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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON View Post
The idea of an inland port is that the goods in containers would arrive in bond and be shipped to bonded warehouses where they would remain free of duty and taxes and get distributed in bonded warehouses for further shipment to points east and south. I have a client who is developing a tracking devise that through sattilite positioning can track the location of the containers and track who and when the containers get opened for purposes of assessing the bond related issues.

Vancouver port is too busy as are most of the west coasts ports in the US to handle a lot of the increased traffic that is expected from China and other points east. With the opening of the port in Prince Rupert, shippers from Asia now have a route that is shorter than the other traditional routes in existence. Also, if they are able to unload the ships in a more efficient manner, the time line for shipping will be greatly reduced. That can be a significant factor.

Winnipeg has a good location for Churchill and goods travelling from Europe. However, Edmonton has a better location for goods from Asia. A lot of the advantages that Winnipeg has, also exist in Edmonton. For example, both cities have 24 hour airports. However, Edmonton's airport is farther out in the city and is not confined by the city population being so close. Both airports have lots of developable land. Again, Edmonton has more considering it is not confined at all by the city proper. Both cities have good rail connections. Both cities have strong trucking facilities. Edmonton's location is better as you would think that if you wanted to ship to North America from Asia you would want to ship to the first major point, split up your product and move it by truck to all other points in North America. If you intend to ship to California or other points in the western US as part of this process, why would you want to ship all the way to Winnipeg and then ship things back west? As far as air traffic from Asia is concerned, Edmonton is currently working on getting airlines to use the airport as its stopover for fueling for flights from eastern US cities heading west to China. Once you establish the fueling stops you can integrate the shipment of international cargo from Asia. Here again, Edmonton has an advantage because Winnipeg may be too close to the eastern cities to warrant being a fueling stop.

Eventually, I think both cities are going to end up having inland ports but they may end up servicing different markets.
I have watched this discussion unfold for the past 40 years in Winnipeg and regardless of the Centre port proposal it's just not going to happen. ( Churchill will not be the port Prince Rupert is now with year round shipping ). Although I am a Winnipegger at heart and would love to see Centreport become a reality I believe that the Edmonton Inland Port will actual get built.
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tower Crane View Post
I have watched this discussion unfold for the past 40 years in Winnipeg and regardless of the Centre port proposal it's just not going to happen. ( Churchill will not be the port Prince Rupert is now with year round shipping ). Although I am a Winnipegger at heart and would love to see Centreport become a reality I believe that the Edmonton Inland Port will actual get built.

So that probably means you are over 50 eh?

Meh, regardless of all the negativity around here (especially from out-of-towners who are ex-pats which would explain all the negativity), I am starting to be convinced (and I myself admit I was a doubting Thomas) that this will become a reality. Maybe after these forty years, politicians are waking up and smelling the bitter taste that Winnipeg needs to promote itself to the world.

