Dangerous Roads within the Lower Mainland

[go_leafs_go02]

Figured we could discuss our most feared locations for poorly designed as well as somewhat scary locations to drive within Metro Vancouver and the Fraser Valley.

This accident on the Vedder Canal bridge - which has been described as the worst collision seen in a long time by News 1130 Kim Seale this morning has shut it down indefinitely to all traffic in the westbound direction.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...ter-off-bridge

Kind of wish the photos provided were a bit higher resoultion.

Anyway, here is my list:

• Pattullo bridge - narrow lanes, sharp corners
  Highway #1 just north of Ironworkers, sharp covers, steep downgrades
  Vedder Canal bridge - narrow bridge, no shoulders, sharp corner with a design speed of likely 90-100 km/h just west of bridge on approach.

[DKaz]

Would you like someone to hold your hands while you're driving so you feel safe? Have you ever driven in Seattle and Portland? They have some 'dangerous' freeways as well. Of course roads can always be safer but I think most drivers can adjust their driving habits when they're on an older road design that requires extra attention, that is if they're not texting or driving with a burger in one hand and a drink in the other or falling asleep behind the wheel like the driver of the minivan near Golden.

Vedder Canal Bridge is perfectly safe for anyone capable of driving in a straight line, I've crossed it over a dozen times in the past couple of months with no trouble whatsoever. I hope you don't get a heart attack when I tell you that a similar accident happened back in 2008 at this same bridge.

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...3-08ddda34df77

Have you driven the QE2 between Edmonton and Calgary during the winter? It'll change your perspective on what's dangerous.

Oh and I drove on the Patullo Bridge on Saturday, travelling the 50km/h speed limit... slow but perfectly safe. Highway #1 north of the Ironworkers, I love driving through the twisties on that stretch. It makes a boring freeway commute a lot more exciting.

[trofirhen]

Surely the Sea-to-Sky Highway ranks right up there, despite all the improvements. Or is it considered a "safe" road now, or NOT part of the Lower Mainland?

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Surely the Sea-to-Sky Highway ranks right up there, despite all the improvements. Or is it considered a "safe" road now, or NOT part of the Lower Mainland?

Nope, right now it's one of the best maintained and marked roads in the lower mainland. At least to Whistler anyways, the Whistler to Pemby section is pretty beat up, and the Duffy Lake Road has no lines for the most part and no reflectors. The redone section is well divided, has inset thermoplastic lines (rainline if you know them) and for really has no dangerous corners except for a stupid one they screwed the geometry on coming into Brittannia Beach.

Outstanding spots for me are the kink in Dewdney Trunk Road in Maple Ridge here. You don't see it coming then the road shifts one lane width. Almost put a 2 tonne truck into a pole on that little bit.

The section of 4th Ave. in Vancouver from Burrard to Balsam. There's too many traffic patterns. Busses/Parking Cars/Left Turns/Through Traffic/Ped Lights, it creates a lot of weaving. If there was no parking lane you'd have at least one lane of consistent movement down the centre, but as is it's one of the few places in the city where I get frusterated trying to keep track of the amount of vehicle movements around me.

[Stingray2004]

Yeah, the Vedder Canal Bridge is a sub-standard relic from yesteryear and was constructed as part of the Chilliwack Bypass from there eastward circa 1959, prior to the construction of the remaining then Hwy "401" in the west.

Narrow lanes and poor sight-lines, with its vertical curve (as well as the horizontal curve leading up to it), have contributed to many accidents over the years on the Vedder Canal Bridge - no room for driver error. Heading WB on a Monday long-weekend, I've experienced going from 120 km/hr and then coming to a screeching halt just before or on the bridge deck itself on several occasions due to the inferior sight-lines. Surprised that more accidents haven't happened at that locale. That said, until Hwy 1 is 6-laned to Chilliwack, we are stuck with it.

Perhaps cautionary "Poor Visibility" advance warning signs could be put into place during the interim.

Another angle from last night's incident:



Source: http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...shColumbiaHome

Another unsafe spot on Hwy 1 is the Capilano River overpass/interchange along the Upper Levels Hwy with no WB on-ramp acceleration lane and a cautionary 60 km/hr EB speed limit at that relatively tight corner. Again, late 1950's sub-standard design.

Too many accidents in that area over the years as well. Just on Monday, another accident involving a dump truck occurred on the sharp EB curve:

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...shColumbiaHome

A new 4-lane WB bridge up-stream (inclusive of an acceleration lane) with improved geometry should do the trick but that's still at least a decade away - as part of continued 6-laning and upgrades.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Yeah, the Vedder Canal Bridge is a sub-standard relic from yesteryear and was constructed as part of the Chilliwack Bypass from there eastward circa 1959, prior to the construction of the remaining then Hwy "401" in the west.

