Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[jtrent77]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

What the hell is wrong with all you people? Do you people never drive a car so your attitude is eff those who do and let's screw the lower income people over more by supporting increase taxes in EVERYTHING? what do you people do for a living that you're so financially steady that tax increases doesn't even matter? You know, not everyone has their dream job and maybe most people live from paycheck to paycheck just barely getting by. But I guess as long as you're making plenty then fuck the poor.
Here's a thought, how about UTA PAYS for their own projects. ( Tickets sales, advertisement space, ect ) If they can't afford it then maybe they should slow it down a bit.
Why the hell would you want to pay MORE in gas when we already are getting raped by greedy big oil. I for one do not want to pay more for gas when gas is already a rip off.

Quit taking it so personal dude, no one attacked you. Secondly the USA has some of the cheapest gas compared to other developed countries. Other people get by just not using as much gas, such as taking public transit, walking, carpooling, or moving closer to their jobs.

[stayinginformed]

I also think that the gas tax should be higher. Full disclosure, I am not rich by any sense of the word (30K/year), my wife and I have one car, and I take the bus to work and back home every day.

The increase of the gas tax should go toward more public transportation so that there are less people using gas (this might alleviate gas prices a bit), and into research and development toward a goal of higher efficiency for cars and alternative fuel sources that are more sustainable.

[SLCdude]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

we ALL pay more then we should win gas.

The federal government HEAVILY subsidizes gasoline. The reason gas costs so little at the pump is because the government uses our tax dollars towards making it cheap. If we really want to become independent of foreign oil, the answer is to use less -not to drill more- and removing subsidies and taxing more would do wonders for cities and the planet. We are not entitled to cheap gasoline. I say raise the pricing of gas!

[Scraperdude801]

Originally Posted by SLCdude

The federal government HEAVILY subsidizes gasoline. The reason gas costs so little at the pump is because the government uses our tax dollars towards making it cheap. If we really want to become independent of foreign oil, the answer is to use less -not to drill more- and removing subsidies and taxing more would do wonders for cities and the planet. We are not entitled to cheap gasoline. I say raise the pricing of gas!

Agreed. Furthermore, I would like to raise a family in Utah, but if the air quality remains/progresses to unhealthy and dangerous levels I will be leaving this valley and taking my money with me (as I'm sure many others would do so as well). Salt Lake is blessed to lie nestled between its beautiful mountain ranges: it needs to respect that beauty. We can't continue to develop like L.A., we don't have ocean breezes to carry our pollution off to unknown lands; our lungs are the victim of urban sprawl/auto-mobile centered development. We need to stop building outward and pumping money into freeways; we need to build vertically, and pump our transportation dollars into mass transit, bike/segway friendly commuter paths, and pedestrian friendly self-sufficient neighborhoods. Stop subsidizing gas: subsidize healthy communities!

[StevenF]

In my mind, taxing gas is one of the true quality reasons for taxing. If you use more gas, drive more, you are paying for the streets and freeways you drive on. I personally have no problem paying that tax, as I enjoy the use of my car.

[scottharding]

While the subject of taxes is a tough one, because there can be no doubt that the shrinking middle class carries the burden of the poor and the rich, and all increased taxes really just in increase the burden on the middle class worker, one thing that I would hope is becoming encouraged by gas prices is that people attempt to live closer to where they work. I really feel that the notion of buying a brand spanking new house on the fringes of development and then driving 30 miles to work dies a horrific death. If you work in the city, live in the city. And I don't mean a downtown luxury condo that would break the average person's bank. There are lots of great, charming houses within city limits that are close to public transit, or, get this! maybe even close to places of business. Imagine walking to work!
Sorry, I'm babbling. But that is one side-affect of rising gas prices that I think is a huge plus. This country has become way to used to driving everywhere. We need to return a bit to the age before the highway.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by scottharding

While the subject of taxes is a tough one, because there can be no doubt that the shrinking middle class carries the burden of the poor and the rich, and all increased taxes really just in increase the burden on the middle class worker, one thing that I would hope is becoming encouraged by gas prices is that people attempt to live closer to where they work. I really feel that the notion of buying a brand spanking new house on the fringes of development and then driving 30 miles to work dies a horrific death. If you work in the city, live in the city. And I don't mean a downtown luxury condo that would break the average person's bank. There are lots of great, charming houses within city limits that are close to public transit, or, get this! maybe even close to places of business. Imagine walking to work!
Sorry, I'm babbling. But that is one side-affect of rising gas prices that I think is a huge plus. This country has become way to used to driving everywhere. We need to return a bit to the age before the highway.