There is too much negativity associated with the word Winnipeg. It's time to change this one step at a time. This is a good starting point.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tower Crane View Post
I have watched this discussion unfold for the past 40 years in Winnipeg and regardless of the Centre port proposal it's just not going to happen. ( Churchill will not be the port Prince Rupert is now with year round shipping ). Although I am a Winnipegger at heart and would love to see Centreport become a reality I believe that the Edmonton Inland Port will actual get built.
I don't see these Edmonton advantages, particularly the alleged advantages relating to the distance of the airport from the city and the availability of land. Winnipeg's airport can operate 24 hours and the inland port would have to be spectacularly successful before land availability became a problem. As for distance, at least as the crow flies Winnipeg is far closer to most U.S. destinations than Edmonton is. Even if we restrict ourselves to the western half of the U.S., Winnipeg is 400 km closer to Denver and 800 km closer to Houston. Edmonton is 250 km closer to L.A.
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
I don't see these Edmonton advantages, particularly the alleged advantages relating to the distance of the airport from the city and the availability of land. Winnipeg's airport can operate 24 hours and the inland port would have to be spectacularly successful before land availability became a problem. As for distance, at least as the crow flies Winnipeg is far closer to most U.S. destinations than Edmonton is. Even if we restrict ourselves to the western half of the U.S., Winnipeg is 400 km closer to Denver and 800 km closer to Houston. Edmonton is 250 km closer to L.A.
Edmonton is the first major city on the rail routes from the Port of Prince Rupert. I do not think you can minimize that fact. Add the 1,200 kilometers it takes to ship anything from Edmonton to Winnipeg makes any destination west of Winnipeg logistically farther if you have to ship to Winnipeg first and then back to western markets. There is no advantage for Winnipeg's location over Edmonton as far as eastern cities go because goods would pass through both cities on their way to eastern US markets so unpacking rail cars in Edmonton and redistibuting the goods or unpacking them in Winnipeg probably won't make a big difference. This is only my opinion on goods coming from the Port of Prince Rupert. I still think both cities will develop inland ports but each will serve different ports (Edmonton - Prince Rupert and Vancouver. Winnipeg - Churchill) and different markets (Edmonton - Asia, Winnipeg - Europe).
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON View Post
Edmonton is the first major city on the rail routes from the Port of Prince Rupert. I do not think you can minimize that fact. Add the 1,200 kilometers it takes to ship anything from Edmonton to Winnipeg makes any destination west of Winnipeg logistically farther if you have to ship to Winnipeg first and then back to western markets. There is no advantage for Winnipeg's location over Edmonton as far as eastern cities go because goods would pass through both cities on their way to eastern US markets so unpacking rail cars in Edmonton and redistibuting the goods or unpacking them in Winnipeg probably won't make a big difference. This is only my opinion on goods coming from the Port of Prince Rupert. I still think both cities will develop inland ports but each will serve different ports (Edmonton - Prince Rupert and Vancouver. Winnipeg - Churchill) and different markets (Edmonton - Asia, Winnipeg - Europe).
I was assuming that "inland port" referred mainly to being an air cargo distribution hub. Obviously if it's just being a rail distribution centre, then both Edmonton and Winnipeg are already "inland ports" and have been for a century, or even longer in the case of Winnipeg.
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 7:54 PM
DAVEinEDMONTON DAVEinEDMONTON is offline
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
I was assuming that "inland port" referred mainly to being an air cargo distribution hub. Obviously if it's just being a rail distribution centre, then both Edmonton and Winnipeg are already "inland ports" and have been for a century, or even longer in the case of Winnipeg.
"An Inland Port is a physical site located away from traditional land, air and coastal borders with the vision to facilitate and process international trade through strategic investment in multi-modal transportation assets and by promoting value-added services as goods move through the supply chain."
Center for Transportation Research, University of Texas
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 4:51 PM
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...of interest is the fact that Edmonton started the process in June, 2006 and has already secured federal seed financing...Winnipeg has been at this concept for years and years and now finally Manitoba incorporates Centreport. Makes me think that the government is trying to catch up to the pack...

Interesting view .. but completely wrong.

I would hardly call hundreds of million of dollars in investment ... some sort of catchup.


From the press release:

Quote:
September 10, 2008

PROVINCE INTRODUCES LEGISLATION WHICH WOULD CREATE INLAND PORT CORPORATION


The Manitoba government has introduced legislation that would create CentrePort Canada, a private-sector focused corporation that would develop and promote Manitoba’s inland port and would build on the province’s well-established network of air, rail, sea and trucking route, Premier Gary Doer said today.

“CentrePort Canada is an exciting vision we share with Manitoba’s business community, municipal leaders and others who want to build our province,” Doer said. “This will allow us to create jobs, attract investment and take full advantage of our prime location in the heart of North America.”

