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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:08 AM
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^ The reality is that only a tiny fraction of cancer patients in the building at any one time can use that small handful of spots in front of the building anyway. Losing 5 spots is not really going to fundamentally change things.
The reality is that only a small minuscule percentage of the population will ever use these bike lanes, the money spent on cyclists is disproportionate to the number of actual bike riders. More smoke and mirrors and the city kowtowing needlessly to a small but very vocal bike advocacy group!

Most cyclists want bicycle pathways not dedicated bicycle lanes on roadways!
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 1:46 PM
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^ A miniscule portion of the population cycles right now because the infrastructure flat out sucks for the most part. Projects like this will change that. HSC actually has a pretty significant proportion of cyclists working or going to school at that site... I've encountered quite a few people who cycle to HSC, and the bike lanes on Sherbrook/Maryland north of Portage are fairly well used and I suspect that a lot of that traffic is bound for HSC.

Motorists (and I am one myself) have to learn to share the roads... roads aren't the exclusive domain of cars.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 2:37 PM
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Motorists (and I am one myself) have to learn to share the roads... roads aren't the exclusive domain of cars.
Cyclists need to learn to follow the rules of the road. Red lights don't mean "everyone except cyclists stop". You don't go on the sidewalk when it is convenient. You don't squeeze past other traffic stopped at the right. You don't weave in and out of your lane between vehicles. And you come to a complete stop when you encounter a stop sign as that is what the MB Highway Traffic says. If you aren't following those, and many other rules of the road you are a bad cyclists and making everyone else that rides look bad too.
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 3:04 PM
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Cyclists need to learn to follow the rules of the road. Red lights don't mean "everyone except cyclists stop". You don't go on the sidewalk when it is convenient. You don't squeeze past other traffic stopped at the right. You don't weave in and out of your lane between vehicles. And you come to a complete stop when you encounter a stop sign as that is what the MB Highway Traffic says. If you aren't following those, and many other rules of the road you are a bad cyclists and making everyone else that rides look bad too.
Sure, some cyclists break rules as you say. Not all do. Many follow the rules quite well. Some cyclists follow the rules better than drivers! The bad cyclists give the good cyclists a bad reputation.

Not all drivers of cars follow the rules. Not all drivers come to a complete stop at a stop sign, or at a red light when turning right on red. A ridiculous percentage of drivers drive faster than the speed limit. Lots of people don't use their turn signal when changing lanes. The breaking of rules is not that much different if you are on a bike or in a car. The HUGE difference is that if you break the rules in a car, you can kill people. The chances of killing a person (other than yourself) while riding a bike are very low.

I've admonished a cyclist while I was riding; he blew through a stop when the driver to his right clearly had the right of way. Then a block later that cyclist turned off of the street, and started riding on the sidewalk.

People like that piss me off because I ride my bike mostly to the rules, similar to how a driver drives their car.

Sorry if that came off as an angry rant. My anger is not with you, but the overall situation.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 3:52 PM
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^I cycle, drive a car, and take transit in equal measure. Before dumping unnecessarily on cyclists, you should try every mode of transportation and learn to understand and respect the reality on the street. I have seen plenty of bad behavior to go around by everyone. I can't tell you how many times pedestrians jaywalk right in front of me when I'm on my bike causing me to dangerously swerve out of the way. Perhaps jaywalker should be ticketed vigorously? I have been cut off and run off the road by clueless drivers who don't pay attention or don't care. Sure, cyclists don't always follow the rules, but don't delude yourself into thinking drivers are beyond reproach. Plenty of drivers -- most really -- don't come to a full and complete stop (like you are supposed to under the Highway Traffic Act). Should these cars be vigorously ticketed for all minor driving infractions? And because of poor or non-existent cycling infrastructure, there are spots where it is impossible not to run afoul of the rules. For example, the Assiniboine biking lane deadends at Main by the CPR stations. There is nothing except a sidewalk to connect that path to the Forks. Another example: there is no clear way to connect to/from the bikelane on Spence St by UWinnipeg and Portage Ave without somehow running afoul of the rules. These situations are not created by cyclists, but cyclists must navigate them and try to survive on the roads. We all need to learn to share the road and respect everyone because we all have a right to be there and to be safe.
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 4:13 PM
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So anyway... in the hope that we can keep this thread from spiraling into an endless us-versus-them back and forth, maybe we could get back to discussing construction of cycling infrastructure in Winnipeg?

Has anyone had a chance to peruse the plans for the reconstruction of Empress Street and the Empress overpass?

http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/c...es/empress.stm

If you look at some of the storyboards, you can see plans to create dedicated, protected bike lanes that would connect the Omands Creek footbridge over the Assiniboine to Empress, Polo Park and St. Matthews (which has some cycling lanes and more under contsruction now). I spoke with my City Councilor about this project, and he said the intent is connect River Heights with St. Matthews and encourage cyclists to use that route into downtown.

Unfortunately, St. Matthews deadends at Maryland. Not sure how that would get folks downtown?

