HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #3061  
Old Posted May 24, 2017, 5:08 PM
jmt18325's Avatar
jmt18325 jmt18325 is online now
Heart of the Continent
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 6,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Productivity is just the GDP divided by hours worked or similar. GDP per capita doesn't account for the fact that people work more in some places than others; it seems strictly worse to me as an economic indicator.
Well in both cases we're among the top in the world. That's nothing to be ashamed of, even if we can always do better.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3062  
Old Posted May 24, 2017, 6:09 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDgE View Post
I'm not sure about that, there is plenty of construction going on here despite the economy. If you saw all the cranes dotting the skyline right now you would wonder what downturn to be honest. Not to say some people are not moving around. It just seems rather anecdotal and hyperbolic to say every Alberta plate is some refugee seeking asylum. Anyway, carry on.
I'm not sure why posters get defensive about this. It's no secret Alberta's economy is in the dumps right now. Why wouldn't residents be looking elsewhere for work? That's the way a free labour market works.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3063  
Old Posted May 24, 2017, 8:34 PM
khabibulin khabibulin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I'm not sure why posters get defensive about this. It's no secret Alberta's economy is in the dumps right now. Why wouldn't residents be looking elsewhere for work? That's the way a free labour market works.
Seriously? Did you even read the article you attached?

Of course, the oil shock was massive. In 2014, when oil could fetch over $100 (U.S.) a barrel, Alberta’s economy produced $373-billion worth of final goods and services. By 2016, it produced $310-billion – down 17 per cent, according to the Conference Board of Canada. Toss in the forgone growth had oil prices remained high, and there’s roughly $100-billion less in 2016 to go around. Let that sink in.

That’s the bad news. Here’s the good: At $73,000 a person, the economy is still stronger than the national average ($54,700) or the next strongest economy of Saskatchewan ($66,700). So at its worst, Alberta’s economy was 10 per cent larger per person than the second-place province, and 30 per cent larger than the Canadian average.

This matters for individuals. In March of this year, 67 per cent of working-age Albertans were employed – 54.5 per cent in full-time jobs – and earned an average of $1,100 a week. These figures are higher than those of any other province. Even adjusting for cost-of-living differences and our young population, Alberta remains at or near the top.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3064  
Old Posted May 25, 2017, 8:26 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Another great post taking place from the best place on earth!
Posts: 1,147
Quote:
Liberal hydro plan to cost $45B and save electricity ratepayers $24B: watchdog
Quote:
News
Liberal hydro plan to cost $45B and save electricity ratepayers $24B: watchdog
The Canadian Press 13 hours ago
Reactions Like Reblog on Tumblr Share Tweet Email

TORONTO — Ontarians will be paying a net $21 billion over the next three decades to get short-term savings under the Liberal government's hydro plan, which is designed to make the province's bottom line look better, two watchdogs said Wednesday.

Both the financial accountability officer and the auditor general weighed in on the plan to lower hydro rates, which have roughly doubled over the last decade.

A report from the budget watchdog found that the government will spend $45 billion over the life of its hydro plan to save people $24 billion on their bills over the next approximately 30 years.

The $45 billion, however, is mostly the cost of funding an eight-per-cent rebate that took effect in January and assumes balanced budgets. If the government has to fund that rebate through debt, the cost could soar up to $93 billion, the report said.

Premier Kathleen Wynne promised to cut hydro bills in the province after widespread anger over rising costs helped send her approval ratings to record lows. Under the government's plan, Ontarians will see lowered hydro bills for the next 10 years, but will then pay higher costs for the following 20 years.

Legislation to cut electricity bills by 17 per cent on average — on top of the eight-per-cent rebate — is currently before the House and has to pass before the summer break begins June 1 if relief is to be delivered under the timeline the Liberals promised.

The hydro plan will lower time-of-use rates by removing from bills a portion of the global adjustment, a charge consumers pay for above-market rates to power producers. For the next 10 years, a new entity overseen by Ontario Power Generation will take on debt to pay that difference.