Narrow lanes and poor sight-lines, with its vertical curve (as well as the horizontal curve leading up to it), have contributed to many accidents over the years on the Vedder Canal Bridge - no room for driver error. Heading WB on a Monday long-weekend, I've experienced going from 120 km/hr and then coming to a screeching halt just before or on the bridge deck itself on several occasions due to the inferior sight-lines. Surprised that more accidents haven't happened at that locale. That said, until Hwy 1 is 6-laned to Chilliwack, we are stuck with it.

Perhaps cautionary "Poor Visibility" advance warning signs could be put into place during the interim.

Another angle from last night's incident:



Source: http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...shColumbiaHome

What I don't get is the fact that the alignment just west of the bridge was only put into place approximately 10-12 years ago when that segment was realigned to upgrade it to a full limited-access freeway. Previously, the WB lanes continued straight on before turning towards the south to create a large median between the WB lanes and EB lanes with houses and hobby farms within the "median"

My biggest concern with that bridge actually is travelling EB with the tight turn directly in approach to the bridge, along with the limited visibility looking over the bridge. I've had a few close calls there (I drive it daily) and it just needs a few things:

1) widen the bridge to accommodate proper shoulders at least on the right side.
2) Realign the curve directly west of the bridge so it isn't so harsh.
3) re-grade apporaches so better visiblity on and across the bridge is possible.

Streetview doesn't help illustrate this, mainly because the camera is mounted high above the vehicle - likely a good 5-10 feet above the driver's view (from a car)

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

What I don't get is the fact that the alignment just west of the bridge was only put into place approximately 10-12 years ago when that segment was realigned to upgrade it to a full limited-access freeway. Previously, the WB lanes continued straight on before turning towards the south to create a large median between the WB lanes and EB lanes with houses and hobby farms within the "median"

Better to put everything into context. When the entire "401" was completed circa 1964, the freeway ended at Hwy 11. East of there, the only interchange was the Vedder interchange in Chilliwack - the rest of the 4-lane arterial Hwy 1 comprised numerous cross-roads, access/egress points, and even a Tourism BC stopping point in the centre median between Hwy 11 and the Vedder Canal until circa 1985.

During the early/mid 1970's a couple of interchanges were then added - the first two constructed out of steel (Prest and Lickman?). Then in the late 1970's/early 1980's a few more interchanges were constructed and by 1986 the entire route was upgraded to freeway standard.

The only remaining "blip" was the WB lane deflection west of the Vedder Canal, which was the original 2-lane hwy thru the valley. The WB lane cross-section itself was fine but the narrow two-lane bridge with green guard rails and the farmhouse access points were obviously not. Actually, the gravel base for the new WB lanes was already in place for ~1/2 km (from 1964) but had become overgrown with trees and weeds. Don't know why that was not completed back in the day.

That upgrade should also have been completed by 1986 but MoT decided to wait another 10+ years for whatever reason.

1) widen the bridge to accommodate proper shoulders at least on the right side.

Could be done I guess by adding additional piers to each structure, but is it worth it?

One of the structures was constructed circa 1959 and the other might even be the original span and hence even older. By the time anything happens here both structures will be at least 60 - 70 years old and near the end of their useful lifespan.

Likely more cost efficient to construct a new 6-lane angled structure slightly downstream with gentler curves in terms of the approaches.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Yeah, the Vedder Canal Bridge is a sub-standard relic from yesteryear and was constructed as part of the Chilliwack Bypass from there eastward circa 1959, prior to the construction of the remaining then Hwy "401" in the west.

Narrow lanes and poor sight-lines, with its vertical curve (as well as the horizontal curve leading up to it), have contributed to many accidents over the years on the Vedder Canal Bridge - no room for driver error. Heading WB on a Monday long-weekend, I've experienced going from 120 km/hr and then coming to a screeching halt just before or on the bridge deck itself on several occasions due to the inferior sight-lines. Surprised that more accidents haven't happened at that locale. That said, until Hwy 1 is 6-laned to Chilliwack, we are stuck with it.

Perhaps cautionary "Poor Visibility" advance warning signs could be put into place during the interim.

Well you shouldn't be doing 120km/h considering the speed limit is 100km/h. I'm willing to bet the truck driver was driving too fast.

Originally Posted by Zegby

Thank god for this thread. I totally agree there are actual portions of roads in the lower mainland region that are downright scary. Like "OMG how is this legal" scary. Let me just start off by saying I think the majority of roads and highways in the lower mainland are scary because a) dividing median barriers aren't tall/big enough b) not enough space in between on-coming lanes, so many times I see rocks fly up from opposing lanes hit cars going the opposite direction.

