Boise Development Thread - Part II

[frankster]

In caption of the renderings in the article it says that the office buildings would likely be taller than the rendering shows.

"If Gardner decides against a soccer stadium, office buildings and covered parking west of the hotel are likely, though the office buildings would probably be taller than the ones in this rendering. GARDNER CO."

[Hawk]

After Sleeping on it, I've decided that I'm leaning more towards the Hotel + MLS soccer stadium, than the hotel + office complex. It's different and I like that. Who would of thought to put a Soccer Stadium right into Downtown's Core!? Plus, Boise needs a professional team like the Seattle Sounders! Who knows, maybe having a soccer team would become so popular that they'd outgrow a stadium the size of the Centurylink Arena.

[jakor21]

Originally Posted by Hawk

After Sleeping on it, I've decided that I'm leaning more towards the Hotel + MLS soccer stadium, than the hotel + office complex. It's different and I like that. Who would of thought to put a Soccer Stadium right into Downtown's Core!? Plus, Boise needs a professional team like the Seattle Sounders! Who knows, maybe having a soccer team would become so popular that they'd outgrow a stadium the size of the Centurylink Arena.

No where in the article does it explicitly state that it will be major league. The proposed stadium of which is rather small could not support the numerical demand of an MLS team.

Here is Alquist's words "The likelihood of building a soccer facility on Parcel B depends on the interest a Major League Soccer team has in putting a minor league team here."

It would be a minor league team if any starting out..

[TreasureValley]

Originally Posted by jakor21

No where in the article does it explicitly state that it will be major league. The proposed stadium of which is rather small could not support the numerical demand of an MLS team.

Here is Alquist's words "The likelihood of building a soccer facility on Parcel B depends on the interest a Major League Soccer team has in putting a minor league team here."

It would be a minor league team if any starting out..

It'd most likely be a USL or NASL team, which are the third/second divisions of US soccer with MLS being the top. That's what has always been discussed whenever soccer and Boise was brought up in the past. The capacity of 5,000 would be about right for those leagues too (Though the NASL tends to be higher than that. It'd fit right in with USL though).

Boise isn't big enough as a city or community to support an MLS team though.

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by TreasureValley

It'd most likely be a USL or NASL team, which are the third/second divisions of US soccer with MLS being the top. That's what has always been discussed whenever soccer and Boise was brought up in the past. The capacity of 5,000 would be about right for those leagues too (Though the NASL tends to be higher than that. It'd fit right in with USL though).

Boise isn't big enough as a city or community to support an MLS team though.

Correct, in no way is this an MLS stadium.

One near-term difficulty in attracting a soccer team is the current state of both minor leagues in soccer. The best geographic fit is USL Pro, but the league appears to be moving in a direction where future teams are located in the same city as their MLS counterparts. There's NASL, but most of those teams are located back east. The only team west of Texas is Edmonton.

It's too bad we didn't have a soccer stadium a year ago, we might've landed a Seattle Sounders FC affiliate USL team.

[BoiseAirport]

I always thought it would be interesting if Boise State, the City of Boise, owners, investors, donors, etc.--with a smorgasbord of money from funds already allocated for stadium renovations, plus a local option sales tax, plus private money raised--somehow all came together to build a fractionally-owned, state of the art, 40,000-seat new stadium for Boise State football, a pro-soccer team, the Idaho Potato Bowl, concerts, events, and urban amenities dotting the surrounding stadium, right on the Boise River close to downtown/campus. Perhaps you could have a turf-swap system similar to University of Phoenix Stadium, switching between a blue football field and a FIFA-certified soccer field.

One possible location would be across the street from Albertsons Stadium (where the Chili's, glass office building, etc. is located). It would require acquiring a lot of land and razing a lot of buildings, but this location is close and easily accessible from the recently built athletic complex and training facilities, and would free up prime real estate on campus for classrooms, student housing, and other planned facilities in the Boise State campus master plan.

If all these stadium-building/renovating resources could somehow be consolidated, you could build a cutting-edge venue with state-of-the-art amenities that all parties involved wouldn't be able to fund independently.

