Trillium Line (O-Train) Updates

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

IMHO, there is not enough distance for the elevation change from under Bronson to over the diamond. It would be too steep, and you cannot regrade under Bronson up.
Under is easier - there is more length available with including regrading all the way back under Bronson down as well.

We'll see I guess. A quick check in Google maps shows there is 210 metres from the end of the Bronson overpass to the diamond. Assuming the grade separation would be about 8 metres, that would be a 3.8% grade... not unmanageable for LRT.

The distance to the Sawmill Creek bridge is shorter especially if the overpass is also crossing over the Transitway. I could see that getting replaced with the new structure as well, which would allow for a double-track section from Bronson to nearly Walkley.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

The Rideau River Bridge at Carleton U study has yet to report in - I think they would like to do it, but are trying to scrounge the budget out of other sources like the MUP , cycling , or repair-or-replace infrastructure maintenance. That would be a doubling plus cycle plus ped bridge replacement. Would be very nice to have added in, and could (!) extend possible doubling all the way to the north side of Heron.

What I would like to see them do is replace the bridge with a double deck bridge while the line is down anyway. the lower deck would be for a MUP and the upper deck for trains. The advantage of this is the MUP could be at a similar elevation to the MUPs on either side of the river. This section of the river isn't navigable, so the bridge only needs to be above the flood plane.

Definite blockages include : Heron Rd. , Walkley Rd. , The Dow's Lake tunnel and the trench north until the north side of the 417.
Heron and Walkley will not happen soon.
I do not think the prov is ready to replace the 417 bridges yet, and it would not do much good without the tunnel and cut fixes. This stretch of 417 to Colonel By Dr. will remain single track for a long time.

I tend to agree with you. The only exception is while building the hospital, I strongly suspect the cut between Carling and POW Dr. will be widened to accommodate double track (they won't want to tear up the hospital to do it later). There is also talk of adding a hospital station there, but since there is a curve there, they may find that the best option is to move the Carling station under Carling Ave. and then have a south entrance from the station directly into the hospital, which would mean replacing the Carling overpass anyway.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

What I would like to see them do is replace the bridge with a double deck bridge while the line is down anyway. the lower deck would be for a MUP and the upper deck for trains. The advantage of this is the MUP could be at a similar elevation to the MUPs on either side of the river. This section of the river isn't navigable, so the bridge only needs to be above the flood plane.



I tend to agree with you. The only exception is while building the hospital, I strongly suspect the cut between Carling and POW Dr. will be widened to accommodate double track (they won't want to tear up the hospital to do it later). There is also talk of adding a hospital station there, but since there is a curve there, they may find that the best option is to move the Carling station under Carling Ave. and then have a south entrance from the station directly into the hospital, which would mean replacing the Carling overpass anyway.

1) yup. I believe that is indeed what they are attempting to do - wrap the bridge refurb/replace into the shutdown - it makes the most sense (snort) and all that is holding it up is finding the financing. They may wrap the money into the overall contract anyway, since they 'found' enough to extend the south end. They need to 'facilitate' the study report, like the diamond study.

2) yup. the whole hospital / station / widening is going to be a bit of a mess - the timings are all wrong to get it done in this shutdown - it will probably have to be another 'summer' shutdown to do both the Carling bridge and cut widening (sigh) .

[PHrenetic]

Quote: bradnixon
We'll see I guess. A quick check in Google maps shows there is 210 metres from the end of the Bronson overpass to the diamond. Assuming the grade separation would be about 8 metres, that would be a 3.8% grade... not unmanageable for LRT.

The distance to the Sawmill Creek bridge is shorter especially if the overpass is also crossing over the Transitway. I could see that getting replaced with the new structure as well, which would allow for a double-track section from Bronson to nearly Walkley.

UnQuote.

Good Day.

humn.... interesting. I do not know if 8 metres is sufficient for federal rail standards. Over would definitely make Sawmill Creek far easier.

We shall see. Sooner or later (later, given contract secrets !! ).

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

humn.... interesting. I do not know if 8 metres is sufficient for federal rail standards. Over would definitely make Sawmill Creek far easier.

We shall see. Sooner or later (later, given contract secrets !! ).

It's a bit of a guess; this diagram shows minimum clearance is 6.7 metres for non-electrified lines but maybe they will want something greater for this line.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

It's a bit of a guess; this diagram shows minimum clearance is 6.7 metres for non-electrified lines but maybe they will want something greater for this line.

Excellent.... yup, I was looking back in the Rural Commuter Rail thread, and in post 288 the PoW bridge indicates a shade over 8 metres from top to well below top-of-rail. Your ref. has 6.7, so I guess over VIA could work - as noted, it definitely makes Sawmill Creek easier.

Thx. We shall see.

[OCCheetos]

Not sure how interesting this is to anyone, but it looks like a new three-aspect signal has been installed in Walkley Yard seemingly meant for controlling Trillium Line trains as they leave the yard.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Not sure how interesting this is to anyone, but it looks like a new three-aspect signal has been installed in Walkley Yard seemingly meant for controlling Trillium Line trains as they leave the yard.

