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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 2:22 PM
The Best Forumer The Best Forumer is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
700 foot demolition is not an everyday event. Super cool from a logistics and planning
perspective.
Agree. Ya'll make sure to take some pics.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 5:05 PM
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I think it will also go a lot faster than most would think. I can imagine a steel and glass structure going exponentially faster than a concrete structure or even a steel building with a masonry facade. Once a rhythm is achieved with rigging and removal, it wouldn't surprise me if this thing is down to the foundation in 4-6 months. Which is another thing I've wondered about: I would assume they are intending to reuse the foundations, it would surprise me if they did not.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 5:09 PM
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^ That's true. And the city and state are looking to move this along quickly. Also, this isn't like a developer looking for a tenant before trying to get financing, etc.

About the foundations, It will likely be something new.

I'm hoping it has a crown of sorts. If it's just a box, I prefer it at least won't top 1 Vanderbilt's crown.
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 5:18 PM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is offline
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By Point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
You should make a sign and go stand in front of those buildings and call for it then.
Maybe I should...or for all that's worth, maybe I should just watch holographic flying Rocky Mountain spotted osyters sprout forth fom my nostrils.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
There is a very specific a serious proposal to take this one down and replace it with a larger and modern office tower that can accommodate the bank's needs under one roof.
I suggested this earlier; but is it possible...even instead of doing a grander-scale 425 Park job on the existing tower as was previously suggested...to build around it, i.e using the square footage from the annex, building to 700' at the existing tower--which itself would become the new annex--and actually cantilevering the remaining 500' or whatever over it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
And it will be in an area of Midtown that the city is desperately trying to hold as the number one business district in the city, even as it provides room for expansion elsewhere. With all of the improvements already coming to the area, thanks to One Vanderbilt (which is really the first tower to move forward under rezoning, just a technicality) and the Eastside Access of the LIRR make this the logical place to add density.
No denying from me that it's a hard, yet necessary compromise for a hardliner like me. I mean the Three Sisters of Park Avenue were for me as a kid what the Three Musketeers (Times, Conde Nast and BofA) are for many today...and rightly so. But I guess if one wants to make an omelette...

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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I don't hate this building, but I think the improvements (in both the new building, and area) outweigh just trying to hold on to a building just because it's old.
Ah...Old from a standpoint of practicality for today's technological and business models; Tha's for sure. But it's status as the first true skyscraper of its type in MidTown cannot be overlooked.
And this is the saddest part of the story for me: We're looking, for all intents and purposes, at a modern-day version of the Singer Building swan-song. The only difference here is that this potential dismantling is being prompted by real-world circumstances that indeed need to be addressed.


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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
And if Chase had decided to refurbish the building again, it would likely get a new facade like some of the other buildings are doing now anyway, so it wouldn't even look like the same building, losing the point of trying to keep it.
A. Could they have recladded with newer materials yet keeping the feel of the original design? B. It bears repeating; but I am reminded of the disastruous plans to re-purpose One Astor Plaza...I dunno: apples and oranges maybe.

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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I'm looking forward to learning and hearing more about this proposal as it moves forward.
You can bet I'll be on this like something on a stick.........
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 8:16 PM
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^ There are no points to be made.


https://therealdeal.com/2018/02/22/t...avenue-report/

Tishman Speyer top candidate to develop 270 Park Avenue: report
No deal yet, but the prolific developer is considered overwhelming favorite


February 22, 2018


Quote:
The 70-story tower JPMorgan Chase wants to build at 270 Park Avenue will likely be developed by Tishman Speyer, according to a new report.

Sources told Politico New York that the bank and city officials are nearing a deal with the developer for a ground-up 2.5 million-square-foot office tower, made possible by a recent rezoning of Midtown East.

The preliminary plan has the support of both Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio.



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...alive-and-well

JPMorgan Plan for Soaring Tower Signals Midtown’s Alive and Well





By David M Levitt
February 22, 2018


Quote:
If the office district’s supremacy had been threatened by the rise of Hudson Yards on the far west side and the rebuilding of the World Trade Center to the south, JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s decision to build a taller skyscraper on the site of its current Park Avenue headquarters says it’s still New York’s power center.

The bank plans to demolish the almost-60-year-old building it owns at 270 Park Ave. and replace it with a 70-to-75-story tower that would be ready in about five years.

For companies drawn to new developments like Hudson Yards, it was less a matter of geography than the appeal of glitzy new skyscrapers -- a stark contrast with Midtown’s aging office stock, according to Marc Holliday, chief executive officer of landlord SL Green Realty Corp. JPMorgan’s commitment to Park Avenue shows the neighborhood around Grand Central Terminal is still a magnet for New York’s biggest companies, and its project will generate momentum for further development, he said.

The bank’s decision “will just solidify the importance of this area to the city,” Holliday, whose company is building the One Vanderbilt skyscraper nearby, said in an interview. “Given the opportunity to build new construction in east Midtown, it will almost always be corporations’ first choice to plant their flag.”

This is a point that keeps getting lost...