Fun to think about.



(doesn't have to look like that, but I love that design, it's one of my favorite stadiums)

[jthomps4]

Personally, I'd rather see the buildings on parcel B instead of the stadium. I just think the lot size, at least according to the rendering, is too small for a nice stadium. I know the rendering is just an idea, but I don't like the disjointed bleachers and netting similar to what you see at driving ranges. I think there needs to be more space all the way around the field to allow for seating and/or other amenities. It's nice when a retail store or sports bar is incorporated into the stadium as well as allowing for future expansion if a team from a better league comes to Boise.

[jakor21]

I wish they would consider extending 12th street.. just imagine an unfolded grid in that part of downtown.. the buildings wouldn't have to be long and awkward shaped... the streetscape would invite pedestrians and it would give way to possible retail and/or restaurant spaces to evolve.. I feel like it would feel more like downtown Boise.. connected.

[BNF]

Originally Posted by jakor21

I wish they would consider extending 12th street.. just imagine an unfolded grid in that part of downtown.. the buildings wouldn't have to be long and awkward shaped... the streetscape would invite pedestrians and it would give way to possible retail and/or restaurant spaces to evolve.. I feel like it would feel more like downtown Boise.. connected.

I was going to say the exact same thing. I always wished they would extend 10th and 12th. It's a little late for 10th now, but they could still do 12th and start Broad St back up on the West side of JUMP. Mega blocks seem to ruin urban density and walkability.

[Boisebro]

Originally Posted by BNF

I was going to say the exact same thing. I always wished they would extend 10th and 12th. It's a little late for 10th now, but they could still do 12th and start Broad St back up on the West side of JUMP. Mega blocks seem to ruin urban density and walkability.

i'd also like to see 12th extended.

however, the bigger issue has always been how front and myrtle have created those "islands" downtown that aren't as pedestrian-friendly as they could be. even with the success of BoDo, that area still feels cut off from the rest of downtown because you have to walk across 5 lanes of busy traffic to reach it. same with going from the grove to the Library! where you have to cross both front and myrtle to get there. not fun.

it's a shame that it appears to be too late and costly to lower front and myrtle and reconnect them with I-84 on the east side. if memory serves, the original plans did consider having I-184 as a complete connection both east and west.

[Boisebro]

Originally Posted by jthomps4

Personally, I'd rather see the buildings on parcel B instead of the stadium. I just think the lot size, at least according to the rendering, is too small for a nice stadium. I know the rendering is just an idea, but I don't like the disjointed bleachers and netting similar to what you see at driving ranges. I think there needs to be more space all the way around the field to allow for seating and/or other amenities. It's nice when a retail store or sports bar is incorporated into the stadium as well as allowing for future expansion if a team from a better league comes to Boise.

agree. love the idea of a stadium. hate the idea of a stadium on Parcel B. i'd rather see the office towers with some green space or plaza between them instead.

i wonder if the Hawks and Gardner could work together to make the proposed stadium by the river come to fruition? that's still the ideal location, and there's plenty of space on the west side that could use something to help spur development.

[Boisebro]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

I think that rendering is just a placeholder. The hotel shown is definitely not 300+ rooms. It looks to be 5 stories, which with that footprint would be ~75,000 sq ft total.

To put it in perspective, The Inn at 500 is 107 rooms, and that's about 101,400 sq ft.

If Gardner were to build a 300-room hotel with that floorplan, you're probably looking at an 15-20 story building depending on room size.

i see you commented multiple times on the Idaho Statesman article trying to thwart the same 3 NIMBYs that post anti-progress stuff without bothering to read the article.

here's a beer for ya:

[Evo5Boise]

Meh on the soccer stadium idea. Especially at only 5,000 seats. I get fans vs. metropolitan size and status for the population of seating but don't cramp yourself on a premium lot.

