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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 11:27 AM
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Exclamation Preparing Canada for Climate Refugees

The Guardian had estimated "Global warming could create 150 million 'climate refugees' by 2050 " https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/

If even a fifth of these came to Canada it would double our population in 30 years.

We need to prepare our infrastructure to welcome the displaced masses of a ruined world.

One option is resurrecting the "1969 Mid-Canada Plan". Opening up the mid-north to development and agriculture.

Canada has the space to support another country above our current one. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...low-the-arctic

If the climate changes to our benefit at the expense of others' countries, shouldn't share any lands we gain the use of?

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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 11:57 AM
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We can double the population of Canada south of the green area and still live comfortably.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 12:20 PM
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With such a major climatic shift, outside of a few select areas (that are already agricultural regions), it will take some time for the flora and fauna to catch up, and therefore the proper soils to build.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 12:35 PM
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Prepare for a massive backlash if Canada were to double or more its annual intake of immigrants.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 4:06 PM
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We all know what happened in Europe when a couple million Syrians were displaced... what will it be like, globally, at 10X that scale??
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusio Cogno View Post

If even a fifth of these came to Canada it would double our population in 30 years.

We need to prepare our infrastructure to welcome the displaced masses of a ruined world.
Why would Canada be expected to "welcome" anywhere in the range of a fifth of these climate refugees? Not saying I am necessarily against it, just wonder why "a fifth"?
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 4:15 PM
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lol . You can't create a big city in Northern ''central'' Quebec. do you know how cold it gets in the winter ? the Canadian Shield is non hospitable.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 4:16 PM
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We all know what happened in Europe when a couple million Syrians were displaced... what will it be like, globally, at 10X that scale??
If it were to happen it likely would be way more gradual and less intense than the situation with the Syrians. More people sure, but over many years and even decades.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 4:16 PM
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I'm very skeptical of the term "climate refugee". It is nearly impossible to attribute migration patterns to climate change because people don't escape from places due to a warming climate, they escape from places because they experience violence that may or may not have been a partial result of changing climate patterns.

I'm not a climate change denier, but climate change can be conveniently inserted into any political debate, down to the most domestic and local level (Example). Perhaps advocates of this approach feel that it will mobilize our energy to combatting climate change. For me it has the opposite effect: it cheapens the concept as people attach their own personal hobby horses to it, often for opportunistic gain (e.g. researchers who are told to add the words "climate change" to a funding proposal, no matter how tenuous).
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
lol . You can't create a big city in Northern ''central'' Quebec. do you know how cold it gets in the winter ? the Canadian Shield is non hospitable.
Yeah, this map highlights Labrador City as a potential major growth centre, which says to me Rohmer has never stepped foot there before. Not that it's too cold to survive or anything, but you'd be hard pressed to find more people than exist there now who would be willing to live in that isolation.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
With such a major climatic shift, outside of a few select areas (that are already agricultural regions), it will take some time for the flora and fauna to catch up, and therefore the proper soils to build.
Sorry GOD pushed all your topsoil down here to Illinois/Indiana during the last ice age. That is how we know this climate change is a farce - GOD doesn't make mistakes.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 5:28 PM
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Northern Canada is not nearly as inhospitable as people make it out to be. This is a big myth that needs to be dispelled and I believe the North does need to be developed for us to grow as a nation. For example there are a lot of very good soil for agriculture in Northern Ontario and Manitoba that aren't exploited at all, mostly due to the lack of infrastructure which impedes development. We could easily double our agricultural output if we farmed everywhere we could and I think those are great lands for further development in a post-global warming apocalyptic world.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal...cs142p2_054011

And those are great soils for farming, you can even farm in crappy weather/conditions; people are farming in the Yukon and NWT for instance.

Here is a land quality map:


You can see huge areas with great agricultural lands near Lake Abitibi, Woodland Caribou provincial park, God's lake, All the land west of Lake Winnipeg, and a lot in Northern BC. The seasons are probably too short there to farm some of the more demanding crops like corn but there are definitely many crops that can be farmed there. The cold climate would also give them a unique, sweater, flavour.

Last edited by FFX-ME; Jun 6, 2017 at 5:41 PM.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
Northern Canada is not nearly as inhospitable as people make it out to be. This is a big myth that needs to be dispelled and I believe the North does need to be developed for us to grow as a nation. For example there are a lot of very good soil for agriculture in Northern Ontario and Manitoba that aren't exploited at all, mostly due to the lack of infrastructure which impedes development. We could easily double our agricultural output if we farmed everywhere we could and I think those are great lands for further development in a post-global warming apocalyptic world.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal...cs142p2_054011

And those are great soils for farming, you can even farm in crappy weather/conditions; people are farming in the Yukon and NWT for instance.
You're quite right, but I wonder why we're discussing settling more of Canada in terms of regions suitable for agriculture.

Very very few people migrate these days with the intention of having their own farm.

Agriculture is no longer a field that will involve a large chunk of the population and the percentage will continue to decline as the industry becomes more and more efficient. The way things are going at some point the entire world population will be fed through agriculture involving only a small fraction of the land that is currently devoted to that industry.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
And those are great soils for farming, you can even farm in crappy weather/conditions; people are farming in the Yukon and NWT for instance.
In the future I think things might go in the opposite direction; farms will be more intensive and factory-like, far less land will be needed, and it will make the most sense to locate them near population centres.

The global population growth rate and demand for food has gone down a lot. The global growth rate peaked around 2% annually and now it's down to around 1%. The population might start shrinking sometime around 2050-2100. People are also better-fed than they used to be, in the sense of getting enough calories per day to survive around the world.

I won't be surprised if we find fewer people living in marginal areas like northern boreal forests in the future (if I live for another 50 years), even if the climate in those places warms up a bit.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I'm not a climate change denier, but climate change can be conveniently inserted into any political debate, down to the most domestic and local level (Example). Perhaps advocates of this approach feel that it will mobilize our energy to combatting climate change. For me it has the opposite effect: it cheapens the concept as people attach their own personal hobby horses to it, often for opportunistic gain (e.g. researchers who are told to add the words "climate change" to a funding proposal, no matter how tenuous).
People really love disaster porn and apocalyptic scenarios. I guess this is why they're a feature of so many religions and why politicians use them so effectively.

Climate change is a real thing but it isn't very dramatic when viewed on a human timescale. Sea level rise is in the millimeters per year. Average temperature increases are a fraction of a degree per decade. But I see those "what if all the ice on earth melted" maps a lot more frequently than average sea level rise scenarios for 50 or 100 years in the future, which are more relevant but less exciting.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 6:45 PM
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Climate change is a creeping process. It's already started (we've already pushed the global temperature noticeably above what it should be right now) and it will continue over decades. It's not like one day we're going to wake up and boom, the apocalypse is here. It will be a slow, steady loss. That's what makes it so dangerous.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 9:29 PM
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 9:58 PM
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It's not like one day we're going to wake up and boom, the apocalypse is here. It will be a slow, steady loss. That's what makes it so dangerous.
Isn't a slow, steady process much less dangerous because there is time to plan and adapt?

It is true that it is easier to rouse humans to do something when they feel threatened on a visceral level, and the prospect of decades-long gradual climate change doesn't necessarily push those buttons, but emotional reactions aren't very useful for dealing with complex global problems anyway.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 11:10 PM
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And just like climate change, humans are also slow to change their ways...
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