HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #101  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2018, 8:06 PM
lio45 lio45 is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 42,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
And yeah, I think the first/last month's rent is a pretty good solution for both parties.
I suppose that a tenant could force a landlord in a security deposit jurisdiction to "do it Ontario's way" by saying, on the first day of his last month, "I'm not paying this month, just apply my security deposit to it instead. Oh and BTW I'm leaving the apt behind me in perfect condition, so don't you dare sue me for anything."

Did I ever share my uncle's story with his Alberta security deposit on SSP? It's been many years, but I'm still pretty sure I can get all the details decently right from memory. My uncle was owner/landlord of a couple multifamily properties here, and also a master pipefitter by trade, so he temporarily went to the oil patch while the money over there was good. His Québécois buddies in his line of work over there warned him that he would NEVER be getting his security deposit back upon leaving, because all landlords always kept it regardless of the condition of the apt. My uncle being pretty stubborn swore he would. So he made sure the apartment was impeccable. The landlord still didn't want to return the deposit (she was clearly being dishonest at this point)...

... so he told her essentially "look, you know what, if I'm not getting my money back, I guarantee you I'll do just enough gratuitous damage to the apt that you won't come off ahead financially anyway. (Say the deposit was $1,000, well, he pointed out he was experienced enough at landlording to do about just under $1,000 worth of vandalism (technically "normal wear and tear") before giving the keys back, and still be on the right side of the law.)

Using that tactic, he managed to get at least half his deposit back, a win win situation for the landlord too (better to keep $500 than to keep $1,000 and have $1,000 of damage to the apt) and he won the bet with the guys (who were sure he wouldn't be getting anything back).

Would that work in Japan, you think...?

Anyway - obviously stories like this make the Ontario way pretty appealing from an unbiased POV. As a landlord myself, of course I'd rather have the most rights and protections if possible, but I'm reasonable enough to know where the line should be drawn for the greater good. I'd be thrilled if Quebec wanted to start allowing landlords to hold a month's worth of rent to be applied to the last month of the lease - I think I might even consider voting for the PLQ if they promised that
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2018, 11:00 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Out of curiosity, do you know many Ontario landlords who bother taking ex tenants to small claims court because the apts weren't left in acceptable condition...? My guess (if it's like here) is that no one would do that, as it's nearly always throwing good money (court fees) after bad (you'll never be able to seize anything anyway from that type of tenant).
I guess if they are not willing to go through that process (understandable given the potential legal costs for a few hundred dollars worth of damage) then landlords will just build in an allowance for damage into their calculations of what to ask for the monthly rent. If most/all landlords are doing that then it will end up with slightly higher monthly rents across the market.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2018, 11:08 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,336
Whether or not a tenant gets their security deposit back shouldn't just be up to a decision by the landlord imo. Here it has to be kept separately from the general funds of the landlord and you have to get an itemised bill if they want to keep any of it (much like the system previously described for Chicago). There are some unscrupulous small landlords who don't follow that, especially if they think their tenants won't know their rights or complain to authorities which can often be the case especially for short term migrants and other vulnerable groups unfortunately.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2018, 11:29 PM
lio45 lio45 is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 42,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
I guess if they are not willing to go through that process (understandable given the potential legal costs for a few hundred dollars worth of damage) then landlords will just build in an allowance for damage into their calculations of what to ask for the monthly rent. If most/all landlords are doing that then it will end up with slightly higher monthly rents across the market.
Sure, but as you may have realized, one can make the exact same argument for the opposite situation in places like Japan: if the security deposit always ends up staying in the landlord's bank account regardless of what happens, then it's merely another part of the expected / projected net rental income from the property, which means the effective monthly market rents are therefore lower than they'd otherwise be if deposits and key money weren't considered by landlords a reliable part of their total rental income.

In the end, you're correct that these things always kind of balance themselves - you mostly pay for it one way or another, regardless. But some systems are closer to optimal than others when it comes to rewarding good tenants and penalizing bad tenants, versus simply averaging it out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2018, 11:42 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,336
Yeah, I agree. If tenants in Japan are stumping up thousands of dollars equivalent in 'key fees' then that means that figures for monthly rents there are underestimating the true costs compared with other places that don't have that. Plus presumably it's a big barrier to moving which isn't going to be optimal for a rental market.

I'd rather have low/no fees with those costs being built into the monthly rent but with maybe a reasonable deposit kept independently for damage and a transparent mechanism for returning/withholding that deposit at the end of the tenancy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2018, 7:15 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 39,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
In theory, but in practice it may not be returned. Shawn's experience in Japan matches what I've heard in places where charging a deposit is legal. I've even started doing it myself - so far in FL I'd say of the few cases I've had of tenants leaving, it's been 50/50. If the property's left in reasonable condition, I'd feel like an asshole trying to keep the deposit. But I can see how it would be tempting, given that nothing's ever returned pristine, to just use that as reason to keep the $.

But to answer Pedestrian's question (if it wasn't rhetorical), here in Quebec it's illegal to charge any penny of extra rent ahead of time, or any deposit, or any pets' or keys' money, or anything really other than the one month's rent at a time that you'll be getting. You never get to hold a red cent belonging to your tenants, so if they damage anything, it's up to you to sue them to recover.

Needless to say, many landlords won't bother. It also helps keep income properties really affordable because it's making life less comfortable for landlords. There aren't many other jurisdictions where a kid in my 20s like I was could amass a bunch of multi-story mixed use downtown buildings. It's kind of the best of both worlds provided you're wily enough to try to work around the rules.
I've always gotten my deposits back, the last place they docked $50 off for some extra cleaning. Some places in BC if they allow pets will slap on either an extra $ amount per month or a larger damage deposit. BC has some strong rental rights, like they can only up your rent 4% per year, for years my old building never increased the rent, then skytrain came in the area and they would increase it the maximum amount they could after that every year.

A lot of places will require you to a sign a one year lease and than its month to month after that, the last place I rented though allowed me to get an apartment without a lease, but if i did sign a lease they included cheaper cable TV with a one year lease.
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 7:02 PM
James Bond Agent 007's Avatar
James Bond Agent 007 James Bond Agent 007 is online now
Posh
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
Posts: 21,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
Check out the lyrics at 1:22.

Video Link
Proof that this was accurate!

The rent on this apartment in New York’s Greenwich Village was just $28.43 a month — in 2018
Quote:
When Patricia O’Grady moved into the top floor of a Greenwich Village walk-up in 1955, she and her three roommates helped sweep the hallway in exchange for a discounted rent of $16 a month.

The unit was bare, no more than floor and walls, so the girls, all aspiring actresses, slowly improved it themselves, installing a sink and other modest amenities. While her roommates moved on, O’Grady never left the unit, and for that she received the ultimate New York City prize: unbelievably affordable rent.

Until March, when O’Grady, 84, was fatally struck by a car just a few feet from her home, she paid $28.43 a month for the apartment.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:32 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.