The CentrePort Canada Act would:
· establish CentrePort Canada Inc., a non-share capital corporation with a mandate to operate Manitoba’s inland port, attract and co-ordinate business investment in the inland port area and market the port;
· designate 20,000 acres of land in the vicinity of the James Armstrong Richardson International Airport for the inland port to serve as a transportation, trade, manufacturing, distribution, warehousing and logistics centre;
· support the fast-tracking of investment and economic development decisions based upon a single, comprehensive transportation, infrastructure and land-use plan for the inland port area;
· mandate CentrePort Canada to develop a business plan and a budget for self-sustaining operations;
· establish the governance of the corporation, which would feature a 15-member board nominated primarily from the private sector;
· develop the inland port area in consultation with landowners, nearby community members as well as port users; and
· protect the 24-hour operation of the Richardson International Airport.

The premier thanked Manitoba’s business community, the Premier’s Economic Advisory Council (PEAC), the Manitoba Federation of Labour, the mayor of Winnipeg, reeve of Rosser and other community leaders for being part of the private-public sector effort to build Manitoba’s inland port. The shared vision has allowed the fast-tracking of developments related to the inland port.

“The inland port is a major economic vision and an exciting opportunity for Manitoba,” said Dave Angus, president of the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce. “Changing global supply chains and increasing transportation costs are prompting international companies to rethink how they move their products to market. We have an opportunity to respond to this new reality and attract new investment.”

“The board of CentrePort Canada will be put in place quickly and with full community support,” said Bob Silver, co-chair of the PEAC. “A one-stop shop for investment information and decisions and easy access to serviced land with links to multimodal transportation options is what business is looking for. The new corporation responds to this need.”

“We are pleased the inland port is being developed in conjunction with airport lands,” added Barry Rempel, president and chief executive officer of the Winnipeg Airports Authority. “There is
shovel-ready land available immediately and a plan for future phases of fully-serviced land. With enhanced roads, rail access and cargo shipping, we have the assets to move goods to market. And we have access to markets in all directions, from the port of Churchill to Mexico, through Thunder Bay to the east, to the Asia Pacific Gateway via Prince Rupert.”

Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Ron Lemieux, who introduced the bill, said work is already underway on a number of initiatives that support Manitoba’s inland port including:

· Provincial legislation was recently introduced to allow tax increment financing to be used to support development of the inland port.

· $85 million in federal-provincial funding was announced last week for improvements to PTH 75, Manitoba’s key trade route to the south. PTH 75 supported $14.4 billion in Canada-U.S. trade last year via the Emerson Border crossing, the busiest on the prairies.

· $68 million in federal-provincial funding for the partial twinning of PR 221/Inkster Boulevard, a route that is central to the inland port and a priority for the business community.

· The Richardson International Airport is undergoing further expansion. The airport is the only unrestricted, 24-hour airport on the prairies and supports Canada’s largest collection of air cargo handlers.

· $68 million for upgrades to the Hudson Bay rail line and the port of Churchill including $48 million from the federal and provincial governments and $20 million from the Hudson Bay Rail Company.

· $55 million in federal-provincial funding for an interchange and rail grade separation where the two Asia Pacific Corridors meet in Manitoba, at the junction of the Trans-Canada Highway and
PTH 16.


The 20,000 acres of the inland port are within the City of Winnipeg and the rural municipality of Rosser and lie south and east of the Perimeter Highway, west of Route 90, Oak Point Highway and King Edward Street, and north of Silver Avenue, Sturgeon Road and Saskatchewan Avenue.

The leaders noted the area is already attracting business investment, with Canada Post, Greyhound Canada and Standard Aero all announcing new expansions in recent weeks.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 4:58 PM
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Okay .. there seems to be some confussion by some of which city is ahead and which are behind.. so allow me to try to clear up any confusion as to which city is the overwelming destination hub for goods... and why it is destined to be the major Inland Port of Canada.

Lets start with exsisting infrastructure. Six primary rail yards.