One of my most feared locations

-Western most portion of route 10. Its the hill at the Surrey end. Trucks barrelling down the road, divided by nothing but a double yellow.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

You must not do any or very little mountain driving. Cause that hill does not scare me at all. In fact it is a mole hill in my opinion.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Well you shouldn't be doing 120km/h considering the speed limit is 100km/h. I'm willing to bet the truck driver was driving too fast.

Operating Speed of Hwy 1 east of the PMB is ~120 km/hr and I've always driven at that operating speed unless conditions warrant otherwise. Preeminent North American traffic engineer Martin Parker of Wade-Trim Engineering has also recommended to MoT that the speed limit be bumped up to 110/km/hr along Hwy 1 east of the PMB.

In fact, BC MoT's monitoring station on Hwy 1 just east of Bradner Road in Abbotsford measures "Annual Average Daily Speed".

For the year 2009:

85th percentile: 126 km/hr - fast/left lane

85th percentile: 114 km/hr - slow/right lane

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/trafficdata/...01-01-2009.pdf

Anyone substantially deviating from those operating speeds is a hazard to traffic flow. Again, in my experience, the problem with the Vedder Canal Bridge are the narrow lanes in conjunction with the poor sight-lines.

BCTA President Paul Landry says several major accidents on that bridge in recent years says it is clear something more than driver-error was involved. "It's time to have a close look at road geometry that's been associated with the bridge and so on. If three crashes have occurred on that bridge involving commercial vehicles, I'd say there's a reasonable probability we're going to see more."

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...fatal-accident

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by cabotp

You must not do any or very little mountain driving. Cause that hill does not scare me at all. In fact it is a mole hill in my opinion.

Besides when I tell people I'm a Vancouver driver, it feels like an accomplishment because of the narrow roads and tight turns that hardly exist in other parts of the country, with a few exceptions like Edmonton's High Level bridge... remember being on that bridge at the age of 5 stuck in traffic and my dad was scaring us "I hope this bridge doesn't collapse from all the weight of these cars" and the approaches on both sides are quite twisty as well.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Back to the initial postings in this thread - the Vedder Canal Bridge.

NEWS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
2010TRAN0057-001002

Aug. 31, 2010
Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure

SAFETY ENHANCED ON VEDDER CANAL BRIDGES

CHILLIWACK – Work has begun today on improvements to enhance the safety of the Vedder Canal Bridges on Highway 1 south of Chilliwack, Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Shirley Bond announced today.

“Following a recent incident in this area, and in consultation with my colleagues John Les and Barry Penner, I discussed this incident after which I asked staff to carry out an engineering safety review. The review is now complete and confirms the roadway and bridge meets applicable standards. However, a number of proactive measures were identified to promote greater driver awareness as they approach these crossings, and provide additional protection in the event of a crash.”

Safety enhancements on both the northbound and southbound bridges will include:

· Concrete roadside barriers will be extended 150 metres on the approaches.

· Additional reflectors will be installed on the concrete roadside barriers and bridge guardrails to increase driver awareness.

· A second row of rumble strips will be installed on each approach.

· “Shoulders Ending” warning signs will be installed on each approach.

· White pavement markings will be installed along the shoulders to increase driver awareness.

In addition, concrete barriers with reflectors will be installed along the length of both bridges to reduce the potential of vehicles striking the railings, with engineering and design already under way. These barriers will be installed on both sides of each structure.

“Following the most recent incident, I asked the minister if further measures to enhance safety were possible,” said Chilliwack MLA John Les. “While there was no evidence the bridge was a problem, I’m pleased to see that further precautions are being taken. These upgrades will help keep drivers aware and attentive while approaching and crossing the bridge to help avoid future accidents.”

“While the Vedder Canal Bridge still meets current safety standards, I’m very supportive of the additional safety upgrades,” said Chilliwack-Hope MLA Barry Penner. “Improved highway safety in our area is something I’ve been working on with my colleagues, such as building the first roundabout on a provincial highway in B.C. and also installing the first modern cable barrier in our province.”

Final works are expected to be completed later this fall.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_rele...057-001002.htm

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Back to the initial postings in this thread - the Vedder Canal Bridge.



http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_rele...057-001002.htm

Interesting.

Nothing that really makes it safer. It's a cheap fix, and if you crash, reflectors won't do anything.

Still note that they refuse to do pavement reflectors, but it's a start.

I noted this AM they set up signs and stuff for construction, but I hate these cheap fixes.

The bridge needs widening, the vertical alignment needs levelling, and the curve directly to the west needs to be realigned so the curve isn't so tight.

None of the "solutions" fix that.