[Architecture Buff]

The stadium looks to have been a quick last minute thought. The look is a bad design, and the 2 story chain or netting fence is not the best look on Front. This is a major street leaving downtown, and should be lined with beautiful buildings. The hotel looks like a suburban design thrown in to fill the lot.
The other idea has a parking garage just sitting by itself. They should put a building on top of the parking garage to hide it.
I thought two glass high rises as you enter and leave downtown would be a better design with a 15 story hotel with a in and outdoor pool facing a landscape plaza looking towards the 20 story towers.
The Grove Hotel has 13 floors of hotel and 4 for condos with 240 rooms.
I use to work at a small hotel that used a glass garage door system that opened in the summer to a sun drench patio.
The river design with seating on three sides is a better use for multiple sports and concerts.
So Gardner's preliminary renderings have given us two ideas. I saw Tommy Ahlquist on 8th going to lunch and was so tempted to ask him if he was trying to get the city's (us) feed back by having two designs.
If they don't want to dig another huge hole, they could put the buildings on top of a 5 acre parking garage, and have retail on the 4 edges at ground level.
The July 29th pro soccer game on real grass at Albertson's stadium might give us an idea of how many people will come out to see soccer.
Just some ideas.

[jthomps4]

Originally Posted by Boisebro

i'd also like to see 12th extended.

however, the bigger issue has always been how front and myrtle have created those "islands" downtown that aren't as pedestrian-friendly as they could be. even with the success of BoDo, that area still feels cut off from the rest of downtown because you have to walk across 5 lanes of busy traffic to reach it. same with going from the grove to the Library! where you have to cross both front and myrtle to get there. not fun.

it's a shame that it appears to be too late and costly to lower front and myrtle and reconnect them with I-84 on the east side. if memory serves, the original plans did consider having I-184 as a complete connection both east and west.

what if they made extended 12th st, but as a pedestrian only street like the grove? i don't know if achd would want another traffic light there, but maybe they could tunnel under front like they do under highway 75 in ketchum.

[Hawk]

We've always talked about tunneling, but while thinking I've come up with something that could possibly work- So, Here’s the idea: what about instead of tunneling Front and/or Myrtle, raise the 5 lanes of traffic and turn it into an elevated roadway? Do that and you could extend the connecter closer to Broadway and keep the 60mph speed limit. While under the overpass there could still be 1 or 2 lanes of traffic going 20 or 25mph, thus making it slightly more pedestrian friendly. Kind of like what you’d see in Seattle, or NYC; although I can foresee space being an issue. In the end, Tunneling one or both of the streets seem to be the right answer every time.

[Visualize]

^^^ In terms of function it looks like a good idea, but cities across the country have spent billions of dollars trying to undo the mess they made by creating elevated freeways....Seattle, Boston, San Francisco. They just end up being very obtrusive and really harm street level vibrancy.

[jakor21]

"Bridge" connecting Boise Centre and City Center Plaza.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/0...bad-turns.html

The article doesn't necessarily say the type of connection but I'm assuming a skybridge of sorts??

Ultimately in the future Boise will need a larger facility for convention space.. even with the minor expansion and even upgrading the old one doesn't cut it compared to cities of similar size regarding square footage..

[OhGoodGlavin]

Originally Posted by Visualize

^^^ In terms of function it looks like a good idea, but cities across the country have spent billions of dollars trying to undo the mess they made by creating elevated freeways....Seattle, Boston, San Francisco. They just end up being very obtrusive and really harm street level vibrancy.

And in the case of Boston, while the Big Dig is universally maligned as a boondoggle, the result has been a massive improvement for the city. Removing the Central Artery left a beautiful greenway in the city (the Rose Kennedy Parkway) and reconnected the North End with the rest of the city. It also made it substantially easier for folks from the western suburbs to get to the airport (you used to have to get off in downtown Boston and go through a tunnel) and left the city with a new architectural icon... the Zakim bridge... worth the money

[boisecynic]

Regarding AB's steel rising pic and Main at the transit center exit: Will Main St be only 2 lanes when all is said and done? It sure doesn't look like enough room to squeeze the original 3 lanes back in there, but I can't tell. Anyone have link to the details? I can't recall seeing Main's new configuration explicitly spelled out anywhere.

Regardless, above grade steel represents a big milestone, thanks for the pic.