Symington Yards .. one of the largest rail yards in the world



Another shot of CNR Syminton Yards .. yes its MASSIVE



CNR Fort Rouge Rail Yards.. about the size of Regina's CPR Yards



CNR Transcona Yards



CPR North Transcona Yards



CPR Weston Yards



Another shot of the very impressive and large Weston Yards



CPR Winnipeg Yards.. also among the largest in the nation.


Now lets focus on location:


Emerson Border Crossing - linking Highway 75 to Interstate 29 and the Mid-Contient-Corridor .... Only 75km from Winnipeg



An overview of the Major North American Trade Coridors
Source: Kansas Smart Port



An overview of the Mid Continent Corridor ... linking Winnipeg to the US mid-west, the heart of the US including Kansas City (Smart Park.. will feed off each other) and Mexico.



Direct Access to the Port of Churchill, which offers major savings in time (cuts nearly a week off of the shipping times) and millions in dollars of saving linking to Asia and Europe. (time is money in shipping).
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Last edited by newflyer; Sep 21, 2008 at 5:45 PM.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 5:54 PM
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That is some nice pretty pictures of some railway yards...however...none of which are at the airport.

Sounds like Winnipeg has lots of rail capacity. Edmonton, however, is busting at the seams because of the economy and new bigger yards are needed.

The idea behind an inland port is to take goods that are "in bond" i.e. that have not cleared customs, take them out of the seaport and perform the port functions away from the seaport in order to speed up seaport operations and the overall flow of goods by merging all streams of transit, i.e. rail, air and trucking at one point. Therefore, having lots of existing rail yards is of no consequence since they are not custom controlled areas and not at the airport. New container shipping yards need to be built and if CP and CN in Edmonton need to do it anyway, my guess is that they will built them at the Edmonton airport long before they built them at Winnipeg airport because, hey, as you indicate, Winnipeg has lots of rail yard capacity already.

Edmonton already has a site plan for airport development in the inland port and is already in the process of constructing the cargo apron to handle the cargo.

Interesting how none of your pretty pictures show the new Port of Prince Rupert..seems you are missing a big piece of the shipping puzzle...
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 5:54 PM
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While it is humerous to think Edmonton or Regina could be much more than regional hubs .. the facts are they have nowhere near the capacity to haddle the goods.

Winnipeg is light years ahead of any other city in Canada in inland transportation infrastructure and access to major markets. (ie: US, Mexico, China, Russia and Europe.) Close access (75KM) to the second busiest border crossing in western Canada.

Of course if you ignore these vital points .. I am sure there are tons of demand for market links from Edmonton to ... ahhh well Red Deer.. and no major US markets.
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON View Post
That is some nice pretty pictures of some railway yards...however...none of which are at the airport.

Sounds like Winnipeg has lots of rail capacity. Edmonton, however, is busting at the seams because of the economy and new bigger yards are needed.

The idea behind an inland port is to take goods that are "in bond" i.e. that have not cleared customs, take them out of the seaport and perform the port functions away from the seaport in order to speed up seaport operations and the overall flow of goods by merging all streams of transit, i.e. rail, air and trucking at one point. Therefore, having lots of existing rail yards is of no consequence since they are not custom controlled areas and not at the airport. New container shipping yards need to be built and if CP and CN in Edmonton need to do it anyway, my guess is that they will built them at the Edmonton airport long before they built them at Winnipeg airport because, hey, as you indicate, Winnipeg has lots of rail yard capacity already.

Edmonton already has a site plan for airport development in the inland port and is already in the process of constructing the cargo apron to handle the cargo.
First of all CPR does not even service Edmonton is any meaningful way. A HUGE hole in Edmonton's fantasy.

You obviously have little undertanding of the logistics of an Inland Port. How do you think goods are going to be taken to and from the Inland Port, MAGIC?? ... no it will require massive amounts of rail infrastructure.