Quote:
“It’s not the West Side, it’s new construction,” Holliday said. There is demand by major corporate tenants “for new, state-of-the-art buildings that can offer things that older buildings can’t offer, even when they’re redeveloped.”
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Last edited by NYguy; Feb 23, 2018 at 1:44 AM.
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  #46  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 8:43 PM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is offline
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Hmm...

From the looks of it in that pic, it has seen better days.
But life goes on within us/without us........

@Guy; This very well could be the spire-topped dominant tower you're looking for. Build something at 1,200' even and add something as tall as the WTC1 spire (408') and voila.
I'm cautiously assuming no height limit in the immediate area.

BTW, YIMBY is reporting that as a controlled demo, it will be the largest such undertaking ever:

From today:

https://newyorkyimby.com/2018/02/270...d-history.html
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  #47  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 9:48 PM
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Just occurred to me, where is JP Morgan going to put its 6000 employees that currently occupy 270 Park while the demo/new construction is going on?

The plan for finding a space for 5 years and moving all those employees there, and back to the new 270 Park again would be quite the logistical nightmare I would think
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Prezrezc View Post
Hmm...

BTW, YIMBY is reporting that as a controlled demo, it will be the largest such undertaking ever:

From today:

https://newyorkyimby.com/2018/02/270...d-history.html
I love that Simcity 4 model. I found the artist's website where he posted it yesterday while searching for news about this.
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  #49  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 10:24 PM
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackster99 View Post
Just occurred to me, where is JP Morgan going to put its 6000 employees that currently occupy 270 Park while the demo/new construction is going on?

The plan for finding a space for 5 years and moving all those employees there, and back to the new 270 Park again would be quite the logistical nightmare I would think
I posed same question earlier too. I know JP scatters its employees, Brooklyn being one point, but 6000 is quite a lot. There's also 28 Liberty, but I'd imagine the occupancy on that tower is quite full.

But all in all, given the amount of folks working there, seems like they want this to happen and will go full speed. 5 years is a long time in real estate ( a lot can happen ), but so long as the time table is consistent, no complaints from me.
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 10:59 PM
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I don’t understand the eagerness for this tower to come down. Yeah, it’s a box, but it’s a damn nice box—there are a pretty decent number of smaller, uglier buildings of a similar vintage, on similarly large sites, in the immediate area that it seems would be much better suited for a potential supertall. Is it just because Chase already owns the land under this one? Is it really more expensive for them to buy another site than it is to knock down a 700’ tower sitting directly above an active railroad yard?
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 11:04 PM
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^^^^^

Could be due to the air rights that can be offered at this location (surrounding area).


Quote:
The cathedral has roughly 1 million square feet of air rights on its block between Fifth and Madison avenues and East 50th and East 51st streets. The Archdiocese has more leeway to sell the development rights following the rezoning.
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  #53  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I posed same question earlier too. I know JP scatters its employees, Brooklyn being one point, but 6000 is quite a lot. There's also 28 Liberty, but I'd imagine the occupancy on that tower is quite full.

But all in all, given the amount of folks working there, seems like they want this to happen and will go full speed. 5 years is a long time in real estate ( a lot can happen ), but so long as the time table is consistent, no complaints from me.
390 Madison, 383 Madison, 277 Park Avenue.
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  #54  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 1:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackster99 View Post
Just occurred to me, where is JP Morgan going to put its 6000 employees that currently occupy 270 Park while the demo/new construction is going on?
They'll stay in the area.

Quote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/n...dquarters.html

Chase is expected to begin demolition of the building at 270 Park early next year, with the new tower set to open five years later. Chase has been quietly negotiating leases at nearby buildings — 237, 245 and 277 Park Avenue, as well as 390 Madison Avenue — for workers in the existing building, according to an executive who has been briefed on the bank’s plan but was not authorized to discuss it publicly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyllisJerry71 View Post
I don’t understand the eagerness for this tower to come down. Yeah, it’s a box, but it’s a damn nice box—there are a pretty decent number of smaller, uglier buildings of a similar vintage, on similarly large sites, in the immediate area that it seems would be much better suited for a potential supertall. Is it just because Chase already owns the land under this one? Is it really more expensive for them to buy another site than it is to knock down a 700’ tower sitting directly above an active railroad yard?
Yes. And it's not as if Manhattan is brimming with sites, or that Chase has not tried other options.

But let's be clear. Buildings, though they may be nice to look at, aren't there for the sole pleasure of viewing - they serve a purpose. This one clearly doesn't, and hasn't for quite some time. It doesn't matter that the replacement will be a "supertall" tower, but that the replacement is adequate for current needs. If Chase says it isn't, then it isn't. Or do we really think they're going to go through with the prospect of tearing down a 700 ft building just for the hell of it?