I've watched them hack away at that for the past week or so.

They did start using the south connecting track to get to Greenboro last year, so it's possibly to make that movement easier. It could also just be to tie more of the track into CTC.

[OCCheetos]

Three new signals have been installed in Walkley Yard. One new three-aspect signal further inside the yard (possibly to replace the old existing one?), and two two-aspect signals just west of the Bank Street overpass.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Three new signals have been installed in Walkley Yard. One new three-aspect signal further inside the yard (possibly to replace the old existing one?), and two two-aspect signals just west of the Bank Street overpass.

I think the furthest one in replaces an old one. The tracks in that area were reconfigured last year in preparation for Capital Railway to use the south connecting track.

There is also a new signal almost under the bridge on the east side, for the north connecting track coming into the yard, and one just to the west of the bridge for the south connecting track coming into the yard.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I think the furthest one in replaces an old one. The tracks in that area were reconfigured last year in preparation for Capital Railway to use the south connecting track.

There is also a new signal almost under the bridge on the east side, for the north connecting track coming into the yard, and one just to the west of the bridge for the south connecting track coming into the yard.

I took a few pictures of the new signals today. From what I saw, these seem to be part of an entirely new signalling system in the yard and isn't meant to replace any of the old signals.
(That new three-aspect signal in the back seems oriented for a completely different track than the old one).

My guess is it's to help automate yard movements between freight and O-Train. I wonder what this says about freight in this area. Here to stay?

Full-resolution album

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I took a few pictures of the new signals today. From what I saw, these seem to be part of an entirely new signalling system in the yard and isn't meant to replace any of the old signals.
(That new three-aspect signal in the back seems oriented for a completely different track than the old one).

My guess is it's to help automate yard movements between freight and O-Train. I wonder what this says about freight in this area. Here to stay?

Full-resolution album

It's tough to see in your second picture, but there was a three aspect signal in the yard before.

Everything else on the north connecting track and into the yard was just single aspect, red, ground level signals. These look to have been replaced and expanded upon.

Freight through that section is limited to 2 round trips a week pretty much, serving Kott and Nylene.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Catenary

It's tough to see in your second picture, but there was a three aspect signal in the yard before.

It kind of blends into the surroundings with how old it is..



I've circled the signals in this picture. The red one is the old signal and the aspects are oriented to face that track that leads towards the right. The blue one is the new one and seems to be oriented to face the track with all the cars on it.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

It kind of blends into the surroundings with how old it is..



I've circled the signals in this picture. The red one is the old signal and the aspects are oriented to face that track that leads towards the right. The blue one is the new one and seems to be oriented to face the track with all the cars on it.

Yes, and if I'm not mistaken, the southernmost track with the existing signal is the through track through the yard. You can also see the stub of track left from the removal of a switch last summer.

[MountainView]

Out of pure curiosity and slightly off topic but do any of you know how often or the schedule of the freight trains leaving the yard to the east? I wouldn't mind taking my little one to see some freight trains if there was some sort of schedule.

I am assuming the trains leaving east are slightly longer than the 2-5 car trains I see that head west weekly-ish?

Thanks!

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Out of pure curiosity and slightly off topic but do any of you know how often or the schedule of the freight trains leaving the yard to the east? I wouldn't mind taking my little one to see some freight trains if there was some sort of schedule.

I am assuming the trains leaving east are slightly longer than the 2-5 car trains I see that head west weekly-ish?

Thanks!

There's no public schedule and it tends to change from month to month (apparently).

I believe some trains are currently leaving the yard in the evenings? (While I was taking the pictures above^ on Friday I did hear a locomotive in the yard and some of the freight cars that were previously there are now gone).

I've only ever seen the freight train once out of pure chance.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

There's no public schedule and it tends to change from month to month (apparently).

I believe some trains are currently leaving the yard in the evenings? (While I was taking the pictures above^ on Friday I did hear a locomotive in the yard and some of the freight cars that were previously there are now gone).

I've only ever seen the freight train once out of pure chance.

There's quite often shunting in the yard in the evening, I can hear it from my house. I don't think they leave the yard though.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Out of pure curiosity and slightly off topic but do any of you know how often or the schedule of the freight trains leaving the yard to the east? I wouldn't mind taking my little one to see some freight trains if there was some sort of schedule.

I am assuming the trains leaving east are slightly longer than the 2-5 car trains I see that head west weekly-ish?

Thanks!

You might be better off going to Smiths Falls. I don't think it is as busy a yard as it used to be, but at least it is on the CPR main line (plus you get all the VIA trains).

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

There's no public schedule and it tends to change from month to month (apparently).

The trend these days is to not have a schedule for freight trains but instead to run them when they have enough goods to make a consist.

[OCCheetos]

The trend these days is to not have a schedule for freight trains but instead to run them when they have enough goods to make a consist.

According the Beachburg Sub blog the trains go through the same areas at roughly the same time.

I guess whenever there is enough freight they'll leave the yard at the same time every time.

[MountainView]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Smiths Falls is definitely a good idea that I didn't really consider!

Cheers!