While it is true that it the Inland Port acts as a border point to clear goods.. the simple fact the Winnipeg deals in miltiples of more goods than Edmonton it plays completely into Inland Port. Winnipeg also has the means to manage and distribute the high volumes o goods to and from the Port. Edmonton .. well not really. Can you imagine the massive volumes of goods this port will be dealing with ... Winnipeg already has the capicty to haddle this level of business.

Winnipeg servces multiple rail companies like the CPR, CNR, Santa Fa and Burlington North and OmniTrax

Winnipeg is already the hub for all goods crossing Canada... Edmonton-Not

Winnipeg has direct access to major US markets - Edmonton -Not

Winnipeg has direct access to a sea port which is seeing its capacity expanded - Edmonton Not.. access Prince Rupert is expenssive beacuse of the mountains .. and is still days further away from Asia than is Churchill.

Lets not forget the ports in Thunder Bay and Duluth. Closer than Prince Rupert is to Edmonton.

Access to Asia and Europe.

Winnipeg is linked to the Mid-Continiental-Corridor... one of the busiest trade routes in North America - Edmonton Not.

Winnipeg has the only designated 24hr Airport in Western Canada by Transport Canada.

Winnipeg services more air Cargo companies than any other city in Canada.

Home to 4 of the largest Trucking companies in Canada


Really its not even a close comparison .. for many reasons.
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 6:20 PM
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While I did show Winnipeg's capacity to handle massive levels of goods and link them to the continent .. I wouldn't be fair if I didn't do the same for Edmonton and Regina, since they think they are in the running.



Edmonton CNR .. there is no CPR Yard in Edmonton to my knowledge



Regina CPR Yards .... no CNR Yards

Even if you combined the two cities they only offer a tiny fraction of Winnipeg's transportation capacity.
I can't even imagine either of those two cities imagining they are even in the running to become a major Inland Port.

Although Edmonton will make a good regional container port for Prince Rupert one day.
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 6:38 PM
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I still think that both Edmonton and Winnipeg can become inland ports that serve specific markets.

Regina? Um, I'm not convinced that there is a viable market here for an "inland port" as it is not directly linked to any major continental route. However, with that being said, I do believe Regina can serve as a regional port servicing the central prairie region, no question about that
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 6:40 PM
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I still think that both Edmonton and Winnipeg can become inland ports that serve specific markets.

Regina? Um, I'm not convinced that there is a viable market here for an "inland port" as it is not directly linked to any major continental route. However, with that being said, I do believe Regina can serve as a regional port servicing the central prairie region, no question about that
They'll have to duke it out with Saskatoon .. I am sure.
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 6:53 PM
DAVEinEDMONTON DAVEinEDMONTON is offline
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First of all CPR does not even service Edmonton is any meaningful way. A HUGE hole in Edmonton's fantasy.

You obviously have little undertanding of the logistics of an Inland Port. How do you think goods are going to be taken to and from the Inland Port, MAGIC?? ... no it will require massive amounts of rail infrastructure.

While it is true that it the Inland Port acts of a border point to clear goods.. the simple fact the Winnipeg deals in miltiples of more goods than Edmonton it plays completely into Inland Port. Winnipeg also has the means to manage and distribute the high volumes o goods to and from the Port. Edmonton .. well not really. Can you imagine the massive volumes of goods this port will be dealing with ... Winnipeg already has the capicty to haddle this level of business.

Winnipeg servces multiple rail lines lik the CPR, CNR, Santa Fa and Burlington North, OmniTrax

Winnipeg is already the hub for all goods crossing Canada... Edmonton-Not

Winnipeg has direct access to major US marekts - Edmonton -Not

Winnipeg has direct access to a sea port which is seeing its capacity expanded - Edmonton Not.. access Prince Rupert is expenssive beacuse of the mountains .. and is still days further away from Asia than is Churchill.

Winnipeg is linked to the Mid-Continiental-Corridor one of the bsuiest trade routes in North America - Edmonton Not.

Winnipeg has the only designated 24hr Airport in Western Canada by Transport Canada.