!!! YES !!!

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by jtrent77

Quit taking it so personal dude, no one attacked you. Secondly the USA has some of the cheapest gas compared to other developed countries. Other people get by just not using as much gas, such as taking public transit, walking, carpooling, or moving closer to their jobs.

Ok, First of all Im not taking anything personal, I just dont want to pay higher taxes. And paying higher taxes does nothing but hurt the middle and lower class. So I will speak on their behalf since everybody else is for higher taxes. 2nd, just because it cost more in other countries doesnt mean we need to match them. Gas is a rip off no matter if its 3.00 pg or 10.00 pg. 3rd I thought about other ways to get to or from work. Lets go down that list....

Bus or Trax..........do they run after midnight since I dont get off work til 3:30 am? Nope. Wish they would.
Walking......west jordan to the airport, that would be a long walk.
Carpooling......The only person I could think of who lives near by doesnt work the same hours as me.
Moving closer.......Most likely what Im going to have to do. Theres alot of areas near the airport that Im not too sure if I want to raise my kids in. Also dont really want to be the only english speaking person on my street. Not a big fan of Rose park, Glendale and west valley. But I might be force to live in the ghetto if gas prices keep going up. ( Taxes or oil greed. )

Downtown would be a awesome place to live, but not sure if that really fixs with where we're at during this time. In other words, somthing under 200k have our own walls, more then two bedrooms and a backyard for the kids would be a plus. Dont think downtown has what Im looking for, but I could be wrong.

So anyways there you. I dont surport higher taxes.

[Future Mayor]

:previous. There are homes scattered all throughout the Liberty Park - Sugarhouse area that are below 200k, two year ago? No, but now? Yes. It's not right on a transit line, but it's much closer to the airport. So there are options out there.

One thing that many people don't take into consideration, and no I'm not singling you out Projects, this is a general statement of the burb. Often time people looking to move to places like Eagle Mtn, they simply look at the price of the home while not taking into account other factors such as commute time, time away from family, price of gas and other vehicle related expenses. Often times that extra expense of gas and vehicle expenses, if reduced, could be used to purchase a slightly more expensive home closer to the city/place of employment.

Of course so many want the new house in the burbs with the gigantic yard and three car garage. It's not until things like gas and possibly the implementation of toll roads, becomes prohibitive that the general public will look to change their beliefs. People all across the world and in many cities in this country raise kids in the city.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by StevenF

In my mind, taxing gas is one of the true quality reasons for taxing. If you use more gas, drive more, you are paying for the streets and freeways you drive on. I personally have no problem paying that tax, as I enjoy the use of my car.

Yup.

[UTPlanner]

One other thing to consider is that because cars are so much more efficient in 2012, on a per mile basis there is a lot less gas being purchased. UDOT has higher traffic counts on its roadways and less gas being purchased. This obviously equates to less tax dollars being received.

This is one reason why the Legislature was forced to borrow a billion dollars to rebuild I-15 in Utah County. They, along with Wasatch Front Regional Council, are very concerned about how they will fund future highway and transit projects in the future.

[Future Mayor]

One way to consider would be impact fees. I know impact fees are always a fight between municipalities and developers, however maybe there needs to be a UDOT/UTA impact fee on new development. Most municipalities require new developments to make improvments to local streets, to the amount that the new development will impact existing infrastructure, but what if every building built included a Highway/Transit impact fee.

This would most likely have to be something that happened at the state level. It could possibly be distance based as well as on the number of units being built. Obviously they don't need to require a huge fee for someone building a single home in Goshen, but a new 400 home development in Eagle Mtn. Hell Yes.

The issue is, that the Utah legislature has always been very pro developer, so it might be a fight.

