Stronger ties -- Mexican-US border cities or Canadian-US border cities?

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah. looking at google maps i could find only one border crossing between new hampshire and quebec, while i counted 14 border crossings between vermont and quebec.

Yes, I remember crossing there only once. My maternal grandmother's folks hailed from St Venant de Paquetteville, a town that straddles the NH border. It is sparsely populated up in that part of the state as compared to where Vermont and NY states run near Quebec.

[JManc]

^ I lived in Plattsburgh NY and was in VT all the time and there was a ton of activity between them and QC. I also lived in NH and they forgot they bordered Quebec. In that part of NY, the "big city" was Montreal, not NYC.

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Being integrated is much different than saying there's no border security until you hit San Antonio, which is really far away from McAllen, TX -- 240 miles apart. Sure there's lots of people that commute daily from Mex to Tex and vice versa with family on both sides as somebody else already mentioned.

You still have to go through customs at each port of entry in McAllen.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir//U.S...2!2d26.0968854

There is definitely security on the southern border and he may be referring to the various border control checkpoints (there's one near San Antonio on I-10) that stop pretty much everyone and check their status.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by JManc

Agreed. A lot of the time you have family living on both sides of the border of the US and Mexico so there's a lot of cohesion. Never got that impression with US/Canadian border cities..

Then you have the wrong impression because there are lots of people with family on both sides.

Don't know where you come up with this "worlds apart" idea either...

[Docta_Love]

Originally Posted by softee

An interesting thing I recently learned about the Detroit-Windsor connection was that during the height of the Motown sound in the 1960s, the most popular radio station for debuting and promoting new music from the Motown label in the region was actually a Windsor station, and several of DJs who worked at the station were Americans who commuted across the border. I saw this on a documentary about the little known Canadian influence behind the success of Motown records called Hittsville US Eh!

That is interesting I wasn't aware of that it does make sense looking at the broad direction of edgy American musicians in the early and mid 60's especially of going to Britain becoming well known and then coming back and making it big in the US. It makes sense that Canada as part of the British Empire at that time would potentially be even more interested in "underground" American music than "mainstream america".


Also on US - Canada relations while in my post I was definitely using Detroit pro sports to show regional cohesion on both sides of the border I also wanted to make the point that all major US leagues have Canadian franchises except the NFL. Although Canada has its own football league unfortunately there isn't this kind of international cultural cohesion with Mexico which could potentially bridge some divides during stormy political times like situation we find our selves in now.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by The North One

Then you have the wrong impression because there are lots of people with family on both sides.

Don't know where you come up with this "worlds apart" idea either...

I am from Upstate NY and lived near the Canadian border and even had relatives in both BC and Toronto...and now live in Texas so it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, there are people with families in both US/Canada but usually scattered all over. Like mine. On the US/MX border, you are far more likely to have families literally on either side of the border; for ex. some living in Nuevo Laredo and some in Laredo. Id be curious the comparison to families in Detriot/ Windsor.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docta_Love

Also on US - Canada relations while in my post I was definitely using Detroit pro sports to show regional cohesion on both sides of the border I also wanted to make the point that all major US leagues have Canadian franchises except the NFL.

that's true, but MLB and the NBA only have a token presence in canada with one team each in toronto.

only the NHL (7 teams) and, to a lesser extent, MLS (3 teams) have what i would call a true national presence throughout canada.

[C.]

Interesting poll results

7-7-7

[iheartthed]

I haven't been to Tijuana/San Diego since I was in college a decade ago but those two places seemed much farther apart than Detroit/Windsor. When I was growing up in Detroit, before the passport rule went into affect for land crossings, Windsor was very much an extension of the Detroit area. One summer I attended a day camp in Windsor that required my father to cross the border twice each day to drop me off and pick me back up.

Windsor is also Canada's "Motor City."

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that's true, but MLB and the NBA only have a token presence in canada with one team each in toronto.

only the NHL (7 teams) and, to a lesser extent, MLS (3 teams) have what i would call a true national presence throughout canada.

Good point. Let's not forget that Canada lost the Montreal Expos to Washington and the Vancouver Grizzlies to Memphis.

I wonder if one day we'll see the NFL or MLB expanding to Monterey or Mexico City. The NFL and NBA has been playing regular season games there and MLB is interested in playing some regular season games there as well.

[chris08876]

Lol at the poll as of now.

On average, the Mexican-US border cities. 8 -------------- 33.33%
On average, the Canadian-US border cities. 8 -------------- 33.33%
On average, they are equally strong, or weak. 8 -------------- 33.33%

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I haven't been to Tijuana/San Diego since I was in college a decade ago but those two places seemed much farther apart than Detroit/Windsor. When I was growing up in Detroit, before the passport rule went into affect for land crossings, Windsor was very much an extension of the Detroit area. One summer I attended a day camp in Windsor that required my father to cross the border twice each day to drop me off and pick me back up.