Winnipeg services more air Cargo compnaies than any other city in Canada.


Reall its not even a close comparison .. for many reasons.
The idea is to create new shipping routes with the opening of the Port at Prince Rupert. If there was no way of getting the goods from the Port to the rest of North America then what would be the point of opening the port? The rail system is already in place with CN. And golly gosh, I guess we should consider closing down Vancouver's and Seattle's ports because of those damn mountains being in the way. Getting way to expensive to ship through those darn mountains...what a laugh!!! I think it is you who has no idea about what is about to become in terms of shipping in North America. Edmonton is underutilzed as a shipping hub as is the Alaska to Mexico corridor. The creation of new routes to handle the expected increase in traffic is key.

But, you know, everything must flow through to Winnipeg...lol

Edmonton will more than likely service Prince Rupert and more traffic from Vancouver as these ports are predicting huge increases in container traffic and Winnipeg will serve Churchill. I am not sure why you have such a problem with that but...
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 7:08 PM
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While I did show Winnipeg's capacity to handle massive levels of goods and link them to the continent .. I wouldn't be fair if I didn't do the same for Edmonton and Regina, since they think they are in the running.

.. there is no CPR Yard in Edmonton to my knowledge.
Canada's new Government announces project in Edmonton for the Asia-Pacific Gateway and Corridor Initiative

EDMONTON, May 24 /CNW Telbec/ - The Honourable Rona Ambrose, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and Minister of Western Economic Diversification, on behalf of the Honourable David Emerson, Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, today announced $75 million in federal funding for a strategic infrastructure project in Edmonton under the Asia-Pacific Gateway and Corridor Initiative (APGCI). The Province of Alberta submitted the project for federal funding and the Honourable Luke Ouellette, Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation
of Alberta, will oversee its completion.

"This project will help ensure that Alberta may reap the benefits of
international trade that will result from the Asia-Pacific Gateway and
Corridor Initiative," said Minister Ambrose. "Canada's New Government
continues to make tremendous progress on the Initiative, including here in
Alberta where this project will benefit the province's residents and economy."

"Today's investment will contribute significantly to Canada's
competitiveness in the rapidly changing world of global commerce, as well as benefit the communities by upgrading local infrastructure," said Minister
Emerson. "We are committed to establishing the Gateway as the link between North America and Asia, and will continue to work with the provinces and stakeholders to make it happen."

The local community will benefit from this project, which will improve
traffic flow, create jobs and improve the quality of life of local residents.
Funding will be used in Edmonton for the construction of a new interchange on Highway 2 and 41 Avenue, including a road/rail grade separation of the Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) tracks east of Highway 2, and improvements on arterial roads in the area. It will facilitate the relocation of the CPR intermodal freight terminal from a residential area in Edmonton to a new site at the southern limit of the city. It will also improve access to and from the new CPR intermodal facility, alleviate congestion and increase business opportunities for northern Alberta.

"The new interchange will improve the movement of goods between rail and transport vehicles, providing an efficient link from Alberta to the
Asia-Pacific markets," said Minister Ouellette. "The remaining funding for the project will be cost shared between the province and the City of Edmonton."

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I can't even imagine either of those two cities imagining they are even in the running to become a major Inland Port.
You would be the only one...
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 7:12 PM
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The idea is to create new shipping routes with the opening of the Port at Prince Rupert. If there was no way of getting the goods from the Port to the rest of North America then what would be the point of opening the port? The rail system is already in place with CN. And golly gosh, I guess we should consider closing down Vancouver's and Seattle's ports because of those damn mountains being in the way. Getting way to expensive to ship through those darn mountains...what a laugh!!! I think it is you who has no idea about what is about to become in terms of shipping in North America. Edmonton is underutilzed as a shipping hub as is the Alaska to Mexico corridor. The creation of new routes to handle the expected increase in traffic is key.