You make a very good point UT Planner about efficiency. Improving technologies to clean technologies on cars can have an impact on cleaning up the air, but that only reduces the income to UDOT even more. Maybe each vehicle needs an impact fee at purchase and renewal time. Even if they run clean, they still impact the road surface, but aren't contributing to the building and maintainance.

Yes owning a home and a car, and having the freedom to do so is something that every citizen of our country should have the choice to do, but every action and privelage comes with responsibilities. If someone chooses to live in Eagle Mtn and commute to downtown SLC, you have that right, but the state has the right to be able to build and maintain roads to serve your rights, and to me an impact fee on vehicles and homes doesn't seem to outrageous.

[Scraperdude801]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Downtown would be a awesome place to live, but not sure if that really fixs with where we're at during this time. In other words, somthing under 200k have our own walls, more then two bedrooms and a backyard for the kids would be a plus. Dont think downtown has what Im looking for, but I could be wrong.

So anyways there you. I dont surport higher taxes.

Liberty Park/Trolley area are littered with homes that meet this requirement. They're safe, have yards, own walls, historic charm, Liberty Park!, and one hell of a shorter commute than West Jordan does. You can even get into homes in the 175k region these days if you look west of Liberty Park & E of State. I know this, because my wife and I are currently looking for a home to purchase when our lease is up.

Becker has made a note to work with UTA to offer a Traxx OWL service on the weekend. While OWL service is weekend only, it is a step towards later service all around. My logic tells me that when UTA finally branches into late-night/early-morning transit service, it will most likely be for the areas that are densely populated or that have legitimate reasons for late-night transportation in order to ensure ridership, (areas such as the Airport, DT, & the U).

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by SLCdude

The federal government HEAVILY subsidizes gasoline. The reason gas costs so little at the pump is because the government uses our tax dollars towards making it cheap. If we really want to become independent of foreign oil, the answer is to use less -not to drill more- and removing subsidies and taxing more would do wonders for cities and the planet. We are not entitled to cheap gasoline. I say raise the pricing of gas!

And then FORCE everybody to walk everywhere since nobody can afford gas anymore. Great idea, that won't hurt our economy at all. They already are raising the price of gas. It went up 10 cents over night and I think $4 per gallon is once again just around the corner. And you're ok with that. People should'nt have to be force to choose between buying food for the week or paying gas. This is whats screwed up here. Gas goes up and then EVERYTHING goes up. And there's really no reason for Gas to go up. Sure big oil can make up all the bullshit excuses they want, but bottom line it just comes down to a group of powerful greedy people who can get away with anything. It's shameful that while these jerks can go enjoy a nice steak dinner at Ruth Chris every-night, the lower class and even middle class families have to go apply for food stamps and settle for cheap food just to get by.
I'm not trying to sound like an ass here, but I really don't get why so many are ok with HIGHER gas prices. You guys don't really believe that if gas goes up to say $5 per gallon that everybody will stop using their cars and hop on Trax do you? Because guess what?..........Trax prices will go up as well. Point is cars will ALWAYS be around. The answer isn't lets jack up the price so high that it forces everybody to ride UTA, but rather lets find other means of foul that doesn't pollute and more affordable for the lower class. But believe me I wish we could use something else other then gas to foul our cars.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

Liberty Park/Trolley area are littered with homes that meet this requirement. They're safe, have yards, own walls, historic charm, Liberty Park!, and one hell of a shorter commute than West Jordan does. You can even get into homes in the 175k region these days if you look west of Liberty Park & E of State. I know this, because my wife and I are currently looking for a home to purchase when our lease is up.

Becker has made a note to work with UTA to offer a Traxx OWL service on the weekend. While OWL service is weekend only, it is a step towards later service all around. My logic tells me that when UTA finally branches into late-night/early-morning transit service, it will most likely be for the areas that are densely populated or that have legitimate reasons for late-night transportation in order to ensure ridership, (areas such as the Airport, DT, & the U).

Thanks, I'll look into that. Glad to hear UTA are looking into later services. I know.......my hours suck.

