How PC has Christmas become where you live?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Deepstar

It's funny, being raised from Chinese born parents, we used to have a Christmas tree growing up and more or less celebrated Christmas, although never the religious part. I don't know much about the religious aspect to be honest. I always greet people with Merry Christmas and expect to be greeted the same way.

Hopefully this doesn't start a big ethnic debate, but to me it seems it's like mostly non-denominational, white anglo saxons who care about the greeting the most. Maybe they are worried about offending people like me or maybe offending Hindus and Muslims. I know that it doesn't bother me at all, and the two Muslim guys I work with have no issue. One of them even puts a tree up each year.

Personally, the whole "being offended" is how I differentiate whether an issue is about PC'ness or not. To me, if you want to alter something simply because someone may be offended, that's true PC in the worst kind of sense. Not that people's feelings aren't important, but we should never let them make us lie and pretend something is true when it isn't or vice versa.

But if you want to change something because it isn't accurate, that has nothing to do with being politically correct; that is simply about being correct. If you wanted to conduct a survey about how well people's cars were working and you walked up to them and asked how their Chevy is, most people wouldn't be offended, many would just correct you and say "Oh, I don't have a car", or "Actually, I drive a Kia, or Audi, etc." But even if they're not offended, that fact is not everyone drives a Chevy, so it isn't accurate (correct) to make that assumption.

At the same time, if we were scared to use a term like "Happy Holidays" just because of the risk of offending people, that would be a case of the bad kind of PC...

[ciudad_del_norte]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

This has me wondering. Will we hear from any Reform politicians this year about the "attack on Christmas", or have they all had their medication adjusted?

Gah. Grew up in an evangelical home (no part in that now). One of the most annoying things to me is hearing how incredibly persecuted some Christians think they are because somebody said "Happy Holidays" to them when they bought shoes.

Most people are mature enough to take either statement for what it is, a general wishing of wellness (with no substance because most of the time we say things without any actual care whether that person has a merry christmas or happy holidays.).

[eternallyme]

It seems there is a double standard. Businesses and governments have no problem celebrating Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, etc. but seem to hate Christmas?

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

It seems there is a double standard. Businesses and governments have no problem celebrating Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, etc. but seem to hate Christmas?

What do you mean by hate Christmas? I think the "War on Christmas" narrative is overblown. If Christmas in much of the Western world is slowly becoming more of a cultural holiday than a religious one, I think it has more to do with the secularization of many Western, traditionally Christian, nations. I think because of the Christian heritage of Canada we will never see another winter holiday take precedence (in any way) over Christmas in this country. I grew up in an agonistic home to parents who were raised Catholic and we always celebrated Christmas and Easter. Those two holidays have become so commercialized that I grew up not really understanding the origins of both holidays.

I also don't see anything wrong with saying happy holidays during the holiday season. It just seems logical to me and I usually say it to keep it neutral. However, if I know someone is Christian, I'll say merry Christmas. People who get upset when someone says either happy holidays or merry Christmas need to get over themselves (not referring/responding to you of course, just generally speaking). Funnily enough, it's getting to the point where I'm afraid of upsetting someone if I say happy holidays instead of merry Christmas because of this “war on Christmas by the PC police Christmas haters” rhetoric. It's just so absurd.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I don't really agree with this.

Why would anyone would be offended by being wished Merry Christmas though? Whenever someone wishes me Happy Hanukkah I just say thanks and return the greeting. Anyone who would take offence to something like that is very thinned skinned, in my opinion.

Christmas has become a very secularized holiday anyways - my entire family is comprised of atheists and we still celebrate it, it's a nice excuse to get together.

I generally say "Happy Holidays" - not because I'm terribly concerned with offending non-Christians, but because there's New Years in there as well (which is a holiday I much prefer to Christmas anyways). I'll usually say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukkah" back to anyone who says it to me first though.

I think most people here are pretty ambivalent about the whole "PC" thing. There's a certain element that will use it as an excuse to air their xenophobia - generally a middle aged and older crowd that's refused to integrate into the new demographic realities of the city (the kind that talk of "ethnic ghettos" that don't really exist and "refusing to assimilate" nonsense).

My very Catholic grandparents have been putting out a "Keep 'Christ' in 'Christmas'" sign on their lawn for the past few years. After discussing it with my grandmother, I think it's more about rejecting the commercialization of the holiday than about some "Canada is a Christian country" claptrap (my grandparents are actually pretty progressive as far as elderly Catholics go - and I'm sure growing up in Orange Ontario gives them a sense of the importance of minority inclusion, for what it's worth).