But, you know, everything must flow through to Winnipeg...lol

Edmonton will more than likely service Prince Rupert and more traffic from Vancouver as these ports are predicting huge increases in container traffic and Winnipeg will serve Churchill. I am not sure why you have such a problem with that but...
I never said too expnsive .. just much more expensive than Churchill. Its also not only the high cost of transporting over the mountains .. its also the distance to Asian markets. Churchill is much closer to Asia than Prince Rupert or Vancouver. But if you are a manufacturer in Chicago .. you have the choice between a closer port with shorter shipping distance to Asia or taking the goods across the continient to ship the goods over a longer route by sea and cost you a week longer in shipping costs, the business benefit would play to the shorter route.

But as I said Edmonton will become a good export container port for Prince Rupert.

An Inland Port is a great deal more than just a container management space.

Winnipeg will become a major hub for the continient .. both import and export. Feeding goods to and from major Canadian and US markets .. and linking them to Asia and Europe.
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Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
I never said too expnsive .. just much more expensive than Churchill. Its also not only the high cost of transporting over the mountains .. its also the distance to Asian markets. Churchill is much closer to Asia than Prince Rupert or Vancouver. But if you are a manufacturer in Chicago .. you have the choice between a closer port with shorter shipping distance to Asia or taking the goods across the continient to ship the goods over a longer route by sea and cost you a week longer in shipping costs, the business benefit would play to the shorter route.

But as I said Edmonton will become a good export container port for Prince Rupert.

An Inland Port is a great deal more than just a container management space.

Winnipeg will become a major hub for the continient .. both import and export. Feeding goods to and from major Canadian and US markets .. and linking them to Asia and Europe.
Some facts about the Port of Prince Rupert. And the Port of Churchill website does not even mention Asia...

The Prince Rupert Advantage - from the Port of Prince Rupert website

Shortest Land-Sea Route
Efficient Rail Access
Deepest
Safest
Closest to open waters.
Ice-Free Year Round

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Shortest Land-Sea Route
Prince Rupert links Asia to North America at the strategic entry point of the shortest existing land/sea route. At 54° North, the Port of Prince Rupert is North America's closest port to key Asian markets.

Situated 436 miles/36 hours sailing time closer to Shanghai than Vancouver and over 1,000 miles/68 hours closer than Los Angeles, the Port's strategic location puts shippers closer to their markets, meanings that ocean carriers can turn around faster and benefit from faster transit times between Asian and North American markets. This translates into an express route with efficient connections to the three NAFTA countries, saving you time and money.

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Fast and Efficient Rail Access
CN Rail operates the largest rail network in Canada and the only transcontinental network covering the entire North American continent. This international rail line follows the uncongested Northwest Transportation Corridor through the lowest rail grade in the Canadian Rockies and on to rest of North America via Chicago. With 17,821 route-miles, it is the only railway on the continent to serve ports on the Atlantic, the Pacific and the Gulf Coast.

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Best Rail Grades Ensure Smooth Delivery
Shippers can immediately access up to 80% of CN's high capacity state-of-the-art Northern Line and benefit from the seamless integration of the full CN Rail network. This network runs through the lowest-grade mountain passes in the Rocky Mountains, meaning less winter weather impact than other railways. The more efficient routing also means faster operational times and lower costs, due to flatter grades.

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Deepest, Safest, and Ice-Free
Prince Rupert has the deepest inner harbour entrance of its competitors. Ranging between 38 and 44 meters, Prince Rupert is set to handle the largest of vessels. Wharf side depth meets and exceeds the requirements for 250,000 dwt and 12,500 TEU vessels.

Assessed by a number of marine risk factors, including wind, depth, and channel width, make Prince Rupert one of the safest ports on the West Coast. Less time in Canadian pilotage waters means lower costs to shippers.