[jtrent77]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

And then FORCE everybody to walk everywhere since nobody can afford gas anymore. Great idea, that won't hurt our economy at all. They already are raising the price of gas. It went up 10 cents over night and I think $4 per gallon is once again just around the corner. And you're ok with that. People should'nt have to be force to choose between buying food for the week or paying gas. This is whats screwed up here. Gas goes up and then EVERYTHING goes up. And there's really no reason for Gas to go up. Sure big oil can make up all the bullshit excuses they want, but bottom line it just comes down to a group of powerful greedy people who can get away with anything. It's shameful that while these jerks can go enjoy a nice steak dinner at Ruth Chris every-night, the lower class and even middle class families have to go apply for food stamps and settle for cheap food just to get by.
I'm not trying to sound like an ass here, but I really don't get why so many are ok with HIGHER gas prices. You guys don't really believe that if gas goes up to say $5 per gallon that everybody will stop using their cars and hop on Trax do you? Because guess what?..........Trax prices will go up as well. Point is cars will ALWAYS be around. The answer isn't lets jack up the price so high that it forces everybody to ride UTA, but rather lets find other means of foul that doesn't pollute and more affordable for the lower class. But believe me I wish we could use something else other then gas to foul our cars.

It's the constant economic principle of supply and demand, and as long as people are buying gas, the price will only go up or remain the same. Be glad you don't live in Europe:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinio...iref=allsearch

[UTAZLoVer]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

And then FORCE everybody to walk everywhere since nobody can afford gas anymore. Great idea, that won't hurt our economy at all. They already are raising the price of gas. It went up 10 cents over night and I think $4 per gallon is once again just around the corner. And you're ok with that. People should'nt have to be force to choose between buying food for the week or paying gas. This is whats screwed up here. Gas goes up and then EVERYTHING goes up. And there's really no reason for Gas to go up. Sure big oil can make up all the bullshit excuses they want, but bottom line it just comes down to a group of powerful greedy people who can get away with anything. It's shameful that while these jerks can go enjoy a nice steak dinner at Ruth Chris every-night, the lower class and even middle class families have to go apply for food stamps and settle for cheap food just to get by.
I'm not trying to sound like an ass here, but I really don't get why so many are ok with HIGHER gas prices. You guys don't really believe that if gas goes up to say $5 per gallon that everybody will stop using their cars and hop on Trax do you? Because guess what?..........Trax prices will go up as well. Point is cars will ALWAYS be around. The answer isn't lets jack up the price so high that it forces everybody to ride UTA, but rather lets find other means of foul that doesn't pollute and more affordable for the lower class. But believe me I wish we could use something else other then gas to foul our cars.

There are MANY good reasons gas should be (and is) going up. We all just need to realize that $5 per gallon (or more) is ABSOLUTELY going to become the new norm in the next 5 years - not matter who is in the White House. If that is something that will be difficult for certain people to afford, it would be prudent for them to assess where their money currently goes and make cuts where they can to prepare or a lot of people are going to be caught off guard. That's just where things are going, and oddly enough it really has very little to do with politics in this country and mostly to do with the free market.

[CountyLemonade]

Expensive gas will beget more people using transit, and thus transit service will increase. That I'm looking forward to. Definitely not looking toward all the residual price increases that come from expensive gasoline though—like groceries. :/

[Scraperdude801]

I am all for mass transit, bike/segway paths, and pedestrian centered communities, but I'm also aware the automobile isn't going to disappear from the transportation equation (<< ha --that rhymes!). I have to honest, I am surprised that gas fueled cars are still the most predominantly produced when we have other technologies (like electric). There needs to be more pressure placed on car manufacturers to produce AFFORDABLE electric cars. I mean, we bailed them out, they should return the favor and stop selling us gas cars that get slightly better mileage just so they can make more of a profit. If car manufacturers switched their infrastructure to be more focused on electric cars, the cost of manufacturing them would go down, and then so would the price the consumer pays.

[Scraperdude801]

Originally Posted by CountyLemonade

Expensive gas will beget more people using transit, and thus transit service will increase. That I'm looking forward to. Definitely not looking toward all the residual price increases that come from expensive gasoline though—like groceries. :/

That's why Salt Lake needs to continue to embrace local produce: it's fresher, tastes better, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg to transport it.