The Councilor also said there are NO plans to develop protected bike lanes on Portage Avenue. I can't figure out why we need double wide sidewalks on Portage, but there is no room for bike lanes?
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
So anyway... in the hope that we can keep this thread from spiraling into an endless us-versus-them back and forth, maybe we could get back to discussing construction of cycling infrastructure in Winnipeg?

Has anyone had a chance to peruse the plans for the reconstruction of Empress Street and the Empress overpass?

http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/c...es/empress.stm

If you look at some of the storyboards, you can see plans to create dedicated, protected bike lanes that would connect the Omands Creek footbridge over the Assiniboine to Empress, Polo Park and St. Matthews (which has some cycling lanes and more under contsruction now). I spoke with my City Councilor about this project, and he said the intent is connect River Heights with St. Matthews and encourage cyclists to use that route into downtown.

Unfortunately, St. Matthews deadends at Maryland. Not sure how that would get folks downtown?

The Councilor also said there are NO plans to develop protected bike lanes on Portage Avenue. I can't figure out why we need double wide sidewalks on Portage, but there is no room for bike lanes?
How else would we fit 6 foot wide garbage cans and bus benches placed perpendicular to the road to maximize ad space? Jeez.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 5:24 PM
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How else would we fit 6 foot wide garbage cans and bus benches placed perpendicular to the road to maximize ad space? Jeez.
Ha! So true/pathetic.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
the money spent on cyclists is disproportionate to the number of actual bike riders.
Is it though? Nobody is dropping hundreds of millions on a single piece of cycling infrastructure that will serve a small proportion of the city. Cycling infrastructure is cheap to build, cheap to maintain, and gets cars off the road, which is a benefit to drivers.

As for rewarming old hissy fits about how cyclists don't follow the rules of the road, that's a well beaten horse. Get off it. Compromise is possible and constructive, and a cyclist never killed anyone. Should we suspend all road spending because some drivers break the rules?
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
The Councilor also said there are NO plans to develop protected bike lanes on Portage Avenue. I can't figure out why we need double wide sidewalks on Portage, but there is no room for bike lanes?
That actually makes some rare sense from city hall. They really need to figure out the rapid transit route from downtown to Polo Park/Airport before they make anymore changes to the main east-west corridors.

In terms of methods of transportation, buses behave in a very predictable manner and rarely are in the wrong with the rare exception being when they block intersections to cross traffic for complete light cycles. Other non-bike vehicles on the road, as much as they may break traffic laws, mostly behave in a predictable manner. You aren't going to see a car from the back of the pack suddenly appear at the front of the pack and run through a red light. Cyclists though, and based on my travels in the city, I would say behave in an unpredictable manner in excess of 50% of the time. That is a lot of bad cyclists out there. The other group that is bad and unpredictable are pedestrians.

As someone that walks a lot on public sidewalks the #1 nuisance is bad cyclists and that clocks in even ahead of aggressive panhandlers and public intoxication in downtown. Sure "cyclists don't kill people" but a bad cyclists v pedestrian can still result in life changing injuries for the pedestrians. It's time to put the "cyclists don't kill people" rhetoric out to pasture where it belongs. Respect needs to be a mutual thing and that means following the rules regardless of what other people and other methods of travel are doing. Sure a cyclists running a red light might not kill anyway but did they take time to make sure a pedestrians with the right of way wasn't there?

Not saying anyone is flawless here but if cyclists want more respect they need to clean up their own act and demonstrate that same level of respect to other citizens. That means if your dedicated pathway ends and your choice is road or sidewalk if you want to keep riding it is never on the sidewalk. The pedestrians using that sidewalk are no more to blame for the poor design than the cyclist facing that poor choice and deserve an equal amount of respect. This summer I have had several close calls with cyclists being overly aggressive while riding on crowded sidewalks while I was a pedestrian, sometimes even on roads with dedicated bike lanes. If cyclists want the infrastructure you need to put your tires behind those demands.
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
How else would we fit 6 foot wide garbage cans and bus benches placed perpendicular to the road to maximize ad space? Jeez.
Haha! I guess the city has completely given up on the dream of grass boulevards on Portage Ave, so instead, we now have pavement that is easily 2-3 times as wide as a conventional sidewalk.
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:55 PM
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In terms of methods of transportation, buses behave in a very predictable manner and rarely are in the wrong with the rare exception being when they block intersections to cross traffic for complete light cycles. Other non-bike vehicles on the road, as much as they may break traffic laws, mostly behave in a predictable manner. You aren't going to see a car from the back of the pack suddenly appear at the front of the pack and run through a red light. Cyclists though, and based on my travels in the city, I would say behave in an unpredictable manner in excess of 50% of the time. That is a lot of bad cyclists out there. The other group that is bad and unpredictable are pedestrians.

As someone that walks a lot on public sidewalks the #1 nuisance is bad cyclists and that clocks in even ahead of aggressive panhandlers and public intoxication in downtown. Sure "cyclists don't kill people" but a bad cyclists v pedestrian can still result in life changing injuries for the pedestrians. It's time to put the "cyclists don't kill people" rhetoric out to pasture where it belongs.
Respect needs to be a mutual thing and that means following the rules regardless of what other people and other methods of travel are doing. Sure a cyclists running a red light might not kill anyway but did they take time to make sure a pedestrians with the right of way wasn't there?