That means there will be no impact on Ontario's net debt — currently at about $312 billion — or annual surplus/deficit, said Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk. The auditor told a committee studying the hydro legislation Wednesday that it "sets a dangerous precedent."

"There are a lot of people investing a lot of time and money to set this up, structured in such a way that it doesn't affect bottom line," she said.

Energy Minister Glenn Thibeault has said OPG has expertise in managing hydro-related debt.

The OPG Trust is financing 55 per cent of that borrowing, with the province financing the rest. But the OPG Trust borrows at an average rate of 5.4 per cent, compared to the province's 4.5 per cent, the FAO noted. So if the government took on all of the refinancing, ratepayers could save $4 billion, the FAO concluded.

In light of those potential savings, NDP critic Peter Tabuns called the government's financing structure "puzzling."

"Why it's being set up in the special purpose vehicle, this little subsidiary of OPG is hard to understand," he said. "It may make provincial debt look better because it's been moved off (the government books), but that can be the only advantage. It's going to cost us a lot of money."

The Liberals have said after the initial cut to bills this year, rate increases will be held to inflation for the next four years. After that, the average bill will rise about 6.8 per cent a year until 2028, the FAO projected.

At that point, ratepayers will have to start paying back debt that will be accumulated in order to finance lower rates for the first decade. From then on, bills will be about four per cent higher than they would have been without the Liberal plan, Financial Accountability Officer Stephen LeClair said.

The cost of paying back that debt with interest — which the government has said will be up to $28 billion — will go back onto ratepayers' bills for about 20 years starting in 2028 as a "Clean Energy Adjustment."

The FAO estimated the cost of interest on that debt will be $21 billion, assuming a five-per-cent weighted average interest rate. If that rises to six per cent, ratepayers will end up paying $30 billion, LeClair projected.

Electricity bills in the province have roughly doubled in the last decade, due in part to green energy initiatives, and the government has said the goal of its hydro plan is to better spread out those costs.

"We've always said that the proposed Fair Hydro Plan will cost more over the long-term, but it will share the costs of our investments more fairly over a longer period of time, and lower bills by 25 per cent on average starting this summer," Thibeault said in a statement.

The FAO's $21-billion projection is in line with the government's estimates, Thibeault said, dismissing the FAO's "outlier scenarios" as extremely unlikely.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/ontario-bu...080004101.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3065  
Old Posted May 29, 2017, 8:37 PM
ainvan ainvan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto/Vancouver
Posts: 793
Ontario regaining status as economic engine for Canada

Province's economy is forecast to lead country in growth, but wages fail to keep pace with inflation

Quote:
Ontario's economy is surging after years of lagging behind the oil-producing provinces.

Don't believe it? There's plenty of evidence.

Canada's big banks are forecasting that Ontario will lead the country in economic growth this year or be within a hair of the top of the pack. Unemployment sits at its lowest level in 16 years. And that economic success is being felt across a range of sectors, including manufacturing, real estate, finance and technology.

Corporate profits in Ontario are up significantly. You can tell by the province's corporate tax revenue, which jumped a whopping 16.8 per cent last year, and 19.6 per cent in 2015.

Ontario businesses surveyed by the Bank of Canada say sales are up and they're looking to invest in new equipment and hire additional staff.

The boom is centred on the Greater Toronto Area, forecast this week by the Conference Board of Canada to lead the country's metropolitan areas in 2017 with a 2.6 per cent increase in the gross domestic product. Other parts of the province are doing well too, particularly Windsor, the Ottawa region and the Kitchener-Cambridge-Guelph triangle.

"Through 2019, Ontario households will reap the benefits of a robust business sector," the conference board's latest report says. "With the labour market looking good, healthy consumer spending across all spending categories is expected over the near term."

RBC senior economist Robert Hogue described this province as having "quite a vibrant" economy.

"The Ontario economy has been, I think, quite impressive at adapting, at adjusting, and at continuing to generate jobs," Hogue said in an interview with CBC Toronto last week.