Furthermore, I'm less concerned with some misguided notions on "preserving" a building from another era as if the city is some living museum, than I am about the health of the City and the life of the business district that many people would seem content to let continue it's slow death.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...alive-and-well

Quote:
JPMorgan’s announcement comes after a few years in which several high-profile financial companies have left Midtown for Hudson Yards and the Financial District. BlackRock Inc., the world’s largest asset manager, will relocate from Midtown East to 50 Hudson Yards, and buyout firm KKR & Co. is buying offices at 30 Hudson Yards, leaving behind 9 West 57th St., one of Manhattan’s most prestigious office addresses. JPMorgan itself was in negotiations in 2014 to move to Hudson Yards, talks that fell apart.

It’s an exaggeration to say those moves suggest that companies are abandoning Midtown, according to Holliday. It just means they like new buildings.

About 77 percent of Manhattan’s 400 million square feet of offices was built before 1980, according to Richard Persichetti, U.S. Northeast research director for brokerage Cushman & Wakefield.


https://ny.curbed.com/2014/1/30/1014...t-after-tenant

An Un-Rezoned Midtown East Is Losing Tenant After Tenant



https://nypost.com/2016/11/29/compan...ards-district/

Companies bolting East Midtown for the Hudson Yards district



https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news...on-yards-78246

Pfizer Leaving Midtown For Tishman Speyer's Hudson Yards Spiral



https://www.institutionalinvestor.co...town-manhattan

Will Hudson Yards Decimate Midtown Manhattan?




This is a big win for New York, and east Midtown. It's why the mayor and the governor are so eager to make this happen. They know what it's about.
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  #55  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 2:30 AM
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I'm getting weary of people saying this building isn't functioning, or it's obsolete. That isn't the issue. This is a LEED platinum building, renovated in 2012. It's more functional then just about any pre-war office building- and yet we love all of those.

No the issue is Chase needs much more space then they have and as a bank Chase wants larger trading floors. This building would be perfectly suitable for numerous other tenants as 277 Park across the street demonstrates. But chase, in lieu of moving to another site, will be using land they've already got (makes sense). Jamie Dimon also seems to want a new shiny trophy headquarters (Not unreasonable).

Let's note this is currently the 2nd tallest building on Park Avenue, after 432 and excluding Metlife. There's a lot of crap on park avenue and this happens to be one of the pretty ones, it's a shame. Now I don't think this building is worth holding up the construction of a new 1,200' foot building, but this is one I always really admired. I just hope some of the ugly stuff actually goes too.



Quote:
The Largest LEED Platinum Renovation, Ever, Is Midtown’s 270 Park Avenue

by Stephen Del Percio on January 31, 2012 in 270 Park Avenue, LEED Commentary, LEED-NC, Manhattan, Midtown, New York City

270 Park Avenue – the headquarters of JPMorgan Chase, between East 47th and 48th Streets in Midtown – recently became the largest renovation project to date to earn a LEED Platinum rating from USGBC. The renovation (which earned the designation under LEED for New Construction Version 2.2) should cut 270 Park’s overall energy consumption in half and save over one million gallons of water annually.

The renovation was performed while the building remained in operation. In order to minimize disruptions to employees and building systems, 400 construction workers completed the project in phases while working on up to ten floors simultaneously. Specific design features that supported the project’s LEED Platinum application included:

New building systems to improve energy efficiency, including heating and air conditioning equipment; lighting with occupancy sensors and daylight dimming controls; Energy Star kitchen appliances, computers and monitors; and new building insulation and window tint to reduce glare, heat gain and air conditioning load.
A 54,000-gallon basement tank that collects rain water from drains on the roof and plaza, which is stored and filtered, and then used in landscaping and to flush toilets in the lower part of the building, which should save more than 1 million gallons of water a year. Combined with other plumbing upgrades the building will use half as much water as pre-renovation.
Nearly 16,500 square feet of new landscaping, including green roofs, that feature low-maintenance plants to help lower building temperatures in the summer and reduce storm water runoff.
Reusing over 99 percent of the original building during the renovation and recycling more than 85 percent of construction waste including 990,000 square feet of carpeting. And over 12,000 tons of construction waste was diverted from landfills.
New floor designs and layout give 85 percent of employees natural daylight at their desks, with more than 92 percent having exterior views.
266 bicycle racks.
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  #56  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 2:39 AM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is offline
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I guess I could reiterate the "omelette-egg" thing (which, come to think of it, I just did roundaboutly), but it applies to this whole unfolding scenario.

Happy Trails, you ol' SOM crackerbox, ya........
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  #57  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 4:20 AM
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The classic definition of a skyscraper still applies: "a machine to make the land pay."

It'll pay a lot better with a full demo and re-build
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  #58  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 4:43 AM
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Dismantling a 700 foot tall high rise is easier then one might think, especially if its steel structure (which I'm assuming this one is) due to high capacity tower cranes...

or you could do it like they do in Tokyo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97QqO2Mdi88 (There's some other cool info in that video too)
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  #59  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
This is gonna totally short dick Bear Stearns next door. Strategy?
Bear Stearns doesn’t exist anymore. It’s JPMorgan and has been for a decade.
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  #60  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 12:21 PM
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^
"Short dick" as a verb......Hoot, that.
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