It's funny though. I was raised in the Catholic Church celebrating Christmas, but I really can't stand what the day's become and prefer to keep it out of my house. Which was kind of awkward when my old roommate (who was Jewish) pulled out all of her many Christmas decorations a few years ago. Many of my Muslim, Sikh and Jewish friends get way more excited by the whole thing than I do.

[saffronleaf]

Don't really care about the greeting. But I think Canada should move away from having national holidays celebrating one religion's holy days. A truly multicultural society should just mandate that employers give employees a set number of cultural/religious/spiritual days off, and people of whatever persuasion can take those days off. Atheists and folks who don't identify with any particular culture just get a few additional days off.

[matt602]

Generally around here Christmas is still the same capitalist, consumerist holiday that it always was when I was a kid. Nothing has changed there except the gifts are even more lavish and pointless.

[1overcosc]

My family is of mixed Jewish and Irish origin. The compromise was that we did Christmas but it had to be secular. A Christmas tree with no angel (my mom put a Star of David on top of it instead, it was the talk of the town), a Christmas village with no church, CDs playing Frosty the Snowman and Twelve Days of Christmas but never Little Drummer Boy or Silent Night, etc. Partly because of this Christmas has never really been a religious holiday to me, and I've never had issue with 'Merry Christmas' being used as a greeting to/from a non-Christian.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

What do you mean by hate Christmas? I think the "War on Christmas" narrative is overblown. If Christmas in much of the Western world is slowly becoming more of a cultural holiday than a religious one, I think it has more to do with the secularization of many Western, traditionally Christian, nations. I think because of the Christian heritage of Canada we will never see another winter holiday take precedence (in any way) over Christmas in this country. I grew up in an agonistic home to parents who were raised Catholic and we always celebrated Christmas and Easter. Those two holidays have become so commercialized that I grew up not really understanding the origins of both holidays.

I also don't see anything wrong with saying happy holidays during the holiday season. It just seems logical to me and I usually say it to keep it neutral. However, if I know someone is Christian, I'll say merry Christmas. People who get upset when someone says either happy holidays or merry Christmas need to get over themselves (not referring/responding to you of course, just generally speaking). Funnily enough, it's getting to the point where I'm afraid of upsetting someone if I say happy holidays instead of merry Christmas because of this “war on Christmas by the PC police Christmas haters” rhetoric. It's just so absurd.

It is like they cover up "Christmas" with "holiday" and nothing else.

[Aylmer]

I see this relaxing of the whole 'happy holidays' thing as a relaxing of the need to surgically remove or mandatorily include certain elements in Christmas. I hope that we'll mature to the point where we won't be afraid to sing 'Little Drummer Boy' lest someone should feel like it will force them to believe in Christ or that wishing 'happy holidays' makes baby Jesus cry.

Let's just relaaaax and have a happy whateveryawanacallit and know that NO ONE is trying to convert anyone to anything.

Originally Posted by matt602

Generally around here Christmas is still the same capitalist, consumerist holiday that it always was when I was a kid. Nothing has changed there except the gifts are even more lavish and pointless.

Are you saying that my USB Toast hand warmers are POINTLESS???

[SignalHillHiker]

We had four LGBT floats in this year's Christmas Parade.

The 'Out'port. Gender Creative Kids. St. John's Pride. PFLAGNL.

The only religious float was by the Kinsmen.

On the other hand, guaranteed every church in the city will be packed Christmas Eve.

And HUGE, HUGE, HUGE uproar here about the Province making it legal for bars to open on Christmas Day (which they already were anyway, it's just reflecting the reality on the ground, like when they said bars could stay open until 4 if they stopped serving booze at 3. And you can STILL get vodka/red bull until breakfast.).

[Bcasey25raptor]

I live in Liberal left wing, socialist, communist, anarchist PC to death Vancouver where if you say anything not considered PC you're ostracized beyond belief.

That said, I haven't noticed any PC'ness about christmas here, I see pretty lights, the churches have lights, we have a giant santa hat on Harbour Centre's roof, christmas trees downtown and at capilano suspension bridge, 3 million lights ins Stanley park, christmas on grouse mountain.

I'm going to give this one a big question mark and say I don't know if this city is PC on christmas or not.

This is a biggie since this city is PC on everything. Even the mayor has acknowledged this is unceded coast salish territory and we even renamed the Queen Charlotte Islands to haida gwaii and the Salish Sea is now official.