"The Ontario economy has been quite strong over the last couple of years," said Dina Ignjatovic of TD Economics in another interview. "We expect to see another very strong year in 2017."

But if you're a typical Ontario worker, you're not necessarily feeling as rosy about your own personal economy as the provincial economic figures would indicate.

That's because wages aren't growing at anywhere near the pace of the gross domestic product (GDP). Statistics Canada figures show the average weekly earnings of Ontarians grew just 1.1 per cent in 2016. That's below inflation so, on average, the typical person took a pay cut last year.

CBC
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3066  
Old Posted May 29, 2017, 10:31 PM
shreddog shreddog is offline
Beer me Captain
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In a Van down by the river
Posts: 3,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainvan View Post
Ontario regaining status as economic engine for Canada

Province's economy is forecast to lead country in growth, but wages fail to keep pace with inflation
I think someone from the CBC needs to go back to remedial reading class - though I know you were just quoting the article.

According to the Actual Conference Board report (not a CBC news article), Ontario is forecast to have medium growth, and Alberta/Saskatchewan are expected to lead provincial growth.
Quote:
This quarterly economic forecast provides highlights of the Provincial Outlook report, which presents the short-term outlook for Canada's provinces.

Highlights
Alberta will have the fastest growing provincial economy this year, with real GDP forecast to increase by 3.3 per cent.

Ontario’s economy will continue to perform well, but it is forecast to lose some speed and grow by 2.3 per cent in 2017
Not sure why the CBC presented the story the way they did
__________________
It really is later than you think!

Do something about your future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3067  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 12:10 AM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by khabibulin View Post
Seriously? Did you even read the article you attached?

Of course, the oil shock was massive. In 2014, when oil could fetch over $100 (U.S.) a barrel, Alberta’s economy produced $373-billion worth of final goods and services. By 2016, it produced $310-billion – down 17 per cent, according to the Conference Board of Canada. Toss in the forgone growth had oil prices remained high, and there’s roughly $100-billion less in 2016 to go around. Let that sink in.

That’s the bad news. Here’s the good: At $73,000 a person, the economy is still stronger than the national average ($54,700) or the next strongest economy of Saskatchewan ($66,700). So at its worst, Alberta’s economy was 10 per cent larger per person than the second-place province, and 30 per cent larger than the Canadian average.

This matters for individuals. In March of this year, 67 per cent of working-age Albertans were employed – 54.5 per cent in full-time jobs – and earned an average of $1,100 a week. These figures are higher than those of any other province. Even adjusting for cost-of-living differences and our young population, Alberta remains at or near the top.
Again, don't get why Albertans get so defensive about this. Weird.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3068  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 1:16 AM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Again, don't get why Albertans get so defensive about this. Weird.
I don't get why some non-Albertans keep spreading lies about the state of the AB economy. Weird.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3069  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 1:59 AM
SaskScraper's Avatar
SaskScraper SaskScraper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saskatoon/London
Posts: 1,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainvan
Ontario regaining status as economic engine for Canada

Province's economy is forecast to lead country in growth
, but wages fail to keep pace with inflation
Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
I think someone from the CBC needs to go back to remedial reading class - though I know you were just quoting the article.

According to the Actual Conference Board report (not a CBC news article), Ontario is forecast to have medium growth, and Alberta/Saskatchewan are expected to lead provincial growth.

Not sure why the CBC presented the story the way they did
If you by-pass Toronto-centric CBC and go directly to Conference board of Canada report you get an accurate portrayal of Provincial economies for 2017.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/...h_in_2017.aspx

Quote:
Western Provinces to Lead Economic Growth In 2017
Alberta and Saskatchewan are expected to emerge out of recession and lead the provinces in economic growth this year, according to The Conference Board of Canada’s Provincial Outlook: Spring 2017.
Alberta will have the fastest growing provincial economy this year, with real GDP forecast to increase by 3.3 per cent.
Saskatchewan’s economy is forecast to grow by 2.5 per cent.
British Columbia is forecast to see growth ease this year.
Ontario’s economy will continue to perform well, but it is forecast to lose some speed and grow by 2.3 per cent in 2017.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3070  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 2:13 AM
Martin Mtl's Avatar
Martin Mtl Martin Mtl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,157
Maybe 2.3 percent for a province as big as Ontario is still good enough to make it the economic engine of the country ? At 2.5, a province as small as Saskatchewan surely can't claim the title.