Not saying anyone is flawless here but if cyclists want more respect they need to clean up their own act and demonstrate that same level of respect to other citizens. That means if your dedicated pathway ends and your choice is road or sidewalk if you want to keep riding it is never on the sidewalk. The pedestrians using that sidewalk are no more to blame for the poor design than the cyclist facing that poor choice and deserve an equal amount of respect. This summer I have had several close calls with cyclists being overly aggressive while riding on crowded sidewalks while I was a pedestrian, sometimes even on roads with dedicated bike lanes. If cyclists want the infrastructure you need to put your tires behind those demands.
Have you ever thought that you may be exaggerating this issue, Skippy? Your take on the situation with cyclists in Winnipeg does not jive with reality.

Last edited by Jets4Life; Sep 7, 2017 at 10:29 PM.
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 8:20 PM
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Making McDermot a 1 way has caused massive traffic delays between 330-5PM when the 4 Parkades and 2 surface lots file out.

/troll
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Have you ever thought that you may be exaggerating this issue, Skippy? Your take on the situation with cyclists in Winnipeg does not jive with reality.
A pedestrian on a sidewalk should never need to move out of the way of a cyclist and that has definitely not be the reality this summer in Winnipeg and it is not just me either.
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 10:14 PM
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A pedestrian on a sidewalk should never need to move out of the way of a cyclist
Agreed. I'm perfectly fine with riding on the road, but sometimes if there's a short stretch of sidewalk between two bike paths I'll ride, slowly, on the sidewalk, giving fair warning to pedestrians and going wide around them. It's the respectful thing to do, as pedestrians have the right of way on sidewalks.
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 3:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
The reality is that only a small minuscule percentage of the population will ever use these bike lanes, the money spent on cyclists is disproportionate to the number of actual bike riders. More smoke and mirrors and the city kowtowing needlessly to a small but very vocal bike advocacy group!

Most cyclists want bicycle pathways not dedicated bicycle lanes on roadways!
Going out on a limb here but I don't suppose you can actually prove any of those claims?
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 3:23 AM
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I love how there's always somebody just champing at the bit to go off on the whole "cyclists never follow the rules" thing. There's shitty cyclists and there's good ones, just like drivers. Can you imagine if every time we tried to talk about road infrastructure we got derailed because somebody needed to rant about all the people they see speeding and not using their turn signals?
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 5:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
The reality is that only a small minuscule percentage of the population will ever use these bike lanes, the money spent on cyclists is disproportionate to the number of actual bike riders. More smoke and mirrors and the city kowtowing needlessly to a small but very vocal bike advocacy group!

Most cyclists want bicycle pathways not dedicated bicycle lanes on roadways!
Total rubbish.

City of Winnipeg spends less than 1% of its annual infrastructure budget on cycling infrastructure and 2% of commuters are cyclists. Factor in what the province and Feds spend on new roads (almost nothing for bikes) and proportions have a far greater disparity.

This of course is only commuters and discounts recreational cyclists which account for a much larger percentage. 15% of winnipeggers ride a bike once a week. It's likely that when all ages are considered more people in Winnipeg own bikes than cars.

It is a ridiculous argument to tie percent of tax dollars spent to user levels. Cyclists deserve to be safe as much as a driver does. Their lives are no less valuable than yours in your car.

Also rubbish about most cyclists wanting recreational paths and not protected bike lanes to allow bike use to be an effective mode of transportation. But not worth debating. As is though, most cycling infrastructure spending currently does go to off street projects. Paint and pylons are cheap.

Last edited by trueviking; Sep 8, 2017 at 6:02 AM.
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 5:55 AM
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Cyclists need to learn to follow the rules of the road. Red lights don't mean "everyone except cyclists stop". You don't go on the sidewalk when it is convenient. You don't squeeze past other traffic stopped at the right. You don't weave in and out of your lane between vehicles. And you come to a complete stop when you encounter a stop sign as that is what the MB Highway Traffic says. If you aren't following those, and many other rules of the road you are a bad cyclists and making everyone else that rides look bad too.
Build proper cycling infrastructure that is direct, pervasive and protected and ALL of these issues go away.

It always boggles my mind when drivers complain about having to deal with cyclists and in the same breath rant about spending money to build lanes that keep them from using the same ones as cars.

Bike lanes are better for drivers.
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 7:21 AM
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80-85% of people on the forum are motorists. A great percentage of them not only hate cyclists, but want them off the road for good, and will argue any convoluted point they can make, in regards to bike lanes being "bad" for Winnipeg. I especially found it amusing when Skippy pointed out that unlike vehicles, cyclist-pedestrian collisions are almost never fatal, they could cause harmful injuries. Wait until Winnipeg gets an LRT, and people start complaining that the trains are not safe even though in nearly all fatalities, drivers and pedestrians are 100% at fault.
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