Windsor is also Canada's "Motor City."

I find that San Diego isn't a Mexican border city in the way that people would expect. (And relative to others that are right on the border.)

San Diego contrary to all of the others unless I am mistaken, is still a fairly anglo-dominated city. Yes, it has a large hispanic population (about one third) but that's a much lower percentage than the other border cities, and even lower than a lot of other cities much further away from the border.

[chris08876]

Mexican-US border and its proxy cities are an integral part of the fluid economy of which provides philosophical medicine and things that make people cut the grass with scissors with ferocious fortitude. A $64 billion industry.

So yes, they are tied in some respects.

[Acajack]

There are obviously strong ties between Canada and the US in the border regions but on a family and friend level they seem a lot weaker than along the Mexican border to me. I am pretty sure this was not always the case but I would surmise today that a pretty clear majority of people in Windsor or Fort Erie or Coutts don't really have family or friends they are close to on the other side of the border. (Though decent sized minorities probably do.) The situation on the US-Mexico border is far different due to continued massive and recent population movements there.

When it comes to the border, Canada and the US are like twins separated at birth. Mexico and the US when it comes to border areas are more like siblings still living in the same house but on different floors.

[Capsicum]

Interestingly, if you say the words "the border" in the US, probably way more people will think of the southern than the northern border in all but the closest cities to Canada.

It may be different if you said the word "border" to someone living in Detroit or Buffalo, but my impression seems to be that even in cities much closer to the Canadian than the Mexican border (say, in Chicago or NYC), the Mexican border will be much more "on the radar" or salient than the Canadian border.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah. looking at google maps i could find only one border crossing between new hampshire and quebec, while i counted 14 border crossings between vermont and quebec.

And it's closed at night, and leads to nowhere on the Quebec side. 99%+ of all traffic coming from [and/or going to] New Hampshire enters Quebec [and/or leaves Quebec] at either Hereford (Quebec Route 141) or East Hereford (Quebec Route 253), in both cases passing through a thin sliver of Vermont. Both of these crossings are open 24/7, unlike the Chartierville crossing you mentioned.

(I live in the southeastern corner of Quebec and have several lands just outside Colebrook NH so I do that commute regularly, I'm very familiar with the area.)

They are right though, Vermont is "north heavy" while NH is "south heavy" in terms of where all the stuff is. Vermont's main population center (in its NW corner) is "looking to Montreal" a lot more than what happens in NH, where most people are within Greater Boston or almost.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Yes, I remember crossing there only once. My maternal grandmother's folks hailed from St Venant de Paquetteville, a town that straddles the NH border. It is sparsely populated up in that part of the state as compared to where Vermont and NY states run near Quebec.

I am willing to bet you are totally mistaken and did not cross at the one crossing Steely Dan mentioned.

You can see the hills of NH across the river but from St-Venant-de-Paquette if you want to go to the U.S. (legally) you're going to be crossing into Beecher Falls, VT.

[lio45]

P.S. I'm sure I have common relations with your grandmother's family. Know any Bélangers or Vachons from there...? Any yes on either and we've got a "relationship" of way less than the typical six degrees.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

It may be different if you said the word "border" to someone living in Detroit or Buffalo, but my impression seems to be that even in cities much closer to the Canadian than the Mexican border (say, in Chicago or NYC), the Mexican border will be much more "on the radar" or salient than the Canadian border.

That would certainly be the case in chicago, due in no small part to the fact that there are over a million people of Mexican ancestry living in chicagoland now. "Mexico", as a concept, lives a whole hell of a lot larger in chicago than "canada" does, despite the geographic proximity.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by lio45

P.S. I'm sure I have common relations with your grandmother's family. Know any Bélangers or Vachons from there...? Any yes on either and we've got a "relationship" of way less than the typical six degrees.

How about Daigneaults?

I think you are right about the crossing since this happened maybe 5 years ago and I remember vaguely that we ended up driving thru eastern Vermont more than NH.

[Xing]

I have family in El Paso / Juárez, and they cross the border weekly/daily, depending on work, and school. My family in Juárez speaks excellent English, and some of my family in El Paso speak excellent Spanish. They shop on both sides, and use the Mexican and US airports interchangeably. El Paso’s population is primarily Mexican American, with the non-Latinos being either military, or college students from other parts of Texas. While the area could work on the urbanity we at SSP take pride in, culturally the area is pretty unique.

Oh, and on another note, Juárez goes through phases where the young people take interest in different parts of American culture. I remember a few years hockey was big. Halloween is sometimes celebrated. American Football has its moments. Big trucks, belt buckles, Tex-Mex, and cowboy hats are shared cultural attributes with Texas.