I would think 2.3 for Ontario means a pretty big chunk of the country's growth.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3071  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 2:39 AM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
Maybe 2.3 percent for a province as big as Ontario is still good enough to make it the economic engine of the country ? At 2.5, a province as small as Saskatchewan surely can't claim the title.

I would think 2.3 for Ontario means a pretty big chunk of the country's growth.
In absolute terms it definitely does mean that. The headline is misleading b/c it gives the impression that Ontario is forecast to grow the fastest which is not true. At the same time the AB number also has to be taken in context of what's happened the last few years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3072  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 3:26 AM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 9,140
The most fascinating thing about that article? This paragraph:

Quote:
Corporate profits in Ontario are up significantly. You can tell by the province's corporate tax revenue, which jumped a whopping 16.8 per cent last year, and 19.6 per cent in 2015.
That's some insane growth, considering there was no increase in corporate tax rates. It really goes to show where this growth is being driven.. by expansion of the province's businesses and industries.. in other words, by real and meaningful increases in economic output.

Last edited by 1overcosc; May 30, 2017 at 4:22 AM. Reason: semantics
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3073  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 4:05 AM
shreddog shreddog is offline
Beer me Captain
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In a Van down by the river
Posts: 3,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
... It really goes to show where this growth is being driven.. by expansion of the province's businesses and industries.. in other words, by real and meaningful increases in economic output.
That's partially true ... and good to see in Ontario. Overall tax revenues increased by $9.5B, across the board. Corporate tax growth however was not the largest source of revenue increase ... that was the increase in Electricity Payments in Lieu of taxes from OPG and Hydro1 ($3.1B increase vs $1.8 for corporate tax increase). In fact corporate taxes increased in absolute value the same as personal income taxes and sales taxes, but much less than electricity dues (which some consider a tax too). Source

Anyway, good to see Ontario's economy picking up. Looking forward to a real balanced budget someday.
__________________
It really is later than you think!

Do something about your future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3074  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 5:09 AM
khabibulin khabibulin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Again, don't get why Albertans get so defensive about this. Weird.
You're wrong again. I'm not an Albertan and I'm not defensive. Just setting the record straight when someone misconstrues the facts.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3075  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 11:54 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 13,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
Maybe 2.3 percent for a province as big as Ontario is still good enough to make it the economic engine of the country ? At 2.5, a province as small as Saskatchewan surely can't claim the title.

I would think 2.3 for Ontario means a pretty big chunk of the country's growth.
In historic terms, I would think it barely adequate. After the decade Ontario has been through, it seems very strong. I don't know if we'll ever see a return to 3%+ growth.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3076  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 4:49 PM
ainvan ainvan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto/Vancouver
Posts: 793
Ontario becomes 2nd province to go ahead with $15 an hour minimum wage

Quote:
Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne has announced a plan to increase the provincial minimum wage to $15 an hour by Jan. 1, 2019.

The increase would be phased in over the next 18 months, rising to $14 an hour on Jan. 1, 2018, and then to $15 the following January.

After that, it will rise annually with inflation.

Wynne announced several other proposed changes to workforce rules:

- Equal pay would be mandated for part-time workers doing the same job as a full-time workers.
- After five years with the same employer, the minimum vacation entitlement for workers would rise to three weeks per year.
- Employers would be required to pay a worker three hours of wages if the employer cancels a shift with less than 48 hours notice.
- All workers would be given 10 personal emergency leave days a year, and a minimum of two of those days must be paid. (Currently only employees of large companies are entitled to this.)