The same proximity to open ocean ensures that Prince Rupert is ice-free year round. With average winter temperatures hovering around zero degrees Celsius (32 Fahrenheit), Prince Rupert's winter temperatures compare favourably with those of Vancouver.
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 8:32 PM
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1ajs 1ajs is online now
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cprs main line goes right past the nort part of YWG.... witch conects to to simington... witch is the area were the new major port inferstructure would be going cn has a bunch of feeder lines up there also..

ad the biggest advantge winnipeg has is it has both railways........

as for churchill its actualy probly closer to edmonton cause the rail line goes to sask and then deeks back.....

though we should e looking at linking churchill and thunderbay to our inland port proposil!
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 9:04 PM
DAVEinEDMONTON DAVEinEDMONTON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
First of all CPR does not even service Edmonton is any meaningful way. A HUGE hole in Edmonton's fantasy..
I think I have proven that CPR does ,in fact, service Edmonton and is expanding its inter-modal railyards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
You obviously have little undertanding of the logistics of an Inland Port. How do you think goods are going to be taken to and from the Inland Port, MAGIC?? ... no it will require massive amounts of rail infrastructure..
I think I have also proven that adequate CN and CP rail lines exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
While it is true that it the Inland Port acts as a border point to clear goods.. the simple fact the Winnipeg deals in miltiples of more goods than Edmonton it plays completely into Inland Port. Winnipeg also has the means to manage and distribute the high volumes o goods to and from the Port. Edmonton .. well not really. Can you imagine the massive volumes of goods this port will be dealing with ... Winnipeg already has the capicty to haddle this level of business..
Edmonton's location which is less than half way between Port of Prince Rupert and Winnipeg will be it's most strategic advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Winnipeg servces multiple rail companies like the CPR, CNR, Santa Fa and Burlington North and OmniTrax .
Edmonton is served by CN and CP...should be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Winnipeg is already the hub for all goods crossing Canada... Edmonton-Not.
So what? That does not preclude Edmonton from expanding its transporation network for international trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Winnipeg has direct access to major US markets - Edmonton -Not.
Really? Do the rail lines and roads out of Edmonton head north to Nunavit first before they head south to the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Winnipeg has direct access to a sea port which is seeing its capacity expanded - Edmonton Not.. access Prince Rupert is expenssive beacuse of the mountains .. and is still days further away from Asia than is Churchill. .
The Port of Churchill is not deep enough to handle the larger ocean ships
therefore it will be restricted anyway even if global warming makes it a year round port in the not so distant future. The port is currently shipping 90% grain and not shipping a lot of goods back to fill the ships making the costs of shipping expensive since you need to pay for both trips.

At the moment, shipping from Shanghai is 5,700 mile from Port of Prince Rupert (16 days)and 13,000 to Churchill ( 44 days), a difference of about 28 days. However, if you seriously think that China or any other country in southern Asia is realistically going to ship up through Russia to use its Artic ports given the political climate in Russia you are seriously not thinking straight...I doubt that China would change its shipping routes in its industrial heartland around Shanghai to go through Russia and not its own ports on the Pacific ocean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Lets not forget the ports in Thunder Bay and Duluth. Closer than Prince Rupert is to Edmonton. .
These ports are still way farther away from Asia...sorry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Access to Asia and Europe..
See my point above about Asia...Europe yes, Asia, no

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Winnipeg is linked to the Mid-Continiental-Corridor... one of the busiest trade routes in North America - Edmonton Not..
Edmonton is linked to the Pan-a-Mex trading corridor

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Winnipeg has the only designated 24hr Airport in Western Canada by Transport Canada..
Sorry, wrong again, Edmonton's international airport operates 24 hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Winnipeg services more air Cargo companies than any other city in Canada..
That can easily change if the need is there. Given that Edmonton has better air service I would think that the air cargo companies that support Asian trade would follow the development of an inland port at YEG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Home to 4 of the largest Trucking companies in Canada.
BFD...trucks will move the goods wherever they are...

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Really its not even a close comparison .. for many reasons.
I agree.
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