[Pennywise604]

This thread is great, since it's all over the map. I'll give my ten most hated places:

The light outisde my house, 64th @ Lyon Rd. in Delta. (Excessive Speeders + Hidden solid red light = very dangerous, bad enforcement, and really scary)

Hwy 99 EB merge from WB Hwy 10 in Delta. (100 km/h speed on 99, but give absolutely no merge lane to get to speed. Those rare Semi drivers that use it, boggles the mind)

Fraser Hwy EB after 168th, 2 lanes to 1 in Surrey. (Right lane merges very quickly, a concrete barrier instead of a gradual merge)

Oak St SB after 70th in Van. (Weavers, enough said)

Knight St NB & SB at 33rd in Van. (no left turn lane/weavers)

Hwy 10 EB @ Scott Rd. (back up to turn left in pm. rush./blind corner)

King George SB after 32nd Av Diver in South Surrey. (useless 2 lane section, too short, and people cut you off)

64th EB after 176th in Cloverdale. (2 lane merge, but people use it mostly to cheat, it ends too quickly, always fun not letting someone in though)

Pattulo Bridge NB & SB (SB weavers before Royal, NB timid drivers are half that mess)

Nordel Way through Delta both ways (EB has no left turn lanes yet at Brooke and Sheppard. Always fun driving along really quick than seeing that f***er put that signal on. WB people tailgate really bad going down that hill. They put radar at the bottom, seems like a pretty smart thing since it's a 60 and people drive over 100 down. But today for example I'm going down at 85 to head SB 91, and a driver flips in behind me and starts basically touching my bumper... I'm pretty sure 25 over is an expensive ticket, you want me to go faster than that. Nope I'll just check my brakes a few times and slow to 60, and it's your fault. )

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Pennywise604

Knight St NB & SB at 33rd in Van. (no left turn lane/weavers)

You would of loved to have driven Knight back in the 70's and early 80's. At that time pretty much all the major cross streets did not have a left turn bay along Knight/Clark

Yup no left bay at 1st, Great Northern, Broadway, 12th (might of had them back then but can't remember), Kingsway, King Edward (might of had them), 41st and 49th (which was only recently just done, about 2 years ago)

I remember when Knight & 41st, Knight & Kingsways had one the highest accident rates. Both were usually in the top 5 if not 1 and 2 at times. They put the left turn bays in and the number of accidents dropped drastically.

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Figured we could discuss our most feared locations for poorly designed as well as somewhat scary locations to drive within Metro Vancouver and the Fraser Valley.

I vote Richmond.

[vanlaw]

Re: Vedder Canal Crossing - I've driven over that many times per year for my whole life, and not once did it occur to me that it felt or looked unsafe.....

[aberdeen5698]

The on-ramp from Boundary Road northbound to Highway 1 is the scariest piece of road for me in the Lower Mainland bar none. It has everything going wrong for it:

- there's no merge lane - joining traffic has to merge immediately with almost no chance to find a gap and match speeds

- the entire ramp from where it leaves Boundary to the freeway itself is uphill curves that limit your visibility, maximum speed, and acceleration

- because the on-ramp goes under the highway and the rises up to meet it, there's almost no opportunity to see the traffic that you need to merge with.

All of this results in a very small time window during which you have to be flooring the accelerator, looking back to check the freeway traffic at the same time you're looking forward to make sure someone hasn't stopped just out of sight around the curve on the on ramp.

Scary. As traffic has been steadily increasing over the years I've started avoiding this ramp and now use the one from 1st Avenue instead.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The on-ramp from Boundary Road northbound to Highway 1 is the scariest piece of road for me in the Lower Mainland bar none. It has everything going wrong for it:

- there's no merge lane - joining traffic has to merge immediately with almost no chance to find a gap and match speeds

- the entire ramp from where it leaves Boundary to the freeway itself is uphill curves that limit your visibility, maximum speed, and acceleration

- because the on-ramp goes under the highway and the rises up to meet it, there's almost no opportunity to see the traffic that you need to merge with.

All of this results in a very small time window during which you have to be flooring the accelerator, looking back to check the freeway traffic at the same time you're looking forward to make sure someone hasn't stopped just out of sight around the curve on the on ramp.

Scary. As traffic has been steadily increasing over the years I've started avoiding this ramp and now use the one from 1st Avenue instead.

Not sure where you are getting off the freeway. If you are getting off at hastings than this wouldn't help.

But considering the area you live in, from what I remember. Have you thought of going down Renfrew to McGill and getting on to Hwy 1 just before the Iron Workers Memorial.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Have you thought of going down Renfrew to McGill and getting on to Hwy 1 just before the Iron Workers Memorial.

I often do that - it depends on the mood I'm in and what direction I'm coming from. I also use Nanaimo -> McGill or Rupert -> 1st.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I often do that - it depends on the mood I'm in and what direction I'm coming from. I also use Nanaimo -> McGill or Rupert -> 1st.

Actually... Boundary / 1st is pretty good. Instead of getting on the Boundary ramp, go down the road a few hundred meters and turn left.

As for the Vedder bridge, if you look at that map you can see the old westbound alignment that used to go along N. Parallel road.

That would've been strange to live in the center of a highway.