Wynne also announced a plan to modernize the rules for creating a union, including the extension of card-based certification to temporary workers, building services workers and community care workers.

CBC

Last edited by ainvan; May 30, 2017 at 6:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3077  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 5:07 PM
Dwils01's Avatar
Dwils01 Dwils01 is offline
Urban Fanactic
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3,117
While $15/hr seems good there brings a lot of others problems with it. Whenever minimum wage went up before the cost of stuff will go up as well especially groceries. I worked at No Frills for a few years and when minimum wage increased to $11.25 the night before we had a whole bunch of price increases to do it the store. With the wage increase I was not do that much better because the price of things also went up with it.

Take California for example. They went to $15/hr and a lot of small businesses had to lay off people or raise their prices a lot to compensate for the extra costs. Some fast food chains replaced the majority of their cashiers with electronic kiosks and some places have burger flipping robots doing the work as well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3078  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 5:48 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwils01 View Post
While $15/hr seems good there brings a lot of others problems with it. Whenever minimum wage went up before the cost of stuff will go up as well especially groceries. I worked at No Frills for a few years and when minimum wage increased to $11.25 the night before we had a whole bunch of price increases to do it the store. With the wage increase I was not do that much better because the price of things also went up with it.
This kind of reaction and rebalancing happens with every economic change. You need to carefully measure the costs before and after to see if people really became better off. You also need to be able to determine the cause of price increases, which is difficult. Maybe food prices went up for some other reason.

Most workers earn more than minimum wage so it is hard for me to see why all of the difference would be consumed by inflation.

It does seem plausible that jobs could be at risk if the value generated by the employee falls below their cost, including more expensive wages. But this isn't really how things have panned out in areas that have raised the minimum. I think the market wages for Wal-Mart employees and the like have fallen far below the value they generate for their employer. Incomes have been more or less flat in Canada even though workers have generated more and more value per hour of labour.

In Ontario the minimum wage went up to $2.25 an hour in 1974. This is $14 in 2017 dollars. Since that time, worker productivity has gone way up. There is nothing really new or dramatic about setting a $15 an hour minimum wage today. Instead we should be worried about how we can do more to make sure that Canadian productivity grows faster and that those gains are shared broadly.
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3079  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 7:35 PM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwils01 View Post
While $15/hr seems good there brings a lot of others problems with it. Whenever minimum wage went up before the cost of stuff will go up as well especially groceries. I worked at No Frills for a few years and when minimum wage increased to $11.25 the night before we had a whole bunch of price increases to do it the store. With the wage increase I was not do that much better because the price of things also went up with it.

Take California for example. They went to $15/hr and a lot of small businesses had to lay off people or raise their prices a lot to compensate for the extra costs. Some fast food chains replaced the majority of their cashiers with electronic kiosks and some places have burger flipping robots doing the work as well.
The effects of this spread way beyond California too. Heck, McDonalds stores all over North America now have those robot kiosks. It makes sense.. if they spend the money to develop these kiosks might as well use them everywhere and save money everywhere.

So if we've already lost a bunch of jobs because of California's wage hike we might as well hike the minimum wage here too.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3080  
Old Posted May 30, 2017, 7:40 PM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 9,140
Also, here's something that's going to be problematic in Ottawa.

The federal government's own salaries for interns and summer students are now going to be below the minimum wage in Ontario. This means that it's now going to be impossible for federal government to fill any internship positions in the national capital unless the Treasury Board hikes the rates considerably.

I'm a federal IT worker and I've been trying to get a summer student to work under me for years now. Every single year the position is never filled, because the salary I have to offer according to Treasury Board and department guidelines is $14.43 an hour. Private sector IT firms in Ottawa will pay summer students $20. So the only people who even bother applying are the stupid incompetent kids who probably got turned down everywhere else. And now that salary is going to be not only sub-market, it will be sub minimum wage. That summer student I'm trying to hire FOR AN IT JOB will now make less money working for me than if he got a job pouring coffee at Tim Hortons.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:49 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.