinking more of TV ratings and as much as some keep trying to deny their importance they're still one of the best metrics of popularity.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1618  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 5:09 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
What's a CFL?
vac·u·ous /ˈvakyo͞oəs/

adjective: vacuous

having or showing a lack of thought or intelligence; mindless.
a vacuous smile"

synonyms: blank, vacant, expressionless, deadpan, inscrutable, inexpressive, poker-faced, emotionless, impassive, absent, absentminded, uninterested, empty, glassy, stony, wooden, motionless, lifeless, inanimate

"he had a vacuous expression on his face"

antonyms: expressive, meaningful

archaic
empty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1619  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 5:10 PM
TorontoDrew's Avatar
TorontoDrew TorontoDrew is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,359
Time will tell. Every pro team has it's ups and downs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1620  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 5:11 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Time will tell. Every pro team has it's ups and downs.
Couldn't agree more.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:59 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.