[Trevor3]

Our local radio station has switched to 100% Christmas music and will be such until the 27th or so, and then Christmas music will be eased out of rotation until disappearing on January 6th. They'll run promos of sleigh bells and the morning show guy pretending to be Santa for the duration with a "hohoho Merry Christmas" tagline. Santa Claus rides around town on a motorcycle all day on Christmas Eve to entertain shoppers and kids and wishes people a Merry Christmas.

I have no issue with "Happy Holidays", it is the holiday season and people celebrate different holidays during the season. If someone or some business wants to run their ads with Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings, that's fine by me, but it shouldn't be forced. If somebody wants to wish me a happy Hanukkah that's fantastic.

But hearing about stuff like the 'Holiday' tree... that's just a phony attempt at being PC. The tree is an obvious Christmas tradition, let it be what it is. Christmas is supposed to be about peace on earth and acceptance of others, so on and so forth, even if you choose to have a religious bent this time of year.

I remember a doctor that moved here from the middle-east and was very excited to learn about Christmas and celebrate it with his family. So my friend's family (we were kids at the time) invited them for Christmas dinner and introduced them to all the traditions, etc... It was a great way for them to become part of the community and get to know the neighbours kind of thing.

[SignalHillHiker]

The missus from 99.1 Hits FM has an Orthodox Christian BF from Eastern Europe. She's introducing him to Christmas here - same idea. It's all new to him. His traditions are all Orthodox Christmas ("Old Christmas" it's called here, lots still celebrate it then in NL) and Orthodox New Year a little later.

We carry just about every convo from here on to FB.



Not even joking, BTW.

Newfoundland Pony (left), Newfoundland Dog (right):


City of STJs

[vid]

It isn't PC in Thunder Bay at all. There are very, very few people who don't celebrate Christmas specifically. While religion isn't the emphasis anymore, it's clear which holiday is coming up here.

That said, in spite of how "Christmas" it is, there are still people who have been duped by Fox News into thinking Christmas is under attack and feel the need to explode at anyone who doesn't explicitly wish them a Merry Christmas during every interaction in December. Those people are assholes.

[logan5]

Thinking about this topic during my Friday night booze run. There doesn't look to be any attempt by the many retailers along Main street to cater to Christmas. Even at the corporate chains - Starbucks, JJ Bean and 7/11, there's little effort put into the Christmas thing. I don't think it has anything to do politically correct or incorrect though, this neighbourhood just doesn't care about Christmas.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

I think the "War on Christmas" narrative is overblown. If Christmas in much of the Western world is slowly becoming more of a cultural holiday than a religious one, I think it has more to do with the secularization of many Western, traditionally Christian, nations.

Outside of the US, I agree, and that includes Canada.

What I find interesting in this thread is that everyone who has made a comment about Christmas becoming watered down with political correctness is the parent of a school-aged child. For the rest of us childless types, Christmas seems, more or less, unchanged.

This makes me wonder whether the "attack" on Christmas isn't being done in the name of religion, or even multiculturalism, but is part of that general trend of being over-protective of children.

In this case, they are "protecting" children whose families are not going to take part in the usual rituals of Christmas, not only because of their religion/belief/culture, but because the family may not be well off or the family might be dysfunctional.

I'm not sure if overprotective parenting/schooling counts as political correctness. The usual PC tactics can be used for those ends, though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by drew

Our son is in nursery school at an elementary in Wolseley.

They have a "winter concert" planned, which I assume is the "PC'd" Christmas concert. His class will be singing a song, but it has nothing to do with winter or Christmas. So I have no idea what to think.

This is totally absurd.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The elementary school I went to made national headlines a couple years ago for replacing its Christmas concert with a generic 'holiday celebration' in February.

This is also absurd, and I am not a conservative person at all when it comes to Christmas.

I don't have any issue with ''happy holidays'' as long as it's not an explicit thing about avoiding the word Christmas just because it might offend someone.

For example, calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is just stupid. An office Christmas party re-labelled as a holiday celebration or something also makes me cringe.

That said, I probably say happy holidays (passez des belies fêtes) a lot more than merry Christmas. For the same reason that others have said: it covers the festive period including New Year's.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Don't really care about the greeting. But I think Canada should move away from having national holidays celebrating one religion's holy days. A truly multicultural society should just mandate that employers give employees a set number of cultural/religious/spiritual days off, and people of whatever persuasion can take those days off. Atheists and folks who don't identify with any particular culture just get a few additional days off.

I admit to wondering about this lately. I wonder if we will ever get there though.

It's a lot more complicated than what you are making it out to be. Common holidays aren't just about everyday work, they are use to determine dates to be avoided for events like conferences, stuff like when parliament is in session, etc. Also think of the education calendar.